Hi all,
I’m currently riding a 2012 CAAD8, rocking a 9 speed sora groupset, I’ve upgraded the original wheels but thats about all.

I’ve been getting into racing and no aero TT’s this year and want to be more competitive next year and feel I would be quicker on a better bike.

I don’t want a carbon frame so looking at building an Allez or Caad10 frame up, most likely the Allez as my LBS is a specialised dealer and caad10 frames seem harder to get anyway. I want to build rather than buy as I want the bike built to my spec and fitted around me, I don’t want to buy a whole unit and be changing stem, bars and saddle ect, my LBS have said they are willing to offer the fit during the build process. I would like the build and fitting to be as competitive as possible (areo and weight wise) and use it solely for competition. Aluminium because of the risks to carbon while racing and also cheaper so more money to spend on components.
My questions are;

– On my current bike I feel too upright, do the above mentioned frames have more aggressive geometry or am I unlikely to notice the difference?

– Is the S Works Allez frame really worth £700 more than the matt black frame set, and why?

Appreciate this is a little long but thanks for reading and grateful for any advice.

The S-works allez last year was an entirley different frame , the headtube and the first inch ofo the top and down tubes are formed together then the tubes joined, supposedly much stronger/lighter/stiffer, but much more expensive too. And they only made a few of them.

However, the pic in this add looks like the same headtube, so I’ve no idea, maybe they’ve trickled the technology down, so I’ve no idea where the £700 goes now.
http://www.hargrovescycles.co.uk/specialized-allez-e5-frameset.html?gclid=CP_R_O6P8sACFY_ItAodMRQAQw

It’s definitely different to the lower end Allez framesets anyway, which I don’t think you can buy as a frame only.

Personally I don’t think there’s any more ‘risk’ associated with carbon whilst racing, if something’s going to break in a crash, it’s going to break. If I was worried about breaking it and after a cheap semi-disposable frame for racing, I’d just buy 2x Chinese carbon frames, and still have almost a grand spare Vs the cost of the S-works frameset! You’d (well, I’d) not give a second thought to the carbon fork in either of those frame choices, and that’s by far the most stressed part of the bike (I think).

I still ride a CAAD4 R500 from 2004 (with upgraded everything apart form the alloy/carbon fork, and the frame), because nothing I’ve demo’d has actually felt £1000+ better. They often feel better in some way, and if I transferred all my (nice, comfortable, fitted) bits onto a CAAD10 or SuperSix frame inplace of the OEM kit on the demo bikes it would probably feel better.

Having owned both an E5 Allez and a CAAD10 I’d say go for whichever gives you the right geo and tt length.

Both are excellent and build up light. My CAAD with Red 22 was sub 6.5kg

I’ve been getting into racing and no aero TT’s this year and want to be more competitive next year and feel I would be quicker on a better bike.

You really won’t go faster on a CAAD10. You will go faster with some lighter wheels, and you may change gears faster on 10 or 11 speed, but not much. I raced my son’s CAAD8 Tiagra earlier this season with my nice Giant Aero wheels and upgraded carbon bars and forks (I broke my TCR frame in a race), and it wasn’t the bike frame holding me back 😉

The CAAD8 is an excellent frame and and fine base for racing at any level. CAAD10 has a shorter headtube, but the same geometry and is a little lighter. Carbon bars, seatpost, and 35-45mm carbon wheels would be a better upgrade.

On my current bike I feel too upright,

How much of the race are you on the drops? Is the stem too short? Have you slammed the stem as in the photo above – it’s a tall top spacer on the headset that can be replaced for a flat one if desired.

feel I would be quicker on a better bike.

You won’t. Not to any noticeable extent – even the wheels mentioned above won’t make a huge difference. It’s good to have a nice bike, but don’t fool yourself – it’s not about the bike!

On my current bike I feel too upright,

So get your fit sorted (by changing your stem and/or spacers) before spending lots of money.

When you say a “better” bike, what new components do you think will make you go faster, given that you have already upgraded your wheels?

