I just went thru the Edinburgh squad 24 scots born, 18 non scots born. Of those 18 non scots born half a dozen played age grade for scotland or moved here as kids. Hamish Watson for example.

So we are saying what 12 non scots out of 42? Assuming Glasgow were the same thats what 24/84 pro players in Scotland almost 30%. Seems quite a lot to me. Not saying Wales are any better mind and England have more teams so its less of an effect but it will stop some talent developing if the player pool is limited. Wales have more teams but it still affects us.

Based on squad from grauniad
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/dec/29/manu-tuilagi-left-out-england-six-nations-training-squad

All data taken or derived from wikipedia apart from T’eo. A lot fo the data is unclear as some may have been playing at school from a younger age, so in somw cases I have just taken the earliest date recorded on wikipedia which could be after they started playing at school.
Of 34 players, 8 are not born in uk. And really only 3 of those are sniffy. Teo, Solomana and Graham. The rest played age grade Eng so I am happy.
Teo is the worst – it seems he became eligible aged 28 after playing for samoa ffs.
Gary Graham played Scotland age grade and started eligibility at 23
Solomana played in uk from 21
Nathan Earle at 16 or younger poss.
Hartley 16
Smith at 15 or younger poss.
Vunipolas 11 and 12 I think maybe younger?

I think rules are rules and if you are eligible then that’s fine by me, wherever you draw the line there will be someone close to it. (Teo..)

Vunipolas 11 and 12 I think maybe younger?

Mako Vunipola is welsh!

Oh and pretty sure Hughes is Fijian

I really don’t think it stops talent developing. 60 proplayers in scotland plus another 20 or so elsewhare ( ?)- you – thats all the pro players we have. Its not so long ago that in the 6N glasgow had to play some older semi pro players. Don’t forget the age group and academy players as well. Several of the “non scots” played age grade rugby i scotland indeed have never played outside Scotland.

intersting on the numbers you gave tho – smaller squad and more welsh

10s is a real issue for Scotland – we only really have one international standard 10 and loads of scots have been tried and found wanting. What do the pro teams do? Play a scot who is not up to it of bring in an import?

Hughes is out, injured. Vunipolas started playing in Thornbury at Castle school in early teens according to a source I got of Wiki.

PS Mako became eng eligble in 2009 at 18, which means he must have started playing in eng at 15.

Mako is welsh listen to him speak. He was older before he turned to the dark side! His brother is pure sith though@

12/47 born abroad in the Ulster squad. Mostly saffas

Don’t see it as a big deal. Ulster academy brings through plenty.

However Tommy Bowe is calling it a day at the end of the season. How we would have loved a team of Tommy Bowe’s!

East Wales U11’s before the dark times!

Teo is the worst – it seems he became eligible aged 28 after playing for samoa ffs.

If you aren’t familiar with it, it’s worth finding out a little about why Teo qualified for England. He wasn’t interested in who he played for, he just wanted to play international rugby.

He said that on the tour prior to the last Lions he was cheering for anyone who played against the Lions.

Absolute cynical mercenary who should have been banned a long time ago because of that stupid thing on his arm and his tendency to forearm smash with it.

Mako is welsh listen to him speak.

Didn’t his father play for Dunvant? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Trouble with imports is you don’t really know until after their careers if they really loved the country or simply used it as a way to play international rugby – apart from the Likes of Visser who has never wrapped himself in the flag and made no bones about why he plyed for scotyland

For every Lineen who stayed in Scotland and made his life here there is a Leslie who buggers off home again as soon as he could

Mako Vunipola is welsh!

Not this again! 😆

At lesst he’s been through the system properly; schooled in England for a descent while, England U18’s, U20’s, Saxons then the senior team. Started his professional career with an English club etc.

Guys like Hartley who have an English language parent at least have a proper connection to the country. I think grannies are pushing it and the three year residency is too short. Te’o’s mum is English although having not arrived in England until Worcester signed him he does fall into the mercinary camp.

Anyone know any good rugby forums? Not single country based. The one I use is dying a death because of trolls.

Je suis confused..
Who is trolling? We have been talking about Wales, Eng and Scotland, then Ulster team was summarised. No French or Italians in yet.

Ulster academy brings through plenty.

They, Munster and Connaught do well, but for whatever reason (probably because they have a budget of €1.7bn whereas, say, the Welsh regions have 57p to split between them over a decade), it’s Leinster who are turning out the most talent at the moment.

Je suis confused..
Who is trolling?

I think TJ is talking about a different forum. This one doesn’t suffer too much from trolls, apart from the odd intervention by some posters when they’re bored of the EU thread. 😉

it’s Leinster who are turning out the most talent at the moment.

And they are doing it very, very well. I wonder if it’s all down to money or whether they’ve just got the systems right. (I know nothing about Irish academy systems…) Or whether it’s just coincidence that they have a batch of good players arriving at once.

Irish schools rugby is of a high standard, when we used to get 18 year olds coming to the club while at Uni, they were way ahead of a lot of our guys

SRU a few years ago was happy to ignore and not support the few good 10s we had at schoolboy level in favour of those from farther afield.
Alex Blair carried a few injuries but Fraser gillies was just ignored after u18 level.

