I’ve been self-employed in construction for the last 30 years and must say I enjoy the freedom it allows me. However I’ve met with someone who is after a ‘hands-on’ site manager and he has expressed his interest in offering me a position albeit as an employee. We did met up and ive aaid od like to stay self-employed at least for the 3 month trial period then decide how to proceed.
I’ve told him my day-rate and although i dont think its excessive he’s told me that he thinks it a little expensive and will make me a counter offer..i don’t know, however, whether this will come on the form of a salary or not. SMy queztion to you is how much does/should a skilled tradesman/site manager be earning?

Pension? Sick pay? Bonus? Days holiday? Flexible hours? Notice period?

Do you usually lower your day rate for big stretches of work?

I do, as I usually end up earning more anyway.

Consider tax/NI/pension impact and also any issues if you had to go back to previous work, i.e maintaining your contacts.
I did similar, better work balance, but less flexibility and money.

If it’s as a permanent employee they’re not going to offer you a day rate. I’d assume a salary will be about half your day rate, but you get the ‘perks’ that come with being employed.

If you can get a salaried job for the same as your day rate you’ve either massive underpriced your day rate or they’re a mental employer and you should bite their hand off.

Depend largely on size and type of project and location, £40k PA would be a starting point I’d guess.

If it’s as a permanent employee they’re not going to offer you a day rate.

He says in the OP he’s doing a 3-month trial as a contractor on a day rate.

He says in the OP he‘s doing wants to do a 3-month trial as a contractor on a day rate.

Depends a lot on what’s going on in the housing market…at the moment it looks like a correction so salary growth in construction will level off. Just sounds like typical negotiations.

He says in the OP he’s doing wants to do a 3-month trial as a contractor on a day rate.

I read it that the fella’s gonna come back with an alternative rate. Makes sense for both sides if it’s a trial kinda thing.

Tymbian what will the role include?
Your day rate is about 150/160 at a guess? That on the books is obviously 40k/year with associated perks that come with the “employed” position.
What size/value projects, which sector, what budget, will you have free reign over ordering, how many men on site, will you have to do much hands on? I’ve got associated rates for all trades at the moment which are current and up to date in our area.

Wrightyson..pm’d you.

Replied.

@ Wrightyson..nothing received..

Employment protection – limited in first two years, just your notice period really
Pension – yup but depends on employer contributions
PAYE – much less flexibility in tax planning

Personally I would see job security in a permament role as a bit of a fake benefit in that I don’t think it really exists these days. Maybe the employer thinks post Brexit it’s going to be harder to recruit decent staff and wages are likely to rise so he wants to get you onboard now ?

Tried several more times using the messenger widget. It apparently won’t work so I sent it via your email add hopefully…

For a 3 month role ask what the internal charge rate is for the role if you are doing all your own tax etc. as a contract, see what you can negotiate off that. As for permanent vs contract somebody did give me the good advice that a permanent job is only as permanent as your notice period (especially in a sector like construction) there are better pay off’s but when it goes wrong/down people are out. Job security is what you can walk into when you leave 😉

Where do you live and what sector? Are you ltd company or cis? Also 18 per hour paye is about 35k. Need to factor in holiday pay so work your day rate from that.

Personally I would see job security in a permanent role as a bit of a fake benefit in that I don’t think it really exists these days.[/I]

This, 100%.

And easy way to look at a short-term day rate is that ought to be about 1% of the salary for the job as a perm role.

So £400pd for a £40k job equals £400*220days=£88000

£40000+(employer NI 13.8%)+(pension 4%)=£47120/220days = £214

The salary calc also needs to take into account if you’re on a months notice then any figure needs to include that, along with sick, maternity/paternity etc.

Although for a 3 month contract there’ll be an element of ‘discount’.

I’m based in Oxfordshire and currently CIS registered.

“I’d assume a salary will be about half your day rate…“

This. Based on many years working in finance supporting white-collar engineering, contractors’ hourly rates tended to be about double the raw rate for an employee (which was salary / 2080h).

“Personally I would see job security in a permament role as a bit of a fake benefit in that I don’t think it really exists these days.“

This. I was with the aforementioned engineering company for ten years. When the work slowed up I was made redundant. The only “security” comes from the hope that giving you some redundancy is a slight disincentive to getting rid of you. It was only statutory redundancy and equated to less than 2% of the total pay I’d received in those ten years. Bugger-all really. I would have been waaaay better off as a contractor for those ten years.

“Your day rate is about 150/160 at a guess?“

You don’t live in the south at a guess 😀 The last few tradespeople I’ve dealt with have been £300-£500 per day.

You don’t live in the south at a guess The last few tradespeople I’ve dealt with have been £300-£500 per day.

I’m bang in the Midlands. You’re paying way over the odds for tradesman at anything above 300/day. I can get you get you someone to travel for that.

I would say the salary that will make you change from being self employed to employee is whatever you feel is appropriate to account for the fact you’ll be employed all the time, not having to spend your own time chasing work etc.

If you’re happy where you are, and someone wants to recruit you, it’s up to them to make you happy with whatever offer they can make. Without knowing how busy you manage to keep yourself being self employed, how much time you have to spend on admin etc. I can’t really say what would be an appropriate salary for you.

We did met up and ive aaid od like to stay self-employed at least for the 3 month trial period then decide how to proceed.

You don’t decide if you are self-employed or not. The tax man does. Be careful of IR35 and how you arrange this “trial period”

Better to do a temp contract as an employee, throw in flexible working terms. Then if you do decide to go for it, you have already got some service in terms of employment rights etc.

My 2p would be …

Unless you’re desperate for work, I would stick to the rate you stated for the 3 month period, you can then work out if you want the position as a permanent employee.If he thinks it’s too expensive then he’s welcome to find someone else to do the work for what he wants to pay and you wish him well and walk away.
It’s only 3 months and you both get to work out if it will work in the longer term – seems very sensible to me.

Don’t get pushed into a permanent position if what you like is the freedom.
Good experienced people in any industry are hard to find.

I would have been waaaay better off as a contractor for those ten years.

only if you know that no contractors got the boot before you did, and being not on the payroll didn’t affect any mortgage applications etc.

Hmm, fair point about the mortgage I guess, but when I took it out we were still in the era of abundant lending and self-cert craziness so it probably would have been OK.

Contractors certainly came & went in that period, but I wouldn’t know how many were pushed, and how many simply walked when they got better offers.

But the general point was about job security, and I don’t believe it really exists any more.

*advice

When you negotiate you usually ask for more than you expect to get. For example if i wanted to work for an hourly rate of £25 i might ask for an hourly rate of £30 and settle for less than i asked for.