Why should the NHS have to fund IVF? Having babies is a lifestyle choice.

I used to think the NHS was pants as all my dealings with them had been drawn out to get where I wanted{fixed}, but then I moved to Canada and realised how good the NHS is, I can’t get a GP as there is a shortage due to the fact they can all go down to the US of A and become millionaires, wait times in A and E are even bigger also

a private company being paid to manage the NHS might not be a bad thing but full take over I would imagine will end up expensive one day
you can get a car reprayed for hundreds, an insurance company can only get a car resprayed for thousands

Surrounded By Zulus – Member
Why should the NHS have to fund IVF? Having babies is a lifestyle choice.

I don’t know why but they do like they also fund repairing you after injury from cycling, football and hundreds of other lifestyle choices you make. They also fund the treatment of illnesses caused by lifestyle choices such as drinking, smoking and over eating. I think they try to create a fair system.

craigxxl, my gut feeling is that the situation you would get is one of vertical integration, the insurance companies owning the hospitals or at the very least having arrangements with specific hospitals. So if the hospital screws up you’ll still be in the same place, your care is not the driving force, your wallet is. Yes publicity is an issue, but that can be solved with money and PR staff.

The current situation sees hospitals having to pay for things they don’t necessarily need because of the way PFI works, politicians and their agendas have got us to where we are and they are determined to take us where it suits them. And the worst part, until the NHS has gone we won’t know how good it is.

I don’t know why but they do

More specifically some parts of the NHS do, some don’t, as they say postcode lottery.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13670615

You still have no choice in the hospital you go to

Yes you can you can ask to referred to certain hospitals.

The problem with PFI is that the Trusts they were offered to didn’t understand them and rushed into them much the same way as the public went crazy on easy loans. These were offered when the economy was still doing well and the government should have been funding the building of new hospitals out of the budget. This was probably because the government then knew the NHS had become a problem that couldn’t be controlled. If you remember all the big NHS spending increases announced at the budgets came with strings attached with improved performance. Unfortunately most of those improvements came in ways to cheat targets and added bureaucracy rather than just improved patient care.

Why should the NHS have to fund IVF? Having babies is a lifestyle choice.

Why not have a serious conversation with those trying to conceive and needing IVF, instead of making silly provocative comments?

Oh, and I assume you don’t expect your kids to receive any health care at all, as after all; they’re only a ‘lifestyle choice’, right?

You really are such a silly Billy sometimes, Glupton. Do you not think before you say stuff? Do you revel in the fact others think you’re a wally?

You still have no choice in the hospital you go to

When I had to have an operation to have a hernia repaired, I was given the choice of four different hospitals.

If I’m being taken to a hospital by Drac or one of his colleagues I couldn’t care less where they’re taking me – I’m happy for them to make that decision.

Oh and:

Why should the NHS have to fund IVF? Having babies is a lifestyle choice.

Need I say it? No, not really. But, oh go on then…

Poor Troll.

Drac, you can ask, but for how many is the theory a practical reality. If you are in hospital and are going to be there for a few days would you want to be near friends and family or hundreds of miles away, for some people in an scheduled situation then there may be some choice, but depending on the follow up needed…

If you have a fall are you going to consult the brochures to see which A&E your going to want to go to? When you think a lot of admissions are via A&E, choice falls apart.

Elf, Glupton may be being provocative, but the question remains, should IVF be paid for out of the public purse, would the money be better spent on treating those who are ill rather than on creating new lives?

Elf – I dont ask you to agree with me. But why should a National HEALTH Service fund lifestyle choices?

If you have a fall are you going to consult the brochures to see which A&E your going to want to go to? When you think a lot of admissions are via A&E, choice falls apart.

Hint: The “E” in A&E stands for “EMERGEN-****-CY” Are you really that concerned about which hospital is going to fix you when you’re lying broken in a stretcher. Or if you’ve had a heart attack and Drac’s risking his own life to get you to the nearest A&E in the “golden hour”*

*Apologies if that phrase isn’t being used anymore, but I think you’ll know what I’m talking about.

should IVF be paid for out of the public purse, would the money be better spent on treating those who are ill rather than on creating new lives?

So you wouldn’t say that infertility is an illness? It may have been caused by any number of factors. You think people who get one IVF cycle free do it instead of choosing the natural method? I’d say that the people who get to conceive via IVF consider the life they are helped to create far more precious than many of those who conceive naturally. (that’s not meant to be inflammatory towards any parents).

