Seems clear to me its your irrational hatred of Gatland he has the problem with.

Hate’s a strong word. I prefer despise. And if you’ve got a problem with people who despise Gatland then that’s an awful lot of people to have a problem with.

Gatland is a one dimensional coach as far as the northern hemisphere skill set is concerned.

Now most of the credible strong men outside of 4&5 arent available, hes left with Wales and Farrell jnr vs Ab’s and we all know how that story will go.

Im not looking foward to the tour tbh, it has the smell of another NH whipping by the time the clubs have had a go.

Hate’s a strong word. I prefer despise.

Same same, but different.

Anyway, getting back to the question, I’d be glad if any of the non-Lions-supporting Scottish element could enlighten me as to how many of their boys would need to be selected in order for them to lend their support?

In absence of any hard evidence (yet) I’d suggest 3/4 test starters, 5/6 in the test 23 and 10/11 in the tour party would be sufficient?

It’s entirely possible that Hogg, Seymour (if he gets a run of good games) and Laidlaw (if he gets a run of other 9s being injured) could all start the 1st test.

Namaste
As a non native born scot that article linked to pretty much sums it up. for a generation the best scots players have consistently missed out. Its all a bit odd but as any real fan will know – its whats in your heart.

This time around for the lions? Hamish Watson is the stand out who should have gone. Best 7 this six nations. The others are more marginal calls Gray Brothers, Dunbar, Taylor, Barclay. It would be nice to see more than a token one or two

Its was just so predictable and dreary that the best scots would be overlooked. As soon as Gatland was named coach it was obvious.

The level of delusion here is quite wonderful and the ability to create a narative where Hamish Watson is the best 7 in Britain and a double grand slam and lions series winning coach is too stupid to see it due to his anti scots bias is lovely.
As a side note Watson is not as good as James Davies and he’s not even on the Welsh tour to Tonga.
I’ll just carry on looking forward to some quality rugby. Hell I even supported the Lions when Woodward pick Titteral!!

TJ

Whilst I agree it’s disappointing when one’s favourite players don’t get picked there does seem to be a collective paranoia from the Scots that there’s a conspiracy going on. Which there isn’t.

Scotland had been pretty sh1t for about 15yrs until the Cotter led resurgence of late. If a team is very poor it’s harder for individuals to stand out and thus get picked.

Scotland were unfortunate that some of their best players were in the most heavily contested positions. Watson was unlucky but Warbs and Tips have both performed at a high standard for longer. Scotland also beat Ireland but they beat the ABs and England this year – two sides who did/would hammer Scotland.

I think Launchbury should be on the tour but I’m still supporting the Lions – as I would if the test XV had no Englishmen.

Guys – what you don’t understand its that this has been happening for a generation or more. go back to guys like Jason White

AA = Watson was clearly the best 7 in the 6N – his stats show it. He made more carries for more yards, more turnovers, more tackles with less missed. But Gatland takes all his favourite players even if out of form and / or injured

Scotland clearly were a better team than Wales this year. Yet look at the representation.

When you only get a token representation then it hard to get behind the eam

AA = Watson was clearly the best 7 in the 6N – his stats show it. He made more carries for more yards, more turnovers, more tackles with less missed. But Gatland takes all his favourite players even if out of form and / or injured

Stats dont meam shit. Warburton was outstanding playing out of position at 6 and Tipuric is simply a better player too. Trying to make out Watson is a clearly better player than a Lions series winning captain and that a decent professional coach cant see what you can by looking at a few stats makes you look bonkers I’m afraid.

Scotland clearly were a better team than Wales this year.

Tell me again how this clearly better side did v England? The pressure came on and they collectively shit the bed those attributes wont be needed in NZ.

AA – could equally say your blind adherence to these guys makes you look bonkers 🙂 Lets not fall out about it. I am trying to explain why, to me and others, the lions no longer feels like “our team” Not to rehash allthe selection debates

Yes each decision over selection over the last 25 years could be seen as reasonable when taken in isolation. Same with this years decisions. Gatland has a 50/50 choice in a number of positions – does he go with the guy he knows and trusts?

~There have been years when we hardly deserved much if any representation – but over the years the scots players are consistently overlooked. This year given the comparative performance of Scotland and Wales the disparity of numbers selected looks unfair

But what we are talking about here is feeling like you have a stake in the team. I and others no longer do because time and time again the scots players get overlooked. Every 50/50 decision goes against the scot. The lions simply does not feel like “our team” Of course I will support them but its not that gutwrenching feeling all true fans ( of scotland ? 🙂 ) will know

You can’t change whats in your heart

Why would there be more scots? At least the welsh players can remember winning the odd grand slam and lions series in the dim and distant past,maybe he wants the mentality of people who can atleast remember winning something,saying that though i’m sure if the welsh players were completely honest they would admit to having a major mental block when it comes to N.Z.

Twickenham Tips?

A mate is a massive Wasps fan and has dragged me in to going to Twickenham this weekend.

Is it correct that I can tune my FM app on my phone to the commentary?
Any other tips? We have centreline seats.

AA – could equally say your blind adherence to these guys makes you look bonkers

You could but suggesting that Watson v Warburton is a 50 50 call is frankly bonkers.

Have I missed anything…..did we not have this conversation re Watson and back row some time ago…..????

Surely time to get on with the how are ‘we’ the Lions going to win.

Gatland got the gig – had our say for what it is worth – so for me I think we will miss Billy- went to Champions weekend and he was outstanding as was MAko.

More concerning was Laidlaw, who when he came on was so SLOW and ponderous itwill be interesting if he can get to any match fitness.

