Hi oh knowledgable ones,

I am looking for a new xc race hardtail and am contemplating whether the extra dosh for carbon over scandium is worth the pennies.

In terms of a scandium frame I am considering a Kula, as for carbon not too sure.

Pros, cons and opinions gratefully received…!

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Wow – how did you manage that?! Is that a new Kula?

Plenty carbon frames break, as do steel, alu, ti…

OP – there is more to a frame than the material.

My mate did it. Race at the weekend. Hit a route, he went over the bars (broke his shoulder), the bike folded. …[mod]edited[/mod]..He is getting another one though (hopefully)

getting another one? **** dat!

Think I’d avoid another too…?!

Carbon is amazing IMO. Light yet stiff in the right places and so compliant.

At least my Merida Carbon FKX is anyway, can’t comment on the others. Can’t wait to try a 0.nine and teh frame arrived on Tuesday in the UK.

There’s some ‘Hasa’ carbon frames on eBay for around £300, they’re light, and apparently just the same frame Fuji, Full Dynamix and Massi use, but without decals. If I wanted a race hardtail I’d be tempted!

Otherwise the Be-One Blue is lighter than a Scale for a lot less money!

I wouldn’t touch another Kula after that, it’s not just one dodgy weld!

Plenty carbon frames break, as do steel, alu, ti…

Though from what I’ve seen, “scandium” aluminium frames tend to break a lot easier than carbon ones at the same weight.

Yeah, I don’t think I would go for one again, but it did not cause him to fall so he wants another one as its a nice frame. Pics have been sent to kona to see what they say.

Can’t go wrong with carbon, i have a scale, very comfy and light.

hopster – let me know if you end up selling yr Merida…

Dodgy welds? I’d go for shit pilot!

Current (Identical Kula) has been going fine for a year now, even doing some slightly silly stuff. Previous one (also Scandium) has three years with me, and is currently still been given a weekly beating by it’s current owner.

Any frame carries risk, two of my riding mates have just cracked two 15yo steel Dynatechs, and two 5yo alloy Giants. Luckily neither was as catastrophic as the above.

On my first carbon frame this year, loving it so far.

i wouldnt say a shit pilot! hes a class act on the downhills, a week in the alps and you would see! Plus it did ten under the ben the week before. …[mod]edited[/mod]…

i bought a scandium frame – then got told it was aluminium! 😯

The Lapierre Scandium hardtail looks the dog’s nads.
Never ridden (or snapped) one though.

“Scandium” is an element used in an Aluminium alloy that makes it better in some way.

Yes it’s still mostly Aluminium, but most Al frames are alloyed with other elements.

Can’t see the pic but if he’s hit something so hard he’s broken bones I don’t think dodgy welds would be my first suspect as to why the frame’s broken! FFS! 🙄

As above, there’s more important things to a frame than material. If you like the Kona then get it.

He hit the ground hard enough to break bones, that isn’t that hard to do.

even identical frames have different weld penetration dougal

He didnt break his shoulder he went over the bars after the frame colapsed when riding over the root. hit the ground and separated his shoulder and ligument damage

sat on the fence here thats not the first ive seen do that.

Kona i believe have changed tubing suppliers in the last couple of years on most of there frames , not sure if the kulas included , but they used to use easton tubes which tough as old boots. changed to own brand which mhas been causing alot of failures of other frames !

on the same lines id like to know is better QC possible on carbon frames , ie are the flaws of welding technique taken out or does the cure process have its own flaws ?

I have done welding materials and processes at uni so i know a wee bit about that but as for carbon we have done very very little other than “carbon fibre is a composite material”

oh and fwiw ive had a frame fail in the same mode and i got pitched over the bars also …only i did it circus style and landed on my feet !

Can anyone point me to another pic I might be able to see?

Welds are always gonna be the weakest point in a frame, but stuff breaks when you crash it. I’ve never broken bones but I’ve written off frames and forks without doing so, along with a couple of wheels and the odd pair of bars over the years, through crashes. If something breaks in a crash it’s generally accepted that it’s rider error rather than manufacturing error.

