oh seems like some of you know your stuff.. any tips on making it more enjoyable…

Run off road, and perseverance.
It does stop hurting eventually, or at least hurting less, but it takes a fair while 🙂

i have toyed with the idea of a heart rate monitor, is it worth the faff?

Possibly, depends on how much faff-age you can cope with 🙂
It can be quite good tracking historical progress, so for instance I noticed that I ran faster on Sunday than a similar length race 2 years ago and my HR was 20 beats lower than in the race.
But unless you like staring at data on a PC, or are good at obeying commands from a beeping watch to slow down, or speed up it’s probably not be worth the cost.

They are helpful in pacing during training. If you run at generally lower than X then you get a different response to if you run at above X.

People often end up going hard all the time whihc isn’t necessarily good in training terms.

You can use them in very simple or complex terms, it’s up to you.

Depends what you want and what you like.

What do you like when riding? If you’re a strava/ powermeter addict, maybe HRM’s the way to go. If you’re a singletrack pootler, go for a muddy offroad run and don’t even take a watch – basically replicate what you find fun on the bike.

Make it fun first, then when (if!) you start to enjoy it, start to think about ways of getting faster.

They are helpful in pacing during training

The difficulty with training to a heart rate is the variability. Unless you collect a large amount of data over a very long period you dont get the opportunity to use it to develop a training plan. A restless nights sleep can elevate your resting rate by a few beats in the same way as an impending cold.
Some tiredness lingering from a previous session can elevate your heartrate and ironically tiredness can actually restrict your heartrate climbing.
There is no doubt they have a role to play for elite athletes who focus their life around training and competition and have the data as well as the where with all and support to interrogate it but for the novice there is more to be gained by concentrating on the basics.

basically replicate what you find fun on the bike.

Thats not to say without a heart rate monitor your running is not aimed at reaching your potential it still can be. I have known a number of international distance runners over the years I cant think of one who ever used it.

My hopes are to be able to walk tomorrow without wincing or looking like john wayne has lost his horse.
My aims are to be able to do a run for an hour once a week without getting into this state again.
I’m uninjured just aching a lot and I’m a long way away from top form which was never any good at all.

Did my first “run” in ages on saturday 45mins of slow to medium jogging with some short steep hills, lots of stretching and a cold bath afterwards did nowt to prevent my legs hurting yesterday and today. Is this how non-cyclists feel after doing a big ride with no training? I’ve never hurt my legs like this cycling.

There is no doubt they have a role to play for elite athletes who focus their life around training and competition and have the data as well as the where with all and support to interrogate it but for the novice there is more to be gained by concentrating on the basics.

Sure, but one of the basics is how fast to run, isn’t it?

And there’s a lot of ground between rank novice and elite.

I’ve never hurt my legs like this cycling.

That’s cos cycling’s non-impact.

Did the Tadley runners 10k yesterday. This was literally the first time i had run since the London British 10k last summer (bar 15 minutes around the block Wednesday night to see if trainers still fitted and to remind myself how to do it!)
Just dipped under an hour which i thought was ok for a 42yr old 13 1/2 stone bloke who NEVER runs.
Legs are a bit sore today, and i expect to be struggling with stairs tomorrow if last year is anything to go by. 😕
Just entered the Basingstoke half marathon in October so fear i may nedd to actually train a bit. 🙁

Currently training for a marathon in October, aim is to go sub 3 hrs. Currently looking good as I did a 10K in 37:50 a couple of weeks ago and did 50 miles last week including 20 miles for the first time yesterday with no ill effects. Fell running is my major passion though and I am moving house so I can do more 🙂

In the last two weeks I have run up or over several of the major lakes peaks including Scafell Pike, Bowfell, Skiddaw, Consiton Old Man and Great Gable

After that its the 3 peaks race, been on the list for some time but I had to complete the qualifying races, then I was injured, next year though…

I use my housemates Garmin every now and then, as it’ll show pace and I can measure new routes accuratly. But mostly if I want to run a faster time, then I use the stopwtach on my wrist and beat my previous PB. I don’t much go in for all the other faff about running at a particular HR or pace.