Laidlaw is a known quantity. Excellent pass but actual delivery can be slow and no threat around the fringes. Top notch kicker. Good tactical brain. He would be a good midweek captain but if he ends up starting the lions are in trouble 🙂

Billy is a big loss – no doubt at all. Haskell while a decent player is not the running threat that Billy is.

Yeah, I’m sure we had this arguement about the merits of the welshies and Scots a while back.

As a neutral to it, I feel well positioned to add some balance to it: your teams are both equally shite! 😆

Haskell while a decent player is not the running threat that Billy is.

Somewhere there is a goalpost who disagrees 😆

😀

Haskals call up was am odd one. Obviously Moriarty will be playing 8 and maybe SOB.
I remain less than convinced Vunipola would have worried the all blacks.

Mike Brown gained the most metres in the 6 nations, why isn’t he in the Lions – Scottish favouritism clearly.

Saw Moriarty playing the Friday for Glos against Stade, good solid game as did Morgan ( apart from his catching…) but the class of Parisee behind a good pack was evident, so some way to be convinced re Moriarty ( good player only going to get better) to Billy who looked pretty impressive even when running down a blind alley he managed to recycle.

Laidlaws time for me has passed, good player and good leader butScots looked better without him and accelerates Finn’s learning and responsibility taking.

Vondally – I don’t think we will see laidlaw play again for Scotland barring injuries. He misses the summer tour, 3 decent players vying for a starting berth. I don’t think there will be room for him. He is off to France for a last big payday is he not?

Correct TJ, and good luck to him well deserved.

I remain less than convinced Vunipola would have worried the all blacks

The worrying thing is that he’s head and shoulders above all of our other options. I confess not to have seen a lot of stander and SoB for their clubs but I’ve seen plenty of not Toby and moriarty and they aren’t even close to billy at any aspect of the game.
He’s rightly lauded for his carrying but he’s also exceptional under the ball, gets turnovers for fun, tackles like a monster and passes/offloads very well.

O’Brian had the potential to be a great number 8 early on but he ended up at 6 because coaches because Leinster and Ireland had Heaslip and you could get both on the pitch by playing SOB at 6. Not sure if he is an option there now at International level.

but I’ve seen plenty of not Toby and moriarty and they aren’t even close to billy at any aspect of the game.

I’m sorry but thats clearly bollocks, for starters Faletau is an excelent lineout option, faletau’s work rate over the 80mins is much better and his support running and passing is better. No doubt Billy is a big loss and I expect he’d have been starting 8 but the only thing he’s clearly better than Faletau at is carrying and whilst thats clearly pretty fundamentally important and Faletau is a very different beast but does have areas he’s better than Billy.

Except it’s not bollocks. Toby is an excellent player, there is no denying it but he’s not at not really that close to billy in most aspects

Nobody got any twickenham tips for me then?

Toby is an excellent player, there is no denying it but he’s not at not really that close to billy in most aspects

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Except thats not what you said. Take lineouts Faletau is a very good lineout option Vunipola isnt so your original assertion that no aspects are close is clearly bollocks although I suppose Faletau is so far ahead in this aspect that they arent close so you could be so wrong you’ve become right again 😉

Remind me AA who started as 8 for Wales in 6 nations?

Haskals call up was am odd one.

Gatland calling up a large boshing palyer into team is a suprise when?

Agree with the Billy V argument, even Moriaty in angry mode isnt as threatening, but Not Toby? Decent players yes, Billy V comparisons no.

Ok I’ll amend that Billy is better (and a good bit better) in all aspects except the line out. I’m sure a third option will be quite useful should they choose not to throw to Itoge, Kruis or AWJ.

Remind me AA who started as 8 for Wales in 6 nations?

Moriarty, Faletau was injured to start with and Moriarty was doing a good job having moved over from 6. He’s bang average though. Not Toby is a class rugby player though, Wales best player. Has had a poor season due to injury though he did come good for Bath at the end of the season. Obviously wrecker is blinkered by the fact he plays for Barf!!

Not at all. I am a great admirer of many barf players, and there is no jealousy as Steven Luatua is on his way to the gate believe it or not. Not Toby is absolutely class, stating that another is better is not equal to saying he’s shit. Billy V is in my (and many others) opinion, one of the very best, Not being his level is no insult.

Just checking the beeb for teams for tomorrow and noticed this. Now I like Steff Evans and it looked accidental but it was a stone cold red card how has it been rescinded, yes maybe the red was punishment enough but surely it was a red

Scarlets wing Steff Evans is free to play after the red card he received in the semi-final win over Leinster was rescinded by a disciplinary panel

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y64A507fKr0[/video]

Billy and Faletau are both class players who do most things very well. They just excel in different areas making it very difficult to say one is better than the other. Billy area of excellence is more eye catching but having seen Faletau for Bath a few times this year he is a very fine player indeed and I don’t think you can say one is better than the other.

In this day of high impact and higher injury count Toby could be well rested and rating to go but has he had enough match time and be match fit?

This element of match ready for international is fascinating now, Morarity clearly upped his game for some of the 6 nation matches and then was quieter in others. Billy played pretty much constantly good to very good for all of the 6 nations.

Toby is a class player and offers different options to Billy however for the all blacks I would have chosen Billy, just adds a yard in gainline and the space he can create for others by drawing opposition in as a positive.
Arguably in defence Toby is better?

Is Wood on the Engerland tour? Just trying to work out the length of ban he will get for a head stamp.

Just caught up with the Tom Wood incident. His reaction after the card was almost as unforgivable as the hit in the first place.