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68 posts & 34 voices | Started 1 year ago by JonEdwards | Latest reply from IanMunro

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JonEdwards - Member

In a bid to try and counter my rather OTT calorie intake (as well as some cross training) I need to start doing a bit of lunchtime running.

Now, bar a bit of desultory gym stuff a few years back, I've done next to no running in the last 16-18 years (pretty much since I learnt to ride a bike, age 19) although I was pretty decent at school. Whenever I've tried running I've ended up killing myself and my legs are in agony for the next 3 or 4 days, plus my lower back tends to pack up. That's after maybe 20 minutes to half an hour. Any less and it doesn't seem worth the effort of getting changed and going out - I'm not even going to begin to get warmed up.

This forefoot running business sounds interesting (might solve the back issues?), but I've done some reading that suggests unless you're pretty quick, it's not worth bothering with?

I do have a pair of running trainers - nothing great - some Pumas I picked up in a sale a couple of years back - and I'm reluctant to spend a wedge of cash on something that may only get used a few times if it's going to continue to hurt that much!

Any advice? Thanks!

Posted 1 year ago #
iDave - Member

start by running 30 seconds, then walking 30 seconds. do that 3 x week for up to 20 mins for a few weeks - no more. then start to do longer periods of running. but the run/walk is an ideal starting point.

Posted 1 year ago #
nols - Member

Have you thought about slightly less traditional style stuff?
The stuff this guy does is pretty inspirational:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKGF-ErsJiI

Posted 1 year ago #
B.A.Nana - Member

Start off with shorter jogs for a few weeks and gradually build it up. To leasen the impact, try runs on grass, in the park and local fields etc.

Posted 1 year ago #
tails - Member

lol @ nols

that vid is very funny but very good at the same time. I just can't imagine it being quite the same running around thetford forest or swimming down the derwent. Also his feet must be made of leather.

Posted 1 year ago #
nols - Member

tails I know what you mean, a mate of mine sent it to me. First time I watched it I was like "you what..." I've just been reading about the dude, actually starting to think the stuff he does is pretty awesome. It kind of goes back to mucking about in the woods, like we all used to do as kids. Jumping on and off stuff, running for a bit, crawling under stuff. Certainly more entertaining than endless back smashing miles running in a straight line... also that bit where he's going like the clappers - look at how steady his head is, it barely moves.

Posted 1 year ago #
roper - Member

also that bit where he's going like the clappers - look at how steady his head is, it barely moves.

He must have a long neck!!!

I thank you.

Posted 1 year ago #
porterclough - Member

Whenever I've tried running I've ended up killing myself and my legs are in agony for the next 3 or 4 days, plus my lower back tends to pack up. That's after maybe 20 minutes to half an hour. Any less and it doesn't seem worth the effort of getting changed and going out - I'm not even going to begin to get warmed up.

If you're reasonably fit in any case from cycling or whatever then you will find that your legs start to hurt well before you get tired if you're not used to running. This is what I found when I took up running a couple of years ago anyway. You need to keep doing the shorter runs for several weeks and then gradually increase the distance as your body gets used to it.

Posted 1 year ago #
JonEdwards - Member

A large part of it is finding the motivation to get off my arse and start. I've *never* done exercise purely as a health/diet thing. I ride my bike loads simply because I enjoy it, it takes me somewhere quickly, plus the adrenaline/control aspect. In comparison running just seems very hard work, slow, painfull and frankly pointless.

That guy in the vid is a bit wrong in the head. I take his point, but not in the UK! It would be good to start indoor climbing again, but it just costs so damn much for a couple of hours of an evening.

Posted 1 year ago #
Lucas - Member

Last March I decided to try running. I was walking the dog for an hour every night and thought I might as well try running (I'd not run since school 14 years before). To start with I just went out in dog walking clothes, walked our normal route and ran little bits - like a hundred meters or so and then walked. Over the weeks I could go further and I set bits that I'd run and set bits I'd walk (these tended to be broken down into different fields).