I think scenery makes all the difference for enjoyment. running into the countryside (if you can) is bliss

Popped my heart rate minitor on during yesterdays 10k, just to see what i was ticking over at.
Found it quite helpful as although i don’t know what bpm i should be aiming for when running, it was quite reassuring that after hills it was dropping down nicely in a similar way that it would after a climb on the road bike and i wasn’t bouncing off the rev limiter the whole way round. 🙂

Quite scary that running for 6 miles is sooo much harder work than 60 miles on the road bike.

Did my first “run” in ages on saturday 45mins of slow to medium jogging with some short steep hills, lots of stretching and a cold bath afterwards did nowt to prevent my legs hurting yesterday and today. Is this how non-cyclists feel after doing a big ride with no training? I’ve never hurt my legs like this cycling.

steep hills you say? – did you run down as well as up?

i’d guess that you’ve got DOMS in your quad muscles (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness), it’s caused by eccentric loading of the muscles (forcibly extending a tensed muscle), the best way to cause it is to run downhill.

it’s very difficult/impossible to cause it by riding a bike (no repeated violent extension of the quad muscles).

massage doesn’t help – and will just hurt like hell, you can’t walk it off, it lasts 2-3 days without really getting better or worse, and then disappears overnight.

(it’s very odd, and it’s still not well understood)

i get it pretty much every week, ’cause of the fell running and my almost total lack of finesse on the descents.

One does not always look our best when running

I have found a HRM really useful in just pacing myself and understanding how much to back off to complete a long run at an easy pace. I think as long as you understand the variances that can occur then you should be OK. My HR was 10 bpm higher on yesterdays long road run compared with 3 weeks ago, but this was due to a cold and tiredness

+1 for a decent HRM / GPS.

I’m currently doing 10k in the mornings – running to the station. 5 days a week.

Pace has increased gradually from start of the year when I used to walk it – currently averaging around 50 minute mark (laden with rucksack containing clothes / lunch / towel and general work kit so i don’t think it’s too bad). The Garmin has been a really good motivating tool ( virtual partner etc ) and I’m one for collating as much data as I can. I’ve found working on cadence as well as looking at HR zones useful in increasing stamina and speed.

Aim is to have a week with one sub 46 minute and rest sub 48 run. Afraid to say i don’t have a specific runnng training plan at the moment – will save that for later in the year.

Great thread, I’m struggling with my running and this is good reading ‘cos it seems that I’m not alone.
I can only plod along at my slow speed (9km in 50mins last night) but am suffering from a bad back at the moment. I also work late most nights so fitting in runs is very hard.
I’m supposed to do a 14 mile run for charity in mid-August. My plan is to do a couple of 3 or 4 mile runs midweek then a long one at the weekends to get distance under my belt.
Has anyone got top tips for training? I’ve done 10km and 16km events in the past but I was a lot fitter and slimmer then and my body wasn’t as broken.
Because I’m just an occasional runner, I just run at my own pace for as long as I can. All this fartlek and 85% MHR is just science fiction to me. There must be other crap runners who think the same??

Here’s a photo of me during this year’s Edale Skyline race where I came 8th

Ive not run in about a month. Just ran 4K in 22 minutes. Is that good/bad/average?

it felt hellish and thought I was slow but the same route normally takes me 25 minutes

It’s a bit slower than me.

Sure, but one of the basics is how fast to run, isn’t it?

maybe they dont tell you that they dont even provide reliable output to be able to guage effort (not speed) GPS monitors distance over time (speed) which is useful (but not all the time) HRM no. Running at the same pace can give different readings dependent on many factors. Without significant information it tells you very little.

My HR was 10 bpm higher on yesterdays long road run compared with 3 weeks ago, but this was due to a cold and tiredness

Did the HRM tell you that you had a cold? or did you have a cold then notice that your HRM was elevated?
Chances are you felt under the weather and responded the same way with or without a HRM by taking it easy.
If you had a cold but your HRM indicated a normal reading would you have trained normally?

Running at the same pace would result in different HRs yes. But running at the same HR would be a good indicator of the actual effort expended and hence what your body is doing, wouldn’t it?

Not perfect of course, but a bit better than going by feel.

I’m not saying get one, I’m not saying it’ll be brilliant for everyone, but they can be useful for regular runners if you decide you want to train that way.

Here’s a photo of me during this year’s Edale Skyline race where I came 8th

Your showing off now 😉

Ok then, can someone inspire me to go out for a run? I’m knackered and feel like sleeping, but I’m still fat.

