Innocent until proven guilty

Its a fair point but they have to have a credible alibi /explanation

Package undamaged, forks internals broken with tool marks on them that were not there before and no oil in the box

Whatever the explanation here IT IS NOT THAT

It sounds very much like you have been told you can’t prove anything, and threatened somehow into shutting up and not naming them.

Name and shame.

If they want to sue for defamation/slander/whatever, then the onus is on them to prove that you knowingly lied to cause them financial harm. If you state facts like perfectly service forks were sent one way and came back “broken” then that’s not a lie.

Sounds very fishy to me. I don’t know who to avoid, other than eBay.

Interesting variation though.
Thought the usual version was that a scammer would send a recorded letter, just to get proof of a signed-for packet being returned?
Ebay/paypal don’t give 2 hoots about UK laws for distance selling, and rely entirely on a scrap of paper from Royal Mail.

Given the facts,
Sounds like a job for Mulder and Scully.

As above. You can’t PROVE anything, but you’ve fallen for the buyer and shop’s explanation.

You said yourself what might have happened, your good were forks stripped and then returned “broken”. If the forks had lost all of their oil in transit, wouldn’t you think the buyer would have complained about them loosing their oil in transit?

Next time this shop does this, and it will, they’ll be slightly more careful and throw some oil in the box before taking a photo of them “un-boxing” someone else’s “damaged” forks.

*sorry about the ” ”

If they want to sue for defamation/slander/whatever, then the onus is on them to prove that you knowingly lied to cause them financial harm. If you state facts like perfectly service forks were sent one way and came back “broken” then that’s not a lie.

Sadly that’s just not the case. Defamation does not require intent to cause them financial harm, just a statement which cannot be proved true with the potential to damage their reputation. And even a flat statement naming the firm and the facts of the sending and returning of the forks, in the context of this thread, contains the innuendo that they have defrauded him.

I’d love to see this outfit named and shamed. But the OP (and, to some extent, STW Towers) would be on dodgy ground if it was done.

Surely liable and slander are lies.
If you state what you know to be true you have done nothing wrong .

I feel sorry for the OP, but he’s right- he can prove nothing, and further comments here (this name and shame idea) could land him in a lot of bother. If a place is ruthless enough to do this, then they’re ruthless enough to pursue legal action- and I’m sure they’re aware of this thread, btw.

Now, I’m just saying, but if someone was to think up a way to, shall we say, tempt them into doing this again, and could find an absolute way to prove it that couldn’t be detected by the shop, then that would be a fine thing. But as the shop are presumably aware of this thread, then if someone here thinks of a method, they’d be best just doing it and reporting back. The OP has left enough crumbs for someone to work out who bought them.

If a place is ruthless enough to do this, then they’re ruthless enough to pursue legal action

I doubt it as most people will be unlikely to believe their account and not all publicity is good

Bet they would also be worried other folk would appear with similar tales.
they probably dont want anyone to look at the list of things they have recently repaired either

If someone else posted the link to the ebay user/transaction then there could be no come back (especially if they did not make any accusations).

There is an ebay account using the OPs email address however I can’t view it as not transaction history with them.

i somehow managed to post up in the wrong thread 😳

Milky – I recently sold a frame on Ebay. Before it went I checked the bushes and had a couple of worn ones replaced, I checked it with my trusty LBS and we agreed that there was no play in any of the linkages.

Upon receipt the buyer contacted me complaining that it required new bushes after a lot of to-ing and fro-ing I agreed to refund £30.00 to make the problem go away. I remain unconvinced and feel I’ve been had.

I only share this as I noticed the name of the buyer on the courier’s papework was of a shop specializing in 2nd hand parts – I’ll wager a m onths wages its the same shop!

Sounds like you and milky need to get emailing each other Tops! With an agreement not to share each others secrets- just in case.

Tops5 Which shop was it ?

(You have made no accusations against them other than told a story about a resolved issue with a sale)

Need to be careful here – Will see if Im right 1st

It sounds very much like you have been told you can’t prove anything, and threatened somehow into shutting up and not naming them.

😕

This + 1

What forks are they? I’m searching completed listings so I know who they are to avoid naming and shaming dealing with them as I tend to buy/sell my forks on eBay sometimes..

personally I think you can prove that the purchaser did it . You say the forks were serviced and fine when you sent them by post . logically there is no way the postie opens the forks and takes the oil. The forks arrive they accept receipt, logically if oil everywhere they would notice . They return the forks with extra tool marks unworking with different internals. So either the postie did it or they did . In my book that is proof beyond reasonable doubt they did it . In this dispute the standard of proof will be on the balance of probabilities , It is clearly more probable than not that the purchaser has done you over , it is clearly more probable than not that the business were involved they used their shop account for the sending and sell the items that went missing and have the damaged items that were swooped in .

Or, playing devils advocate…..
The OP is at it and sold a knackered set of forks in the hope the buyer would think they were ok and this thread is his way of backing up his lies?

Do you have a Proof of Delivery? How long did they take to arrive? How long did it take to report an issue?

Only, if the forks took a week to get there, I’d be more inclined to think “the postman did it” than if they arrived the next day; ditto if it took the recipient ten minutes to go “hey, faulty” and kick them back.

Occam’s Razor though, innit. Let’s say the courier was the culprit. What logic is there in opening a package, stripping a fork, replacing the internals with matching broken ones, packaging it all back together, and then completing the delivery?

Who is more likely to have broken parts lying around which match your fork; a shop which buys and sells used parts or Postman Pat?

You shipped them, freshly serviced and full of oil. They received them in an allegedly uncompromised box, devoid of oil and broken. Based on evidence presented here it’s my considered opinion that (much like your forks) one of you is full of shit. Assuming it’s not you and you didn’t send them via David Blaine Courier Services, the guy who you sold them to could be innocent but if so then they were knobbled whilst in his care.

Thread pruning?

How would the postie know what was in the package? And if he did open it, it just so happened that he has the same pair with duff parts?

Perhaps Royal Mail are employing Temporary Postman Pratt again?

Have you checked whether the Vietnamese have radar coverage of your forks?

Ebay will side with the buyer, I sold a rear shock on Ebay, the buyer claimed that after he had destickered it it wouldn’t hold air.
I disputed the claim as he couldn’t prove it was the one I posted, but if he was to post it back I’d refund his payment. I never received the shock back AND Ebay refunded his payment.
Nobbers all of them.

Scamper – Member
Perhaps Royal Mail are employing Temporary Postman Pratt again?

So you’re saying an employee of royal mail opened a box, found some forks. then pulled out his adjustable spanner took out the internals, then replaced them. sealed up the box and let them go?

Yeah right, 🙄

You’re a mug OP for falling for their lies!

Swapping fork internals ain’t too far removed from swapping price tags 🙂

You’re a mug OP for falling for their lies!

a bit harsh, but essentially my reaction to the OP’s update.

Very much doubt the postie did it,

So said postie knows the following:
a.That the package is actual a set of forks.
b.They happen to also ride a mountain bike.
c.Your forks happen to be exactly the same as the broken forks on his bike.
d.Postie also has the correct tools and knowledge to disassemble both sets of forks to switch the internals.
e.Manages to do all this whilst on his round.
f.Also manages to open the package and reseal it without it obviously being tampered.
g.Also if going to all the above hassle to switch stuff why not chuck the old oil back in to ‘Really’ cover their tracks.

If said postie can do all this he’s wasted in current role , they should be some kind espionage role.
My moneys still on the obvious culprit, the guy you sold them too.
Just all a bit to fishy.