My brother in law has just had a pretty serious road accident – he’s not in great shape but the police seemed pretty convinced that he survived as he was in an A6 – a pretty safe car by all accounts.

Anyway, the upshot is we’re seriously considering getting a new vehicle with safety primarily in mind for us and our 2 young kids. She currently drives a 2004 Berlingo, which feels pretty flimsy, and the NCAP tests seem to back that impression up. I’ve got a van, which we’ll be keeping.

The car doesn’t do many miles – an 18 mile each way commute twice a week, plus leisure use. We never use it around town. So economy/fuel type is not that much of a priority. Neither is performance/exciting handling, we’re used to slow cars and are happy with that. Estate or saloon is fine.

So I guess I’m looking for an old underpowered luxo-barge, if such a thing exists! I quite like the look of the Saab 95 – I had a couple of classic 900 turbos in the past that I really enjoyed. If we can go smaller without compromising safety, we’d be happy to do that.

Budget is low/bangernomic – ideally less than £3K.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Volvo S60/Saab 93/95,

Bigger, older cars aren’t always safer than smaller modern ones.

9-5 then, Ian, 9-3 at a push or even the slightly older 900s (you know, the one you got a lift to Sleepless in 2003, Threntham..)

Can’t speak for Volvos, they come up a lot smaller than you’d think these days.

And if looking at older cars, make sure you get one that hasn’t been previously crashed as this may compromise the safety, especially if not fixed to a good standard.

We got a Mazda (2007 model) as, at the time, it had one of the most favourable NCAP ratings in it’s class. Then it was almost written off when it was one month old… 🙁

This website may help you

http://www.euroncap.com/results.aspx

Can’t speak for Volvos, they come up a lot smaller than you’d think these days.

3k gets you a high miler early new shape V70 or a very, very tidy late edition V90. The latter is very much a luxo-barge, with a boot the size of a medium sized country! Safe as houses, too.

Something like a Toyota Auris from a few years ago?

NCAP 5* a crazy amount of air bags – ugly as **** though

On NCAP the 900 comes up pretty low, the 9-3 isn’t rated for passenger safety (important for kids). Depending on age, the newer 9-5 looks pretty good though.

Don’t forget to consider the child seat too – the difference between good and bad ones is astonishing at times.

Bigger, older cars aren’t always safer than smaller modern ones.

I’m sure this is true – although NCAP ratings for larger cars seem higher, by and large.

However, the price of old big cars is tempting, compared to the price of new small ones, especially when we don’t do big miles and have many years of NCB.

sure thing CF – I was thinking of models like the V50 or even V60 where the boot – important to me and I suspect OP as well – are really pretty dinksy.

But sure V70s are all you’d want in terms of lugging bits around.

Saab 9-3 hatch. I owned an X-plate one from new. Airbags, side bars, impact bumpers the lot. Mine was written off when a lorry T- boned me. No visible damage on the inside at all. The old style 9-5 estates are lovely too.

A mate who’s a forensic engineer for Nissan reckoned that the differences in safety ratings between cars is marginal in comparison with differences in driving: anticipation, speed, positioning etc. A monster Mercedes didn’t save Lady Di.

So I guess I’m looking for an old underpowered luxo-barge, if such a thing exists!

Yeah it’s not size that’s important. In fact bigger could be worse, as you’ve got more kinetic energy.

NCAP is your friend here I think. Also check what safety kit is installed when you look at a car. My B6 Passat for example has rear curtain airbags as an option. You can tell if they were specced or not by the airbag logo on the C pillar.

A monster Mercedes didn’t save Lady Di.

Saved that security guard though, and they did ram into a solid concrete pillar at 80mph to be fair to Mercedes.

However, the price of old big cars is tempting

Yeah.. there’s a reason for that – cost of spares.

TBH you can have a head on in a NSL and nothing will really save the front passenger and driver.

Serious accidents don’t follow a family around- why not get a A6 though if you feel this helped your brother?

Or a Volvo.

NCAP ratings should be taken with a pinch of salt- they simulate 30mph accidents in laboratory conditions.

Saved that security guard though, and they did ram into a solid concrete pillar at 80mph to be fair to Mercedes.

True. What killed the driver was the steering wheel ingress and pillar pushing everything back. The rear passengers didn’t have seatbelts on did they?

Still he didn’t get off lightly- he had bad internal injuries.

NCAP ratings should be taken with a pinch of salt- they simulate 30mph accidents in laboratory conditions.

But they are a start. And does your car have a trip computer? Mine does, and after 9,000 miles I have done an average speed of 36mph so as a benchmark it’s pretty fair (at least in my circumstances).

thanks all.

the 9-3 isn’t rated for passenger safety

Johndoh, do you know what this actually means? On the NCAP page there is no rating for passenger safety for the 9-3, although they do mention that the cabin didn’t deform around ‘the children’. We’re the passenger ratings introduced later? Intuitively you’d guess there was a pretty strong relationship between passenger and driver safety?

Kcal – a splendid car and a splendid weekend! Hope all well with you!

NCAP ratings should be taken with a pinch of salt

What?? Have you got a better suggestion then for determining which cars are safest?

NCAP ratings should be taken with a pinch of salt- they simulate 30mph accidents in laboratory conditions.

They are designed to simulate real accidents much more than previous crash tests did. That’s why many cars scored poorly when they came out.

They are not saying ‘you will survive at 60mph’ when we have tested at 30mph. They are for comparing damage caused to different cars in the same accidents, that’s why the results are just good, very good etc rather than anything more specific.