I’m not anti HRM I just think it takes peoples eye off the ball in the sense that their are other factors to consider, it also gives people another reason to run slow as athletes often set their max levels very low using generic formulae then hold back to stay within them. This is often impractical on training runs as the speed and terrain often vary plus HR rises as you get tired.

It could, yes. But then people can get obsessed with gear of all types, can’t they? I mean, we’re MTBers aren’t we? 🙂

I used to find it impossible to run in any kind of base zone, but now I can cruise comfortably at an easy HR.

Ok then, can someone inspire me to go out for a run? I’m knackered and feel like sleeping, but I’m still fat.

Basically no, if you can’t motivate yourself- get fatter.

Ok then, can someone inspire me to go out for a run? I’m knackered and feel like sleeping, but I’m still fat.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dFgH_vDh6E[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6–kiYKx9kA[/video]

I’m not going – I think sleep would be more beneficial to the overall cause at this time.

And not eating any sugar.

I used to find it impossible to run in any kind of base zone, but now I can cruise comfortably at an easy HR.

Why was it too fast?

Morning runners!
I managed to get up and out the door for 6am today, ive done 3 x 1 mile efforts at 6.30 pace which felt flippin hard straight out of bed! Nearly 5 mile in total with warm up , stretches and cool down. Really pleased with myself. Got home, had breakfast with the kids then an 11 mile commute to work by bike. Im going to attempt this every tues and thursday mornings. Then hopefully a long run and a shorter tempo at the weekends unless im racing.
Im sure i will be tired later but im wide awake now! 🙂
I’ve got a bit of stiffness in my hamstrings from the weekend race still so will get the massage stick on them tonight.
I don’t use hrm, i did for years but never really new what i was doing with it, i know the basics but unless you have a coach or fully understand it i wouldn’t bother personally. However i love the gps for speed pace and rarely run without it. Interestingly i put some of my lack luster weekend race performance down to forgetting my Garmin, i think if i had seen the pace i was actually racing at it may have spurred me on to push harder. Maybe?!
Bought 2 new pairs of shorts yesterday and was served by Darran Bilton a top uk Vet marathon runner, Nice guy and super friendly. He is quite well known on my local race scene as being the man to beat.
Roll on Thursday am!

http://www.alexvero.co.uk/documentary.htm
Trailer
If you get chance to see this its worth a watch. It was aired in tv a while back but it may be available on the net for free somewhere.

That’s cos cycling’s non-impact.

well that’s what I’d have thought but I’ve heard so many people complaining their legs hurt after riding a unusually long/hard ride. My legs very, very rarely hurt at all after riding, just feel empty and complete lack of power.

steep hills you say? – did you run down as well as up?

prefer to go for steep up gentle down and I take it easy, don’t want the impact damaging my knees. Plus I’ve run with a mate who does a lot of fell running he is scarily fast downhill and he’s not that quick apparently, I just don’t have the cajones for downhill running.

I must get round to watching that time, as I recall it sounded quite interesting when it came out, but got some mixed reviews.
It’s the club 5K handicap this evening. Looking at the entrance list so far, none of my rivals have signed up yet, so I might take the series lead. Mind you, they’ve still got a few more hours to sign on, but fingers crossed they’re on holiday 🙂

If your talking about the vero vid i think he upset a lot of runners by basically saying you can all do it if you put the effort in. If thats true or not i dont know. I found it really good and for those who want to make running a bit more exciting try running like this chap..
Killian Jornet.

I did a 4h 48m marathon on Sunday – actually quite pleased as it was the last section of an Ironman distance triathlon. Running well until i got to 30K, when it turned into more of a run/walk. 12h 33m total time.

On the right in the picture below – end of the first lap, about 10K into it.

Well played RichardK… a respectable time for an Ironman.

Planning to do an Iron in 2014(happy to slowly build up to it, got my first HIM next month.) and would be happy with a time like that.

That Kilian Jornet vid looks like he’s turned up at the Red Bull Rampage without his bike but carried on regardless 😆

i think he upset a lot of runners by basically saying you can all do it if you put the effort in

If thats the case who would it upset. Within reason athletic performance is dependent on effort.

killian video @ 33s, why is he wearing a sports bra under his shirt?