Ian: this is exactly the dilemma i'm facing!
i've a half marathon at the end of april, i don't know if can run that far running fore-foot in my asics tigers. i don't know if i can run that far running heel-strike in my nike airs.
hmmm.
Chat Forum
[closed]
Running on your toes
-
Posted 2 years ago #
-
Listening to Radio 4 the other week there was an article on all the latest research point to modern shock absorbing trainers actually damaging peoples feet. They recockoned bare foot running was actually the best for your feet, and makes you run properly.
There must be some thing in it as not one training shoe company would comment for the article
Posted 2 years ago # -
Excatly. You lean forward slightly. That's not going to make you start landing heel first.
No, but to keep the speed up (rather than falling over) you need to place your foot forward. I suppose that just depends how far you lean and how fast you're running though.
I'm not against the idea, I've just not found it matches how I run "naturally" and I'm pretty used to running about barefoot if I'm honest.
This statement is incorrect. It is less resistance to run on the forefoot, or at least around the midfoot as many studies have shown. Heel first has a braking affect.
Heel first would have a braking effect if you impacted without hard and at a fairly high angle, but I'm not sure the angle of incidence is much of 90 when running on your heels. While you might assume that a smoother impact on the forefoot would not give a braking effect, you're still having to tense and load the calf to support it when you otherwise wouldn't (as much)? There's a positive relationship, but who says whether it's causal or consequential?
I'm open to ideas, and do normally assume that "natural" is usually the best option (we only use shoes due to damage from surfaces) but when running on grass I don't run "on my toes", when when running down the beach I land heel first unless sprinting or really soft sand. I just haven't seen this natural tendency to land that way, and knowing that just having the wrong support in my shoes makes me take notice of my foot position and angles, I'd have thought a shoe subconsciously forcing me to land heel first would have been a nightmare.
This probably partially explains why I was always able to sprint the 100m in 11 secs but couldn't push past 400 without dying
Posted 2 years ago # -
To run at a constant speed you are not accelerating unless you class your air resistance as a major force
Not really. You are constantly accelerating upwards as you push off, and gravity brings you back down. Acceleration in a vertical direction. Otherwise, running at constant 10mph would be as easy as riding a bike at constant 10mph.. and as we all know it isn't!
And as for the 'natural' way, the above reference to barefoot running are correct. It's not natural to run with a Nike Air under your heel, and that's only there to enable you to heel run. I have lovely cushioning on the heels of my shoes, and I didn't even touch it when toe running. If you want natural, take your shoes off and go run on some grass. See how much you heel strike then - if you do, then that's your natural gait. And btw that thumping sound in your ears could well be your brain wobbling about in your skull
Posted 2 years ago # -
Not really. You are constantly accelerating upwards as you push off, and gravity brings you back down. Acceleration in a vertical direction. Otherwise, running at constant 10mph would be as easy as riding a bike at constant 10mph.. and as we all know it isn't!
Obviously, I was discounting vertical accel as you need to put the same effort into that no matter how you're running or you merge with the floor
If you want natural, take your shoes off and go run on some grass. See how much you heel strike then - if you do, then that's your natural gait. And btw that thumping sound in your ears could well be your brain wobbling about in your skull
As I say, I regularly do run (not for the sake of running) barefoot, never noticed it being forefoot based though. The thumping in my ears is my pulse due to lack of fitness, I assure you
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'd have thought a shoe subconsciously forcing me to land heel first would have been a nightmare.
Most shoes dont force this but they bring it about for a couple of reasons:
Firstly they "build" up the area of the heel which means if the forefoot striking first is quite subtle then the larger and pronounced heel area makes contact first. If the shoe was totally flat or without any midsole that encouragement would not exist.
They are also marketed in a way that actively encourages "cushioning" as being required, cushionless shoes would be more difficult to market (although the ones with the toes seem to be achieving this!)Running is a popular pastime and companies need to make money out of it so they have to appear to give us something, bigger and bulkier shoes, changing materials, styles etc is a way of doing that. There has to be a market to be captured.
Posted 2 years ago # -
As for running barefoot I once finished 4th in a XC race shoeless after forgetting my racing shoes. I ran OK with the only downside being very sore feet later that evening whilst trying to dance!!!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Your shoe design points do make sense, higher heel would automatically put the heel down first, encouraging that I suppose.
Maybe it's time to try some 5 fingers, I like the look of them anyway
Posted 2 years ago # -
Coffeeking, I PMed you.. check your hotmail..
Posted 2 years ago # -
Another [possibly] converted to the cult, Well done people!