However there is something else to think about with big cars. The width actually makes it more likely that you’ll clip someone who’s say on your side of the road, or less lkely that you’ll fit through a gap. I have to drive the Passat slower than I used to drive smaller cars on country roads, just because everything’s now tighter!

having watched a berlingo barrel roll down the m74 – and the passenger cell remain largely in tact – i am happy enough with my blingos safety – not that the remaining in tact is always a good thing but having seen what happens to a land rover in a similar accident – well.

how ever as a result i do ensure items in the back are tied down with more than a bunji cord these days.

Anyway, £3k isn’t bangernomics. You could get a B6 Passat for that, in petrol if you want.

Aye, fine Ian — now in Elgin. Self-employed (part-time).. That 900S only departed in July this year – uneconomic to repair from the short novel of MOT fails and advisories… Not bad..

joined the Octavia herd.

V6 3.2l Passat, under £3k!

hence why pretty much everything is 5* now,

Yes, but they do give an overall percentage score, so you can still differentiate between various 5 star alternatives. Some score better on child protection too. You have to read the details to make up your mind.

Older cars like the OP might be considering within budget are certainly not all 5 star rated.

Ok I’ll bite. Customers will see 5 star NCAP and presume a car is safe, or more importantly the safest in its class. True to a degree however in the bigger picture no car is safe and no NCAP conducts real world tests- the results would horrify.

For instance the pole test (why bother?) is only conducted to 18mph. Why bother? A car that loses control tends to be going at a fair rate of knots fast even sideways.

The FIXED height (what if a Mitsubishi Warrior hits a C1?) frontal impact of 40mph- still gives readings of damage to knees etc even on top rates cars.

Its good- NCAP and it has helped and improved safety but airbags deploy once. They don’t help with multiple impacts before a car comes to rest or when it is hit again.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at hora. We know that you can be killed in car accidents. What would you rather do differently? Health warnings on cars like with cigarettes?

hora – so do we ignore NCAP ratings then? What better suggestion have you got for comparisons?

Motorists see NCAP, ESP, ABS and devolve responsibility to gadgets and ratings. People would have less accidents if they took more responsibility and saw real world aftermath accidents than dummies in a dented car. Real world crashes can be horrific by comparison for passenger cell intrusion etc etc etc.

devolve responsibility to gadgets and ratings

Well that’s a different debate. Also daft, but whatever.

As per paul daniels on dave gormans genius radio show i vote for a big spike in the middle of the wheel in all cars. That would make you think twice about driving like a tit

Johndoh, do you know what this actually means? On the NCAP page there is no rating for passenger safety for the 9-3, although they do mention that the cabin didn’t deform around ‘the children’.

Yeah I know what it meant, I just looked on the star rating and it showed no rating rather than a zero rating – I didn’t think it was dangerous for children, just that they hadn’t scored it (so it couldn’t be assumed it was safe). Although apparently it is so crack on 🙂

My brother in law has just had a pretty serious road accident – he’s not in great shape but the police seemed pretty convinced that he survived as he was in an A6 – a pretty safe car by all accounts.

+1

Both my Sister-in-Law and my Cousins’ wife ended up with serious long-term mobility issues after having accidents while in small/fragile cars; a Corsa and a Mk1 Golf GTI.

Brother has had Legacy’s since and my Cousin a new Disco.

I’d look at a Mondeo/Passat/Vectra sized car, as new as you can get.

A monster Mercedes didn’t save Lady Di.

No, but seatbelts may have.

big spike notion has been around for quite a while I suspect 🙂 See also seatbelt, helmet debates ad nauseum ..

Not all cars are tested. Not a bad thing but for instance (from memory)- the A5 was lambasted as ‘not NCAP’ by the Brit media yet it was purely that a car wasn’t provided by Audi/nor bought by NCAP to test.

after 9,000 miles I have done an average speed of 36mph so as a benchmark it’s pretty fair (at least in my circumstances).

That’s some frankly shocking lack of logic with regard to what an average tells you. You could spend half your miles crawling in traffic jams and the other half doing 70 and get to that, and never travel at 36 mph at all (apart from momentarily while you accelerate away from the traffic jam).

to go back to the OP…

look for something as new a design/release as possible but biggish.

Big does not always mean higher safety but it helps. Newer design is more important IMO as safety advances.

Mondeo, Octavia, Passat etc. Don’t bother with a diesel so you can get a newer model for less than an older model diesel if you are on the border between model changes in terms of price.

hora – that’s just patronising and does not mean that cars should not be made safer. ABS alone has probably saved thousands of lives.

When I buy a car I do check the NCAP ratings in detail. You would be surprised how many modern cars are NOT 5 star rated e.g. Citroen Berlingo is only 3 star with a very low rating for Adult safety (56%). It’s all relative of course and will still be relatively safe compared to a lot of other older cars. But if crash safety is your priority then it’s obviously a poor choice.

hora – re-read the OP and have a bit of sensitivity, eh?

Sounds like NCAP ratings are a good place to start a search. Hope your BIL recovers well, OP.

CaptainFlashheart – Member
3k gets you a high miler early new shape V70 or a very, very tidy late edition V90. The latter is very much a luxo-barge, with a boot the size of a medium sized country! Safe as houses, too.

This.

And this (from about 2:45 on):

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUBaRqY_NqA[/video]

the A5 was lambasted as ‘not NCAP’ by the Brit media yet it was purely that a car wasn’t provided by Audi

Wasn’t it that Audi were lambasted, as their sales people claimed all Audi’s had a 5 star NCAP rating when i nfact quite a few haven’t been tested?

On the subject of old 90s tanks vs NCAP 5* cars :

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY[/video]