He crashed = rider error, unless the bike broke then he crashed. No matter what he’s done in the alps. Maybe he was having an off day or trying too hard?

if you read my post above he was thrown over the bars when his frame colapsed.

Picture has been taken down as it is ongoing with kona atm and no point in aggrivating things needlessly.

MS wasnt thinking when he posted them !

double post !

So, rider error then. Don’t think many XC race frames are warrantied for crashes!

Carbon frames can break as well, and I’d rather have a nice cleanish bit metal in me than fibres of carbon.

“So, rider error then. Don’t think many XC race frames are warrantied for crashes! “

no reader error ….

its not my frame anyway so off to do some work ….

It really does sound as if this frame was abused or crashed previously, it is a very odd failure mode under normal conditions. I wonder what Kona have to say about this…

Re: Kona tubing; the previous generation of scandium Kulas were manufactured by a German firm (the name of which escapes me right now) and shipped to Taiwan to be painted. The current ones have the whole shebang done in the Far East.

Photo for those asking…

Nevermind, don’t want to jeopardise Neil’s chance of getting a new one.

cheers dougal.

frame was 3 weeks old …. think of the bathtub mode of failure cycle

it either fails right at the start or fails right at the end of its life …once you get past the initial period then it can go on for a fair while

the pic has been deleted

have kona got upset???

i bust my kona muni mula frame a few years back admitedly on a set of dirt jumps so was out of warranty but paligap used to offer 1/3 price of my old frame off a new one, which was nice

Not so much that Kona got upset, but it’s best to assume they might and only offer a reduced price replacement rather than a warranty replacement.

In the pursuit of fairness, I can name five people who’ve cracked eight Scott carbon frames between them. I know lots of people have success with them, but that’s just two many for my tastes.

to be fair dougal … without going to far into it i think i could name someone whos had most of those 5 issues with scott 😉

there isnt a frame around that doesnt crack or snap . its the nature of the beast.

We are mountain bikers we abuse bikes BUT in my honest opinion from seeing the kona i cant see how they can take any other stance than weld failure …. hope pro 3 xcs and sids both without a mark on them , kcnc scandium bars in mind condition . hardly a mark on the bike. The failure isnt really that consistant with a riding into failure. Its more of a “landed a rad narly jump failure”

Ah sorry tinsy, that’s a different order to what MS said above. And I misread your “when” as a “then”.

Plus the “over” the bars, I’d have thought he’d go more “under” if you see what I mean.

Pretty painful failure mode if it was a fall as a result of a crack rather than a crack as a result of a fall!

So before anyone passes anymore judgement on the longevity and strength of carbon frames who here has owned or ridden one let alone broken one?

if by owned you mean

then yes thats mine and me …. i bought it cause i couldnt get hold of an anthem X. so based on a test ride that proved the fact that it provided about as much rear end comfort as my old 98 heckler but in hardtail format and less side to side flex 😀 !

lovely bike to ride, only had it 3 months though….had some teething issues with fit(Q factor) mind but spot on now!

Hey trail rat love my Carbon FLX and just selling mine to buy a 09 model before investing in a 0.nine next year when the production frames start arriving.

Got a carbon Vertex here – very comfortable and very stiff when mashing the pedals. Not owned it that long but I don’t expect an imminent carbon failure, I’ve been using carbon boats for 20 years and carbon forks and cranks on bikes for a while with no cause for concern.

Ive had a Scott Scale 30 for last 3 years and thought it was fantastic. Unforunately the L/H sear stay cracked (not sure whilst riding or in transit) whilst in Nepal.

Ive got a repair kit from carbonology coming and will give that a try. Its only £40 so if it doesnt work then nothing lost really (apart from the cost of a new frame – Scott have kindly offered a 10% doscount for crash replacement making a new Scale frame a very reasonable £1337!!)

Cheaper buying a new bike! Just strip it down and sell all the parts!

I have a scale 30 to. But if you did not crash it why would it be a crash replacement? Is that still not under warranty?

I had a 2001 Trek OCLV hardtail, only sold it a couple of years ago, and it never broke. Also had an S-Works Carbon hardtail, Fuel Ex 9.5 and 3 carbon Epics, so what’s that… 6 carbon MTBs, none of them have ever shown any signs of breaking.