I gradually started to run more of the walking bits and run longer between rests. I now do 6-8km non stop a 3 or 4 times a week.

The other night I bumped into some guys I know who were running and I ran with them. This was the first time I'd ever run with anyone apart form the dog so I was worried I'd be rubbish, to make it worse these guys have run marathons and organise local races. To my surprise I kept up fine and they actually ran at a slower pace than I do on my own (which probably shows I try to go too fast all the time). I felt great at the end, like the previous year had paid off. It's encouraged me to try to get better too.

So build up slow, don't worry about walking and being knackered and stick with it, oh and get a dog they take away the choice - your going out anyway!!

Posted 1 year ago #
djglover - Member

Go slow at first, don't get out of breath. I've been there before, bike fit and then with no running go pick of a 10K in 45 mins and be in agony for days. Don't bother with all this trendy forefoot nonsence, just concentrate on going slow and developing a good technique that works for you. Things to pay attention to

Head not too high up
Kick your legs up
dont drop your shoulders
use your arms
breathing rhythm

After 3 or 4 runs you should be able to add a bit of fartlek or a tempo run once a week

Posted 1 year ago #
leebaxter - Member

Like pepole say start real slow. Years of biking changes your physiology to suit biking. favouring (developing) biking muscles over walking muscles. it can be harder for a cyclist to start running to a couch potato. as the poster says, aches and pains for days. Again take it slow, and keep at it.

Posted 1 year ago #
brooess - Member

Agree with the 'go easy'
Also worth finding a club - you can learn huge amounts from running with others, more motivating + you can learn from everyone else's mistakes!

Re shoes, though, bad idea to use old ones, it's the fastest way to an injury. Get to a proper running shop, avoid the high st stores, get one that does running gait analysis (either on a treadmill or they watch you run) and let them recommend the shoes you need for your running style. Proper running shoes can be a lot cheaper than you think (c£50). And if you've spent the ££ you'll want to make use of it, which you can get you out running more often

Posted 1 year ago #
joemarshall - Member

Have you thought about slightly less traditional style stuff?
The stuff this guy does is pretty inspirational:

What a great video. Looks really fun.

That guy in the vid is a bit wrong in the head. I take his point, but not in the UK!

Why not? I've quite often done a bike ride to a river, swim down some rapids (swim against the current until you get bored then hammer it downstream), run back to where the bike is. And that's just in Derbyshire - must be loads of places in the lakes, Scotland etc. where you could do it too. I can think of somewhere 10 miles ride from central of London where you could do a nice run in woods, climb trees, have a nice swim & bike ride for that matter. Okay you're a bit limited by temperature / wussyness as far as swimming much in winter, but the rest of the stuff I don't see why not (and if you don't swim, then you can wear shoes too).

Joe

Posted 1 year ago #
will - Member

I started running back in October 09. Always used to hate running, and never "got it" but now get out about 3 times a week for a 4 mile loop. I would really advise running offroad. Not only is it easier, but much more fun, different terrain and challenges make it actually fun! I always seem to go out too hard at the start on long runs

Posted 1 year ago #
kennyp - Member

Try fell running. Much better than being bored on tarmac. At first it'll be mostly fell walking, but you'll soon get fitter. Even better, you may discover new bike trails; I know I have.

Posted 1 year ago #
will - Member

kennyp - Member
Try fell running. Much better than being bored on tarmac. At first it'll be mostly fell walking, but you'll soon get fitter. Even better, you may discover new bike trails; I know I have.

Yup. He's right

Posted 1 year ago #
nickc - Member

Find a route that's about 3 miles/5k, if it's got a hill or two, mores the better. Pull on your shoes*, go run it, make space in your schedule to do this 3 times a week. Don't worry about timing it, in fact don't even wear a watch, and don't worry about walking, although aim to run as much of it as you can. Run at a comfortable jogging pace, not to slow, not to fast, a pace you reckon you run the route. Do this for a couple of weeks, or until you can comfortably run the whole thing. Then time it. Aim to take a few seconds off it each time you go out. Once you get down to a steady time. look to start lengthening the route, do 8km then 10km (if you fancy it). some folk love short runs, I find 10k pretty much the perfect balance between a good run, and not taking up too much time, or effort, so I tend to do one every day.