Irish schools rugby is organised along Provincial lines – i.e. Munster teams play only in Munster etc. The Leinster Senior schools cup, is a very high standard, some teams go to Southern Europe for warm weather training camps over Christmas for example. Leinster Academy has the pick of players emerging from these 16 schools with no competition. Occasionally a player like Sean O Brian emerges from the club system but these are rare enough. Good article for anyone who wants to know more by Robert Kitson in the guardian at the weekend. Leinster

I wonder if it’s all down to money or whether they’ve just got the systems right. (I know nothing about Irish academy systems…)

IJ, reasonable article here from the (Irish) Indo.

Just look at the list of players they’re turning out but also all these guys will (hopefully) have something to fall back on if pro-rugby doesn’t quite work out for them. I guess they go for high achievers who are both focused academically and sports-wise. Teach them a structure and time-management from when they’re young and at school, and it produces committed guys down the line who can dedicate themselves to the pro game but are no eejits either. Part of Joe’s legacy I think.

Eddie Jones has signed a contract extension until August 2021 with succession planning a key aim.

Not sure how I feel about this – he’s done a good job but surely we need to see where we are after the 6N / WC?

mindmap3 – there is a performance break clause in it so assuming we have a torrid time at the WC they can still replace him.

IJ, reasonable article here from the (Irish) Indo.

Thanks DD, interesting stuff.

3 weeks rest for Fatbastardau

Piuts him out of the opener* against Ireland in Paris doesn’t it?

Not the opener, just Ireland and France’s opener.

EDIT: Although, the 50% reduction for pleadibg guilty to the charge made me laugh a bit. He could hardly have denied it could he? 😆

Four weeks for the Hask.

So what is the English back row going to look like, with Haskell and Vunipola out? (Only for the first couple of games for Hask of course.)

I think TJ is talking about a different forum.

I was . I use a rugby forum that is multinational but unfortunately is dying because of troll activity. I was hoping someone off here also used one they could recommend

So what is the English back row going to look like, with Haskell and Vunipola out? (Only for the first couple of games for Hask of course.)

My guess is that Robshaw will end up back at seven, Lawes or Itoje to six and eight? Simmonds or Mercer I would guess. They need to get the balance right; Haskell, Robshaw and Billy worked really well in Australia and we’ve struggled to field anything similar since due to injuries etc.

What about the Hobbit at 7 with Robshaw 6 and an 8 at 8?

Gents … slight thread hi-jack… but thought here was he best place for it.

I’m going to my first EVER rugby training session tomorrow night.

Will I die ?

Im fit and fast but old, mid 40s… could run a sub 4 hour marathon tomorrow and come a close 2nd behind the Pro footballer in the dads race on sports day … but would struggle to punch my way out of a paper bag. Having said that I used to play American football 20 years ago and I loved the contact (lets not get into that argument )

I’ve got lucky in a way … the local club is vsmall and are going to have a 2nd team for the first time next season. They’ll be starting in the lowest “merit” ??league possible… partly so the old boys at the club can still get a game.

So anyone has anyone else started playing late or still having a go mid 40s

Any tips ?

Firstly – you’re brave! I’m 40 this year and played in a charity game last year. I keep getting asked to run out for my club’s Vet team but it’s inevitable i would get injured which would be a real pain in the bum and stop me training, riding and coaching.

Training – Stay away from the psycho backrower, every team has one. Learn to tackle and ruck properly.

Game – sounds like you’ll be on the wing, stay there.

I think TJ is talking about a different forum. This one doesn’t suffer too much from trolls, apart from the odd intervention by some posters when they’re bored of the EU thread.

Another extraordinary coincidence even down to the wink. Your growing obsession is becoming creepy now deadly. Oh and just for you 😉

England back row is intriguing indeed. Perhaps we need to talk of back 5 now?!?

Interesting one on Haskell’s and Basteraud’s suspensions; 5live rugby correspondent made the point last night that Haskell’s 4 weeks for contact to the head was longer than Basteraud’s 3 weeks for use of abusive language, albeit it was pretty clear that it was homophobic language. Both bans started at 6 weeks, of course. So it seems contact with the head (whether accidental or not before the “intent” merchants weigh in – and to be fair to Haskell, while it was a red card offence, I don’t think it looked as bad as some of the more blatant stuff we’ve seen) is “worse” than use of homophobic language. I can’t see in the disciplinary report why Haskell was given a 33% reduction whereas Basteraud was given the maximum 50% reduction. Not making any judgement myself here for now, but maybe a bit of food for thought.

I dont really agree sparking someone that tall with a high tackle is not accidental in the sense that if a player is 6foot 5 theres plenty to hit below the chin and well sticks and stones and all that.

Wasn’t Basteraud responding to being insulted himself? Can anyone safely report what was said by both parties? (I understood he was called a faggot?)

Can anyone safely report what was said by both parties? (I understood he was called a faggot?)

I’m not sure what was said to Basteraud, but whatever he said back it finished with “****ing faggot”. (IIRC)

So it seems contact with the head (whether accidental or not before the “intent” merchants weigh in – and to be fair to Haskell, while it was a red card offence, I don’t think it looked as bad as some of the more blatant stuff we’ve seen) is “worse” than use of homophobic language.

Why is that a surprise? Albeit both are unacceptable, one can cause a serious injury the other is an insult. I guess the latter in certain circumstance could be elevated to emotional injury, but the former is surely worse?

One thing I noticed about Haskell’s tackle is how he jumped up off the ground into the tackle. What did he expect?

Also while I’m thinking about it. Marlers gypsy boy comment seemed worse as it was done to try a goad Lee. Fatbastardau had lost the plot a bit and just shouted something