Scaffold predicament... « Singletrack Forum

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Scaffold predicament...

36 posts & 20 voices | Started 10 months ago by santacoops | Latest reply from andrewh

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santacoops - Member

We've been away for the past 2 days and came back to find the scaffolding gone from the back of the house after (3 weeks) the claims assessor advises (2 weeks ago) that the roof isn't insured. The subcontracted scaffold chaps entered my back garden after knocking on next door's door asking for the key to open up the back alley (normally super secured behind our houses). The neighbours gave the key to them and therefore took their scaffolding. Have they trespassed as they didn't give us a call to say they were doing it?

N.B. bit gutted as i was going to use their scaffold to fix it myself. but still, is it illegal... as such?

Posted 10 months ago #
maccruiskeen - Member

I've read that 3 times - has your roof been stolen, or your scaffolding been stolen, or neither, or both?

Posted 10 months ago #
santacoops - Member

Haha, feel like the people that had the scaffolding up came along to our land and took it without letting us know therefore walked over our land/unlocked a gate that was secure to get in to the garden.

Posted 10 months ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

i was going to use their scaffold to fix it myself

So you were going to trespass on their scaffolding ? ......no wonder they took it away.

Posted 10 months ago #
flip - Member

So you were going to trespass on their scaffolding ? ......no wonder they took it away.

+1

Double standards

Posted 10 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

And you normally pay per day for the scaffolding

Posted 10 months ago #
nickjb - Member

If was trespass you'll have a claim for any damage done which sounds like none at all. I doubt you'll be able to claim against having to rent some more scaffolding

Posted 10 months ago #
Moses - Member

Trespass (in England, anyway) is a civil offence, not criminal.
So sue them, see how far you get.

What's the big deal? They put some scaffolding up, then were presumably told the job was cancelled, they removed the scaffolding. What's wrong with that?

Posted 10 months ago #
santacoops - Member

Yes of course double standards but it was all paid by ins co until they took it away, it was sat there for 3 wks doing nothing, nobody was out of pocket. I should have done it myself sooner admittedly i jusxt don't take too kondly to some guys trouncing my garden while i'm not in with no note or call.

Posted 10 months ago #
santacoops - Member

What's the big deal?

They entered my locked garden by way of getting a key from my neighbour without letting me know.

Posted 10 months ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

it was sat there for 3 wks doing nothing, nobody was out of pocket

How do you know ? Did the scaffolding company tell you that they didn't need it anywhere else ?

I believe that trespass can be a criminal offence and that laws concerning this were amended a few years back. But I'm not sure that you have a very strong case as no one forced their way in - they were given a key, and they only took their own property. I don't think you can take someone to court simply because they've walked into your garden.

Having said that, it does seem a bit off that they just came and took it without prior arrangement. But then I don't know the facts, and your insurance company might have off-hired it and told them to collect it.

Posted 10 months ago #
Holyzeus - Member

it was sat there for 3 wks doing nothing

It doesn't work that way with scaffold, your essentially hiring it.
3 weeks is quite a while in their eyes.

Posted 10 months ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

I need to do something about my mindset that tells me, there's always a more interesting bit to half a story

Posted 10 months ago #
santacoops - Member

Yeah fair enough they may have been out of pocket just by the fact it was sitting there but to be fair, i'm just a bit fked off about it all and wanted to vent my anger on a mountain bike forum. On reflection...

Posted 10 months ago #
poly - Member

Wow, people really do get upset about the silliest things! I'm sure your contract with the insurance company and theirs with the scaffolding company gives them an explicit or implicit right to retrieve their property from your garden at any time without asking your permission.

Now the alternative is that you are preventing them from collecting their scaffolding (YOU not the insurer) and so you would be liable for the hire charges from the first time they try to get your permission until they actually get their property back... then I can imagine a new STW thread "How dare they, bla bla bla, they could simply have collected it - one of the neighbours would have opened the gate etc).

Posted 10 months ago #
santacoops - Member

poly, i wouldn't have stopped them, in fact, couldn't care less how much they charged if i even wanted to withhold their stuff, my point is, no call letting me know therefore no enter my property thankyou very much and therefore where do i stand as they didn't ask my permission. However, i should know better to post this sort of thread on STW as it would usually atracts the adverse to what i asked for in the way of advice. May i point you towards my previous post also, i'm not that
upset about the silliest things
.

Posted 10 months ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

no call letting me know therefore no enter my property thankyou very much and therefore where do i stand as they didn't ask my permission

What do you want to do about it ? Do you want them to put it back up ? Do you want money off them ? Or do you just want to create a fuss ? If you just want to create a fuss then I suggest you phone them up and give them a good piece of your mind. Good luck.

btw, did they even have your phone number ? I'm guessing they dealt with your insurance company.

Posted 10 months ago #
Brycey - Member

Speaking as someone who runs a load of scaffolders I'm stunned they asked your neighbours rather than kicked in your door, rifled through your socks drawer, ate some of your food, stripped the scaffolding and dragged it through the kitchen before banging in a timesheet claiming 10 hours for 3 hours work. You should consider yourself lucky!

PS In most cases the money is in putting up and taking down the scaffold rather than there being much hire revenue.

Posted 10 months ago #
santacoops - Member

ernie - someone got into my garden that was locked and didn't tell me. They went next door to get a key knowing i was out and didn't call me. They had my number. Unreasonable?

