Santa Cruz Heckler Frame £899 – Orange 5 Frame £1399

Thats £500 more for the orange frame!!

and lets be realistic, the Orange aint much/any better than the Heckler.

Now I know WHY its more expensive – cos its made in Halifax, yorkshire. not in the US

But my question is, how the hell do Orange get away with their frame prices?????

i concur………….. 😀

Because some people will still pay extra for that “Made in Britain” badge.

I love my heckler, might need a new one soon, I will spend the difference on a nice shock and funky colour, or get seduced and either get 5AM or Alpine build which is a much better bargin

I would love to “buy british” I was even born in Halifax (where Orange is)
but I cant justify the price of their frames no matter how much I want one.

Their full builds are not as rediculously priced as the frames alone, but if you dont want a full build your screwed

Hecklers are made in taiwan not the US.
Orange make less per frame on a 5 than santa cruz do a heckler.
Dry yer eyes you big girl.

orande need to make a 29r five.

Having test rode both I purchased an Orange 5, the sizing was much better for me and it was alot less cramped to ride. I wish the heckler fitted me better but it just didn’t.

Thanfully the bike shop guy recognised the price differential and chucked in the full performance pack for free, free maxle and coloured rims, all to keep me interested but to be honest the five was the best fit not the fact it was British

Edit @ton I so wish they would, makes sense

As above, SC not USA made, they have different geometry, they have abasic float r shock opposed to the RP23xv, the Orange is finished better. They’re not the same product, no matter how much people wished they were.

Rorschach – no, I just wont buy one.
Orange should move their production to Taiwan aswell if thats the case

just design/develop and assemble them in Fax

I’ve had 5s for nearly a decade. Just changed for an SC. There really is a premium on orange bikes and I’m not sure Its worth it. I can’t offer a comparison as I’ve gone from 5 to SL. Both bikes are totally Awesome(tm).

*5 will be for sale when I get roundtuit

Move production to Taiwan? We should be keeping all the manufacturing we can in this country. As rorschach said, Orange make less profit on a five than sc do on a heckler.

jools182 – Member

“Move production to Taiwan? We should be keeping all the manufacturing we can in this country. As rorschach said, Orange make less profit on a five than sc do on a heckler. “

And despute these low margins they still sell a pretty expensive product. So all things considered they should probably move manufacturing to taiwan 😉 Either that or if UK manufacturing is the be all and end all they should bring the other frame production to halifax- after all they’re already charging a premium price for those.

(where are we getting these margin numbers from btw? That’s not the sort of information that’s easy to come by)

The finish on Santa Cruzes is pretty bad though and the Five paint is good, that’s a fact. And someone else pointed out that the shock is better in the Five.

I can sit on the fence cos I wouldn’t buy either 😉

Santa Cruz Heckler Frame £899 – Orange 5 Frame £1399

The Turner 5 Spot’s expensive then?

Heckler + Powdercoat + Shock Upgrade = less than orange

Heckler is a great price for a good frame regardless of the price of the competition.

“Heckler + Powdercoat + Shock Upgrade = less than orange”

Yep good point

Heckler is a funny shape though. I loved mine, but it was just too short. C’dale prophet is lot better fit. Should have sold that as a frame only.

Heckler + powdercoat = void warranty (from a dyed un the wool heckler fan)

You sure about that? Nothing to say so in the warranty I can find (it says it doesn’t cover custom finishes but that’s not the same as custom finishes voiding the warranty- just means they won’t recompense you for your paintwork if the frame cracks from under it)

Move manufacturing but keep the design; IME that doesnt work as the different areas of production are linked in so many ways. I could go on but why bother, few people care. Service based econermy… lol

/very happy with Orange Blood 🙂

Be careful with powder coating; baking process can result in cracks down-the-line if not controlled. Safer just to paint.