Listen to your body, if it hurts at any time, don't finish the run, stop, and walk home, and sort it out pronto. Don't go straight in at the deep end thinking you can run a sub 20 minutes 5km, start slow, but don't miss out a run either, the thing with running is; running... You get used to it, your body will get used to it, but only if you're consistent.

* Opinions will vary, but I've run my entire adult life, and my current running shoes are at least 4 years old and have thousands of km on them, I'm from the "pull on dabs, go run" school of running, others do it differently, and swap and buy new trainers all the time. Go with whatever makes it easy to run for you.

Posted 1 year ago #
JonEdwards - Member

Try fell running

That would involve having some fells to run on...

I've got Wandsworth Recreation Ground instead. (which is exactly as glamorous as it sounds!)

Posted 1 year ago #
surfer - Member

Don't bother with all this trendy forefoot nonsence

Not sure what this means?

Are you refering to the debate the other day about heal/forefoot striking? if so you need to re-read it as forefoot striking is actually the least "trendy" thing I can imagine.

Posted 1 year ago #
djglover - Member

As in there is a big trend towards it at the moment

Posted 1 year ago #
uponthedowns - Member

In your bare feet Jon run on the spot. Notice that you are naturally landing on your forefoot maximising the big spring in your leg that's your Achilles tendon which will shock absorb better than any £70 pair of Nikes. Also has the advantage of storing energy to propel you on your next stride. Couple of years ago before this forefoot running became fashionable I reassessed my running style due to back, knee, leg pain. I noticed I was heel striking and running flat footed so switched to landing on my forefoot. All the pain disappeared and I started running 30% faster. Another big advantage is running gear suddenly becomes cheaper as any cheap pair of trainers with a thin sole will do.

Like the other posters say build up gradually but also try to use your natural "barefoot" style.

Posted 1 year ago #
Haze - Member

Until you rupture your tendon...

Posted 1 year ago #
epicyclo - Member

Haze - Member
Until you rupture your tendon...

Anyone here done that? and how long were you running on your forefoot beforehand?

Posted 1 year ago #
jam bo - Member

good stretch/warm down afterwards is key. if I dont then any run will have me hobbling around the next day.

Posted 1 year ago #
Jamie - Member

There was a thread the other day about running, search it out as had some interesting nuggets on efficient running technique.

Posted 1 year ago #
garthmerenghi - Member

Jon, I used to do a fair bit of running and even did a marathon when I was much younger and less sane. My advice is two fold. First - get some decent trainers from a specialist shop. Have them fit the shoes for you. Some people over pronate or under pronate when running and a good shop will put inserts in the shoes to fix this.
2nd - stretch, stretch, stretch and oh yes, stretch. Do this before your run and after. This really helps cut down on the stiffness.
You'll always get stiff legs a bit, especially when starting out. No pain no gain and all that. Just take it easy and enjoy. Once you're over the initial few weeks it will suddenly start to come together and you'll feel your lungs and legs getting into a rhythm. Then you'll get addicted to the endorphins and end up doing 50 mile a week like I did !

Posted 1 year ago #
baldSpot - Member

if your lower back hurts, it's because your core is weak.
3x15min sessions a week of core exercises will sort that.
running more will not.
you can do it in front of the telly.

Posted 1 year ago #
Haze - Member

Anyone here done that? and how long were you running on your forefoot beforehand?

Not me personally, not through running anyway.

I've heard of a couple of examples though, would guess it'd take a fair bit...

Posted 1 year ago #
deft - Member

In your bare feet Jon run on the spot. Notice that you are naturally landing on your forefoot

Because he's not sodding going anywhere, foot strike depends on how fast you're going

Posted 1 year ago #
IanMunro - Member

Some people over pronate or under pronate when running and a good shop will put inserts in the shoes to fix this.