Posted 10 months ago #
TheLittlestHobo - Member

Owt for nowt brigade. Move on folks he wont expect a reasonable response

Posted 10 months ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

ernie - someone got into my garden that was locked and didn't tell me. They went next door to get a key knowing i was out and didn't call me. They had my number. Unreasonable?

Why did your neighbour give them the key then ? Why did your neighbour not phone you up before giving them the key ? Why do let your neighbour have a key if you are not happy how with the judgement calls they make when deciding who to give to ? Sounds to me that you have an issue with your neighbour, and who they allow to use your key.

Unreasonable ? Yes, I did say "it does seem a bit off that they just came and took it without prior arrangement" Although once your neighbour was prepared to give them your key, then it was imo reasonable for scaffolders to take their scaffolding, if they had been refused then that would have been a whole new ball game.

But as I say, I don't know the full facts. And you still haven't answered my question - what do you want to do about it ?

.

Move on folks he wont expect a reasonable response

Clearly a thread like this invites people to give their opinions, otherwise why bother ? So what do you mean by "reasonable response" ......solely an opinion which the OP would like to hear ? I not sure that would be very constructive for the OP - he could simply just listen to himself. And therefore it wouldn't amount to a "reasonable response". IMHO

Posted 10 months ago #
santacoops - Member

Wow! Thanks for the response ernie. To be fair, i was angry for about an hour yesterday and vented it on here, the wife said she felt like the house was unsecure while we were away to which i agreed. But to be honest, couldn't give a floating fart now, nothing was damaged, just stuff wasn't in the places it should have been in the garden when we got back home (full wheelbarrow turned over etc). I won't be doing anything about it, just wanted to know if anyone else thought it was bad practice. Its not the way i'd do business anyway. Cheers for your thoughts though.

Posted 10 months ago #
maccruiskeen - Member

the wife said she felt like the house was unsecure while we were away to which i agreed

It would have been far less secure with the scaffolding left up while the house house unattended

Posted 10 months ago #
thomthumb - Member

the house was unsecure while we were away to which i agreed.

don't hand out spare keys then

Posted 10 months ago #
joao3v16 - Member

my window cleaner enters my back garden every couple of months without a note or a phone call requesting permission ...

Posted 10 months ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

.......just wanted to know if anyone else thought it was bad practice. Its not the way i'd do business anyway.

Yes, not good imo, but this has to seen in the context that scaffolders are only about 80% human. So if they didn't behave in the way highlighted in Brycey's post, then I reckon you had a result.

Seriously mate, in my experience scaffolders are no more than well trained human/ape hybrids. Generally lovely blokes, but don't expect them to have the intellectual capacity to handle anything more complex than the pages of the Daily star (the Sun is far too highbrow for them) or trust them not to steal, or be in the presence of a female - they have strong animal urges. But they're always happy cheerful feckers - I always get on with them fine.

Posted 10 months ago #
Stoner - Member

I always get on with them fine.

You should hear what they say about chippies!

Posted 10 months ago #
McHamish - Member

I always get on with them fine.

That's only because they don't know what you really think of them.

Posted 10 months ago #
santacoops - Member

Fair enough ernie. However, now you raise a separate issue, whats the other 20% consist of?

Posted 10 months ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

That's only because they don't know what you really think of them.

'Course they do - everyone knows that about scaffolders. And I don't think I've met a scaffolder who would deny it.

No idea what the 20% is santacoops - it's definitely not homo sapien though.

Posted 10 months ago #
Sandwich - Member

Yes watch out if you're going to kick up with scaffolders. They spend all day heaving heavy bits of wood and steel about. One company I knew issued all their managers with clip-on ties so the lovely blokes couldn't hold and hit!!

Posted 10 months ago #
gooner69 - Member

Followed this thread with interest seeing as I am the owner of a small scaffold contracting business.

There are undoubtedly a few knuckledraggers still involved, but your average "scaff" has more onsite training and qualifications than just about everybody else in the building trade. Unfortunatley they (we) are subject to the highest risk and therefore the highest scrutiny.

But on domestic properties, with no HSE/site managment nearby things can regress quickly

To the OP, most people are glad to be shot of it. Nobody actually "wants" scaffold to their house. Its just a requirement for another job. I would be quite happy if my guys turned up, got key access via the neighbours and completed the appointed task as requested. The cost of 3 (usually) guys and the lorry driving to "no access" jobs is a right pita.

Posted 10 months ago #
allthepies - Member

So how much damage did they do to your garden/house when removing their gear ?

Posted 10 months ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

your average "scaff" has more onsite training and qualifications than just about everybody else in the building trade.

Well you guys have certainly come a long way ! ...... when I first started working, scaffolding required no qualifications at all and anyone was allowed to do it. Then it was decided that scaffolding was far too important to be done by those without any training or qualifications, and quite right too - the situation was nothing short of scandalous.

Now all scaffolders are required to have full qualifications, a pair of shorts, and an abundance of tattoos - otherwise they're off the site.

Posted 10 months ago #
Brycey - Member

Going off on a bit of a tangent here from the OP, but Gooner69 is this...

But on domestic properties, with no HSE/site managment nearby things can regress quickly

...something you reckon you manage to avoid? And is this...

but your average "scaff" has more onsite training and qualifications than just about everybody else in the building trade.

...something you do without compromise (SG4:10, edge protection on vehicles, etc).

Not having a dig, just genuinly curious as I work for one of the big contractors and I constantly have the fact that "the small local boys cut H&S/training/supervision corners and that's why they're so cheap" rammed down my throat. Usually as an excuse for not winning a job.

Posted 10 months ago #