Taking this further, Santa Cruz are a bloody rip off as they come out of the same factories as Giant Iguanas 😉

You sure about that? Nothing to say so in the warranty I can find (it says it doesn’t cover custom finishes but that’s not the same as custom finishes voiding the warranty- just means they won’t recompense you for your paintwork if the frame cracks from under it)

yep. Mates nomad needed re-doing and made enqs with jungle. Powder coating invalidates the warranty. In fact the only way to get it re sprayed is to get jungle to send it to Argos in bristol- and they don’t do powdercoat!

they come out of the same factories as Giant Iguanas

but without the hats, obviously;

C’dale prophet is lot better fit. Should have sold that as a frame only.

I looked at the Five and Heckler frames and then bought a Prophet 2 complete bike for less (£1100). Swapped bits around and upgraded stuff though.
Pity they stopped making them.

Orange can’t keep up with demand for some of their bikes,and that probably includes the 5.If you market your brand towards the “premium” end of the market then you don’t charge poundstretcher prices.
Its up to the buying public to decide if they believe the marketing(hype) and that the product is worth the premium.
So long as there is high demand then Orange will charge what the market will stand.They are a business which means profit,not to be symapathetic with some bikers who may desire their product but don’t have that amount of cash to spend.

even the Heckler is a rip-off, when you can buy a Carerra Banshee for £500:

(the heckler isn’t a rip-off, nor is the 5, but i hope you get my point)

The 5 is orange’s top bike and they manufacture it (tubes rolled on the thighs of virgins etc) and sell it at a price to suit, don’t forget SCs blt and nomads are £1800+ and their range topping carbon versions are really silly money! Heckler is an old design they are making and selling as cheap as possible.

Still quite fancy another heckler tho.

even the Heckler is a rip-off, when you can buy a Carerra Banshee for £500:

(the heckler isn’t a rip-off, nor is the 5, but i hope you get my point)

Heckler is an old design they are making and selling as cheap as possible.

The same could be said of the Orange 5 apart from the cheap bit

The same could be said of the Orange 5 apart from the cheap bit

true true, shall we say the heckler is a superseded design then?

whereas the Orange is a ‘well proven’ one?

Hecklers are Taiwanese produced. Cheap labour, world wide distribution.
Fives are UK produced. Expensive labour, practically all UK distribution.
I’m sure Orange would love to sell Fives at £899 but when they’re only making around 1000 a year, you don’t have that privilege.
You either want one or you don’t. Some people pay £15 for a pair of jeans, some pay £150. You want it, you pay for it.

Why are people always so massively bent out of shape about this all the time.

They make a product for a given price and it’s up to you whether you want it or not.

If you know better than the poor sods that have been silly enough to buy one then fair enough, but why be so insulted by it if someone else wants one?

I should probably add;

I don’t have a problem with what any bike company charges for their product – they’re running a business and will charge what they think the market will bear. Their costs and business models are all different and the prices reflect that.

I think it’s great that Orange seem to work on the basis of ‘design overseas’ build in the UK principle in defiance of most other ‘UK brands’. Their prices reflect their extra build costs.

I do wonder how long before they start looking at carbon and whether they’ll be able to continue to manufacture in the uk when that comes?

Orange make less per frame on a 5 than Santa Cruz do on a Heckler.

Isn’t this just poor-business or inefficient production techniques on the part of Orange then?? 😉

…just playing devil’s advocate. I actually really like Orange as a brand and ride a P7 as my winter bike. They are very expensive compared with much of the competion though, including other British brands (e.g. Cotic Hemlock, Pace RC405, Whyte T-120 etc).

Why are people always so massively bent out of shape about this all the time.

They make a product for a given price and it’s up to you whether you want it or not.

Good point, I agree Gary.

So what if sinfgle pivot is an old design?

It works…I don’t see benefits in the “better” new designs…my Heckler isn’t exactly slowing me down.

Zestys etc are just single pivots anyway.

er, no they’re not.

Oooh right enough. I blame last night’s work Xmas party.

But heaps of other designs are just single pivots. And Giants for instance act like single pivots but have the added complexity and weight of a dual-pivot design.