Except that there's not one iota of evidence that it fixes anything.
It's as mental as a beginner going to a bike shop and them analyzing your cycle style and recommending a downhill bike with stabilizers because you stay seated over bumps and can't track stand

Posted 1 year ago #
garthmerenghi - Member

The shoe inserts really worked for me. Back stiffness and knee pain was reduced when I started using them. They don't cost anything.
Can you really put stabilizers on a down hill bike. I'd like to see that. Could be a new niche sport.

Posted 1 year ago #
uponthedowns - Member

I'll admit my Achilles was sore after runs for about 2-3 months after I changed running style but built distance up gradually without injury.

deft do you reckon this guy is going to land on his heel?

Posted 1 year ago #
Sandwich - Member

Search out Hal Higdon and Couch to 5K both of which have helped me get to a 25minute 3 mile time. (I'm just over 2 weeks from completing the 5K programme). Helps with keeping the weight down for Fat Club as well.

Posted 1 year ago #
nickc - Member

"that" guy isn't running on his heels 'cause he's trying very hard to go as fast as he can, and to do that you need to be on the forefoot. Long distance stuff, it's not so clear, there's a real lack of evidence about whether forefoot running "makes" you go faster, or whether you just go fast because you're on the forefoot. Just saying it's "better" isn't really moving the debate forward any. heel striking isn't bad per se, as long as your not injuring yourself. There's a surprising lack of study or evidence either way.

Realistically though, start slow, get used to running, make it a regular part of your life, steady as you go. Will probably be enough to keep you injury free.

Posted 1 year ago #
MidlandTrailquestsGraham - Member

...do you reckon this guy is going to land on his heel?

I reckon he's going to land on his arse if he doesn't do his laces up.

Posted 1 year ago #
starseven - Member

Runnings been really good for me. Started about 5 years usually in winter evenings. The first time I ever donned some trainers and stepped out with the purpose of running I did a couple of hundred yards and was almost sick.

I now run 2/3 times a week usually about 4 to 5 miles 30 minutes or so not really bothered about the time or distance just enough to give me a hit of happy.

I enjoy cycling always have but running is much less faff, its also a great chance to listen to some music uninterrupted or just think.

Posted 1 year ago #
surfer - Member

As in there is a big trend towards it at the moment

Where?
My points on the other thread is that it is more natural to do this, not to do it because its "trendy"
The "trend" has been by the running shoe manufacturers marketing departments attempting to convince us that landing heel first is economical simply because trying to market shoes without huge amounts of padding and unnecessary cushioning is difficult.
Landing forefoot first appears (and I agree evidence is thin on the ground)to be both natural and more efficient. This is not a "trend" or if it is its possibly a few million years old! unlike the marketing of the last few decades!

there's a real lack of evidence about whether forefoot running "makes" you go faster, or whether you just go fast because you're on the forefoot.

I dont understand this however if the intention is to run fast then isnt it immaterial?
if you look at this (taken during a 2:04 marathon)

It is clear that Haille is landing and pushing off on his forefoot, even though this second picture appears to contradict it.

On both occasions he lands on his midfoot and rolls forward to toe off.

Of course he is an exceptional example but I have yet to see a top distance runner that lands heel first, I wouldnt say there are none.

Posted 1 year ago #
surfer - Member

Because he's not sodding going anywhere, foot strike depends on how fast you're going

Does it?

When Bolt is decelerating past the line, does he land on his heel? I suspect not. He uses his forefoot during acceleration and even during deceleration he is on his forefoot. Why is that?

Posted 1 year ago #
al_f - Member

I read the barefoot running posts the other day with interest, but then rapidly lost interest when I checked out the barefoot running forum someone had linked to and every other thread was someone asking about an injury.

I think the best advice I've read was from a book a friend lent me, which basically advised beginners to run with a comfortable, relaxed, natural gait and said that most people will start by running heel-toe but then will transition to toe-heel naturally as they get fitter/faster.

Posted 1 year ago #