Jesus, the shite some people spout when IVF is discussed. A cycle of IVF costs, what, £3000? A fraction of what it costs to fix a seriously injured drunk driver, a mountain biker that has to be airlifted from a trail centre in Scotland, and multiple other examples (all of which I’m happy to fun btw).

should IVF be paid for out of the public purse, would the money be better spent on treating those who are ill rather than on creating new lives?

Might as well get rid of the maternity unit too, plastic surgery – it’s fixed who cares if it looks pretty or not and plenty more could go departments could go too with that attitude.
My friends who went for IVF were, and still are, the perfect couple although now a family. Both teachers, ensured they had a loving and well provided home to bring a child into but went it came to it couldn’t do so. If you’re telling me they can’t have treatment so they can have kids but someone who does drugs, drinks and smoke can have all the treatment they require then it’s a very sad and selfish world.

Elf – I dont ask you to agree with me. But why should a National HEALTH Service fund lifestyle choices?

It’s not just disagreeing with you Smee – it’s just a case of pointing out the shite you spout – with an alarmingly increasing frequency of late. TBH, I can’t figure out why you can’t just be a fun troll sometimes – what kick do you get from inflammatory posts?

Never mind, I think you realise yourself that as ever you can’t help yourself and “SurroundedByZulus” will go the same road that glupton, trollingzoofighter, smee and whatever other monikers you’ve had.

DD – stop trolling.

I dont agree with IVF being funded by the NHS, never have never will.

DD – stop trolling.

LOLz. Heh. Oh teh ironing etc.

I dont agree with IVF being funded by the NHS, never have never will.

And I’ve just laid out (a few reasons, I mean, I can go on if you want) why I think it should. So, are you willing to actually argue your point or as usual, make silly statements and run away when the world tells you how silly they are?

Go on then DD – you tell me why it should be funded by the NHS.

Why should a very expensive procedure with no direct positive health benefit to the patient (the female parent) which has at the very best a 1in 4 chance of success be funded by the NHS? Pretty sure that money could be put to a more appropriate use – say providing a knee or hip replacement for someone who cant walk due to pain. Cost is about the same.

I dont agree with IVF being funded by the NHS, never have never will.

Your ‘beliefs’ are based on ignorance, not knowledge though.

Tell you what; instead of spouting ill-informed blinkered shite, why not go talk to some people who’ve had IVF? Why not ask about their experiences trying to have children of their own? The pain they go through, the sadness, the depression etc. Have you ever spoken to anyone who’s gone through that? Cos if you have, then you must surely be a right insensitive person to come out with crap like that.

And have you stopped for one moment to consider just how insensitive your comments might seem to people on here who have gone through or are about to go through IVF?

But why should a National HEALTH Service fund lifestyle choices?

Because as a taxpayer I’m more than happy for the NHS to fund treatment for people wanting to have children.

So shut up.

Why should a very expensive procedure with no direct positive health benefit to the patient (the female parent)

Christ on a bike you really are ignorant, aren’t you?

Seriously, I know you’re a massive attention seeker and I can relate to that not a problem in itself, but you’re just spouting complete rubbish now, unless this is yet another troll.

Go and talk to people. Listen to what they have to say. Learn something. Don’t wallow in ignorance.

Surrounded By Zulus – Member
Go on then DD – you tell me why it should be funded by the NHS.

Why should a very expensive procedure with no direct positive health benefit to the patient (the female parent) which has at the very best a 1in 4 chance of success be funded by the NHS? Pretty sure that money could be put to a more appropriate use – say providing a knee or hip replacement for someone who cant walk due to pain. Cost is about the same.
The amount of money spent on raising a child and therefore contributing to the economy will far outweigh the money spent on the IVF treatment.

Elfinsafety – your manner is offensive.

I have a sister inlaw who went through 9 cycles of IVF – 3 funded by the NHS, 6 funded by herself. Looking back, she wishes she hadnt bothered as she has now adopted and wishes she’d done it a lot sooner.

My view on this matter will not change.

Craigxxi – that’s about the best joke i’ve ever heard. What does the government pay for education per year? Is it not something like £14000/head/year. What happens if the kids becomes a dole dodger, or god forbid goes to work in the public sector?

Why should a very expensive procedure with no direct positive health benefit to the patient

Well, Elfin’s just BOOMED that piece of shite out of the water for me. Of course it has positive health outcomes for the patient(s). Are you going to explain why this particular “lifestyle” choice should not be funded (even though reduced fertility is hardly anything that anybody has “chosen”) whereas your knackered knees from years of being the most amazing runner, rower, cyclist etc etc should be fixed?