You want a quality alu frame, but with respect, you already have one 🙂

So you already have:

1. A good frame, in your preferred material
2. The right finishing kit for you
3. Decent wheels

It sounds like if you just upgraded your groupset, you’d get the bike you want!

Of course, you don’t have to rationalise a new bike purchase. If you want one, just get one, but don’t pin your hopes on a new machine, very similar to you old machine, making you much faster!

As for building your own, I think you’ll find that it would be more expensive, even after adding your own bars/stem/saddle etc. Given that you will already have at least some of those parts, I personally would be inclined to buy a complete bike and either specify your ideal stem length etc in the original purchase (a decent dealer will do this for you) or just swap out for your own when you get the bike home.

Of course, once again, building a bike is fun and interesting but if you’re using new parts, will usually work out more expensive than an off-the-shelf bike.

Kudos to you for racing, though. I don’t have the bottle for it. Or the legs 🙂

As far as I can tell the S Works and cheaper frames are the same, other than the S Works has ceramic BB included and seat post and fork from the Tarmac.

The stem on my current bike has been changed and think it’s 120mm running inverted and slammed. The upgraded wheels are Campag Zonda’s which have totally changed the feel of the bike and I can honestly say they a notably quicker. I went for lighter rather than deeper but feel deeper rims would be an advantage on a new build.

Re racing on the drops, it depends on where I am, generally in TT’s always on the drops unless going uphill.

You want a quality alu frame, but with respect, you already have one

It’s a good point!
Agree on the group set upgrade, the weight and lack of 2 extra gears is something I’d like to change. A new frame would obviously be lovely but is expensive for marginal if any gains if what you are saying is correct, and as much as I’d like to say it isn’t is probably is!

Re building agree it will most likely to be more expensive but I would like a bike that is tailored to me and fits perfectly.

If you don’t already own one, spending your money on a power meter and a coach will produce a very satisfying increase in performance.

I don’t think road bikes are that much cheaper off the peg compared to a custom build, depends how much you value the frame, but even the CAAD10 105 is £500 more than the frame (£799, vs £1299), for a £310 groupset (and still downgraded cranks and brakes, and it’s the 10s groupset, merlin are selling the 11s for £310), £100 wheelset and OEM bar/stem/post/saddle which you could probably pick up comparable kit for £10-£20 each, add some tyres and you’re still under the full bikes price, or you could spend a bit more and actually buy the bits you like and not lose money trying to sell the OEM bits. And especially as you’ve already got a very good frame.

This is mine, the build (on your current frame/forks) would probably be under the UCI limit.
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=106624

If I were you I’d get a new 105 groupset, find some bars you like and some matching finishing kit, a nice light saddle you get on with, and some deep/fat carbon wheels from china. You’d probably be on the UCI limit, aero enough for it not to be an excuse and several hundred quid under budget (of not £thousands, dunno what your budget was), which would pay for a coach!

Good choice of bikes, but have you looked at Kinesis Racelight Aithein?
lighter than Cadd10 I believe.

Done a custom build for a junior riders, worked out cheaper as he have to swap gears etc over anyway.
Also Custom build is not that much more than off the peg, choose you contact points and you get what FITS you, like bar width, stem length, cranks and also you choose what gearing you like from the start, etc and full groupset, no cassette/brakes/cranks downgrades like a lot “off the peg” bikes do.
Also if you got wheels you can transfer them across.

The S-W frame uses a lighter tube set with thinner walls and shorter butting sections. It also says ‘S-Works’ on it 😉

Whether this is worth the extra money over the non s-w ‘smartweld’ frames is debatable…pay your money, take your choice!

I had an Allez Elite before getting my first Tarmac, the more basic Allez frames with good wheels, finishing kit and drivetrain, well fitted to the rider makes a very competitive bike for racing or fast recreational riding

Or look at a canyon al slx. Come as frame or full bike and they are selling off the 2014 models.

I have one and it’s very nice