Give us some feedback if you get the vibrams.Posted 2 years ago # -
If you've body's spent most of it's life running in a different way it's going to take a long time to adjust
I switched to more of a mid-foot strike (maybe when I run fast enough I can have a forefoot one
). This change means the placement of your foot also changes. The position of the strike feels like it is directly below / slightly behind your backside. It took a couple of weeks for the change over. There was no added stress / aches / pains but then again I'm not training for a marathon. I would have thought it not a good time to change over or try if you are about to do one.
Posted 2 years ago # -
This is fascinating.
In my youth I used to run long distances barefoot, so I was running on my toes. When I started using running shoes, they were basically a very thin leather sole and lightweight upper. Again, on my toes.
I stopped running for a while, and when I picked it up again, the modern running shoe was the hot thing, so I went along with that. My normal run was about 6-10 miles offroad and the shoes forced a heelstrike method which by then, I believed was the correct way to run. Unfortunately I have flat feet, so after 12 years of running heelstrike, I gradually gave up because of foot pain in the mornings.
In retrospect, it's obvious our bodies are designed for toe first because early man didn't have thickly padded shoes, and running heelstrike on hard surfaces is painful very quickly.
I'm all fired up to running another go - so what shoes for toefirst running?
Posted 2 years ago # -
er, i like my asics onitsuka tigers...
(remove and replace the stupid lumpy insole first)
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm all fired up to running another go - so what shoes for toefirst running?
In approximate order of thickness (thinnest first) is something like
Feelmax Pankas/Niesa
Vibram fivefinger sprints, KSOs
Feelmax Osoma
Terra Plana EVO - yet to be realised.
Vibram fivefinger KSOs treks and the yet to be relased bikila
Then conventional thin racing shoes like Mizuno Wave Universe 3Or if you want something reasonably priced, then a pair of 5 quid neoprene water/aqua shoes are pretty minimal.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I haven't run any distance for years 'cos of ropey knees/missing cartiliage - but a noticed a few years ago after moving near to a station I was tending to use my forefoot when legging it for the train, to save my knees a bit.
I still haven't bought any, but there's some sizing info on the 5finger things here:http://www.begin2dig.com/2008/11/fitting-vibram-five-fingers-and-injinji.html
http://www.colinseymour.co.uk/sizing-vibram-five-fingers
http://www.keith-in-training.com/2008/03/vibram-fivefingers-ksos-part-i.html
And mebbe some useful info/outlets around London:
http://www.funckey.co.uk/forums/topic/1464-buying-vibram-five-fingers-and-weightlifting-shoes-in-london/
http://www.funckey.co.uk/forums/topic/1133-vibram-five-fingers/Posted 2 years ago # -
Changing your running gait is a lengthy process and if tried 'overnight' will bring more problems than solutions. The reason for this is that your body (tendons, ligamants, muscles)have adapted to running in your 'normal' way and if you alter this significantly either by changing your cadence, length of gait or adopt a new way of running problems will begin.
Remember to change things slowly and over time (can be as much as 12-24 months) for complete adaptation.....there is no quick fix!
If you are having problems then see a podiatrist who may be able to help and/or get some new running shoes that suit your gait, remember also running shoes are only good for 350-500 miles!.Posted 2 years ago # -
Changing your running gait is a lengthy process and if tried 'overnight' will bring more problems than solutions.
I'm sure you're probably right but for me, my current running gait is the problem. I'm a fit biker, I can do Cwmcarn in 56 minutes but I can't run two miles in less than 18 minutes. Distance running for me really is terribly uncomfortable and a thoroughly miserable experience..
So I'll try doing 20 mins on toes tomorrow and I'll report back
Posted 2 years ago # -
er, try 10.
it's a big change, don't get too ambitious too early.
(i'm the opposite to you, i'd say i'm a natural runner; put me on a bike and my legs just stop working)
Posted 2 years ago # -
I am really interested in the Vibram Five Fingers idea. I had a foot operation in November, so I had to wear Birkenstock sandals since then and my feet have widened and spread. I'm not a runner, but would be interested to wear them for normal day to day use. I like being barefoot.
I find my 5.10s really big and clumpy now, and while the grip is great, I wish I had more feel of the pedals like I used to with thinner soled skate shoes. Anyone think the VFFs would be good riding on flat pedals?
Posted 2 years ago # -
hmmmmmm, paid attention to it tonight on my usual 10k, turns out I'm a natural forefoot runner. I use a pretty bog standard pair of Nike Air, so it's definitely possible. Perhaps it explains why I don't get running injuries?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I have a few pairs of five fingers and love them, never had more comfortable footwear.
People laugh and point though - be prepared. Don't think they are thick enough for flats TBH sole is a couple of mm thick at best
Posted 2 years ago # -
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
This topic has been closed to new replies.