Pretty sure that money could be put to a more appropriate use – say providing a knee or hip replacement for someone who cant walk due to pain.

Oh come on Smee, stop using straw men – are you saying that the NHS doesn’t fund knee or hip replacements?

And have you stopped for one moment to consider just how insensitive your comments..etc

I don’t think Smee/Glupton/TZF/SBZ has ever stopped for one moment to consider the sensitivity or lack of thereof of any of his comments. Ever.

Elfinsafety – your manner is offensive.

What, and yours isn’t? 😯

Do you know anyone who’s gone through IVF who have then concieved and had children of their own? I do. Their treatment was funded by the NHS, in most of the cases, and they’ll forever be indebted to the NHS as without it they’d never have had the opportunity.

I’d like to see you stand in front of them and say what you feel safe to say on here.

Anyway, enough already. You have the potential to learn, to become less ignorant. Embrace that, it’s a wonderful thing.

Surrounded By Zulus – Member

My view on this matter will not change.

‘S ok glupton. You’re as entitled as you ever are to be totally and utterly wrong. Again.

The thing I love about this place is that when people can come up with no rational, logical or sensible arguement they resort to personal abuse.

Nobody has told me why IVF should be paid for by the NHS yet though.

I read that the poorest households in the UK pay in the region of £250,000 over a lifetime through direct and indirect taxes and that wasn’t accounting for inflation.

Surrounded By Zulus – Member
The thing I love about this place is that when people can come up with no rational, logical or sensible arguement they resort to personal abuse.

Nobody has told me why IVF should be paid for by the NHS yet though.

You’ve had more than enough reasons it’s just your lack of understanding that is getting in your way.

Fred – he’s allowed an opinion, just like you are, and he’s expressed it politely and without personal attacks.

Even if your own opinions are often shite Fred, it doesn’t people free rein to call you names (its your attitude that normally results in that)

Seeing as I’m too thick to find them, can you list them for me please?

Simply, because the NHS treats all alike regardless of lifestyle choices, if you rule against one lifestyle then all lifestyles must be excluded.

Pretty simple, do you understand?

Fred – he’s allowed an opinion

Well he shoon’t be.

Even if your own opinions are often shite Fred

They’re not actually. It’s your interpretation system that’s flawed.

Seeing as I’m too thick to find them, can you list them for me please?

I’ve given you the answer to your problem; go and talk to people who’ve had successful IVF on the NHS. Discuss your views with them.

That’s probbly the best way to become informed.

It’s quite simple really; it’s an approach most folk take…

Well that’s nonsense for a start. Just to rub it in, I think I’ll use the IVF postcode lottery as an example of some people being more equal than others in the treatment that is available to them on the NHS.

Fred – why exclude the majoriy of people that receive IVF treatment on the NHS from that discussion?

Oh dear

It appears that this thread has been bigshittered.

There is a debate to be had about what the NHS should, can, will, ought to offer, but I fear the egos present will preclude any sensible chat..

Actually bollocks to it in fact I’m an idiot for getting sucked in.

Well done SBZ; you must be very proud of yourself. What a winner you are.

I am happy to pay for the NHS, but also believe in Private Insurance (and have had it and used it) plus previously have paid for private treatment from my own pocket (which incidently was cheaper than the Insurance Company previously paid…).

I like our system, and having seen many different systems around the world, feel ours is up there with the best – but then all systems have problems. A bit like democracy, it has its problems, but compared to the alternatives…

The IVF postcode lottery. BOOM. Another straw man from SBZ. Of course the postcode lottery is wrong. But that’s not a factor in the argument for or against.

It’s too easy sometimes.

See there’s the difference Fred – He gained a direct personal benefit from his treatment. As in HE was ill, HE received treatment, and he appears to have got better due to that treatment. Not exactly the same now is it?

DD – have you been to the pub this afternoon? Because your arguing like a drunk.

crikey, change it from within maaaan 🙂 Join the debate.

EDIT

DD – have you been to the pub this afternoon? Because your arguing like a drunk.

No Smee. Sorry if it’s not working out well for you. Is it time for a thread asking the mods to delete your log-in yet? How many would that be?

So, where do you stop with the lifestyle argument?

60 year old post menopausal woman wants a child – do you offer her IVF? If not, why not?

Surrounded By Zulus – Member
Well that’s nonsense for a start. Just to rub it in, I think I’ll use the IVF postcode lottery as an example of some people being more equal than others in the treatment that is available to them on the NHS.

I think you find your information out of date as NHS trusts are been forced to comply with NICE guidelines on fertility treatment. That must really make your blood boil.