Hi,

I’m thinking about changing the Askium One wheels on the Cube Agree for some Campagnolo Zondas which I can get for about £220.

I used to have Scirrocos on my old road bike and really liked them but will the upgrade to the Zondas from the Akiums be noticeable and worth it?

Mavis Askium One – 1825g
Campagnolo Zonda – 1550g

I would say yes, wheels make the most difference on a road bike IMO and 275g will feel faster.

I have an older Aksium and it is a fair bit more than the quoted weight.

Could hold true for the Zondas of course, but if the difference really is 300g thats pretty good for £200. And you’ll have some winter training Aksiums.

I asked the same question a few months ago (also had Aksiums although I got the Zonda equivalent Fulcrums), I ignored those telling me it wasn’t worth it as I has an itch to scratch but they were right, it wasn’t worth it. Fulcrums are nice and all but not worth the cost upgrading. Think mine were also listed at 1550 but weighed 1610 in reality, my guess is you need to go sub 1500 for it to be worthwhile.

It’ll make a small difference, but only really when accelerating or on long hills. Where and how you ride will dictate the benefit you get.

Also check your tyres and tubes. I swapped the OEM tyres and tubes on a Cube and saved more weight (80g a tube, 100g a tyre) than changing to a fancy wheelset. Do both for double whammy.

Are the wheels you’re looking at stiff too?

Definitely worth it for me if so, but I love the snappy acceleration you get from lighter wheels – and do quite a bit of climbing

I changed my MTB wheels and went from 1900g to 1450g and it was definitely noticeable. It is not just acceleration it is also manoeuvrability.

Whether it was £180 noticeable or made any real world difference in my climbing time is another matter but it was noticeable nonetheless.

imo if it will make your cycling more fun, and if you can afford it go for it. I can definitely notice the difference between my wheelsets. There is more than just going fast, comfort, acceleration, stiffness, reliability and looks all play there part in any upgrade.

You wont notice the difference in weight at all…

… but Campag hubs are far smoother than Mavic at that sort of price bracket so its a worthwhile upgrade in that sense.

Wheel weight arguments are irrelevant without knowing where that weight is saved, ie hubs, rims or spokes as its all about rotating mass rather than “dead” weight like the frame or touch points.

Good quality tyres and latex tubes are easy weight saving measures and affect rotating mass so you stand more chance of noticing the difference.

Wheel weight arguments are irrelevant without knowing where that weight is saved, ie hubs, rims or spokes as its all about rotating mass rather than “dead” weight like the frame or touch points.

Apart from the fact I notice dead weight changes. Do you really not notice when you lighten your bike by 1kg for example?

1kg possibly, 295g certainly not.

But thinking about it I start a sportive with two 550ml bidons full of water, when I finish I am usually empty, (ok, some of the fluid is now in me but then I assume I lose a bit of weight on a long ride too?).

Now 1100ml of water is 1.1kg, do I consciously notice the difference between the weight of the bike at the start of the ride and at the finish? no.

It’s relatively good value for the weight saving. Work out how much above 6.8kg your bike is and whether, over the course of time as and when you can afford it, saving weight until you hit 6.8kg at that cost/kg would be worth it for you.

Do the tyres as well if you have cheapish ones on at the moment though.

For me yes. I notice when I switch between my training and race wheels which is about the same difference.

When I went from Aksiums to RS80s a few years back I also changed from Duranos to 23mm Conti GP4000s some lighter rim tape (stan’s yellow), lighter tubes and some ti skewers. I think the wheel weight alone would have been noticeable but the other changes knocked off nearly another 200g per wheel.

You wont notice the difference in weight at all…

… but Campag hubs are far smoother than Mavic at that sort of price bracket so its a worthwhile upgrade in that sense.

Id say the weight may well be noticeable. Smooth bearings? – no way.

Neither actually any faster.

80p per gram saved. Sounds like good VFM I reckon. Go for it!

You won’t notice. Tyre and tube choice will make a bigger difference than weight – 1800g is not that heavy. I’ve switched from original Giant pSLR-aero wheels to new 350g lighter all-carbon pSLR-aero wheels. Same bearings, similar aero profile and stiffness, no obvious difference in performance despite the saving in weight.

😆

If that 300g (or is it 275g?) is all in the rims, then assuming a rider weight of 70kg and a bike weight of 8kg, that 300g weight saving will result in 0.8% faster acceleration.

You reckon you can notice a 0.8% difference in acceleration?

no obvious difference in performance despite the saving in weight.

Weight gives negligible performance benefit.

You reckon you can notice a 0.8% difference in acceleration?

Yep, and I can also notice that the wheels are light when steering, moving the bike around etc,.

What is clear is that weight matters more to some that others. For those that say you won’t notice would they notice the difference between a 15kg bike and a 7kg bike, presumably not as it is still just weight (just a bit more)?
What is your cut-off where you can feel it 500g, 1KG, more/less

Same argument for being faster. Given same power would you be faster if bike and rider weighed 40KG versus 80KG. So while 1KG may not make a massive difference it is not true to say it will make absolutely no difference.

How much you care and how much you are willing to spend is totally up to the individual. Me, I am very happy with my 8KG MTB thanks.

Yep, and I can also notice that the wheels are light when steering, moving the bike around etc,.

No you can’t, all you are noticing is the latter.

It’s well established that the weight loss that is achievable gives **** all performance benefit, but can be felt.

a 300g difference in weight gives negligible performance benefit.

FTFY. Drop a kilo off the wheels (which is just about possible these days) and you will notice every uphill acceleration. The difference I will notice, however, is in the rain because the old wheels have alloy braking surfaces and the new ones errr… may or may not stop 😉

So the general concensus is that I will not notice any difference?

i disagree, i know the difference between a 1450g summer whilst and a 1750 winter set.
me, would happily pay more for the lighter wheels.

I like the feel of lighter wheels regardless if they’re quicker or not.

Drop a kilo off the wheels (which is just about possible these days) and you will notice every uphill acceleration

Of course you’ll notice it, that doesn’t mean it’s making a significant difference speed wise (beyond the overall weight loss v gravity part)

You are confusing speed with feeling, odd for someone who measures everything but common among roadies.

On and on has it imo.

If that 300g (or is it 275g?) is all in the rims, then assuming a rider weight of 70kg and a bike weight of 8kg, that 300g weight saving will result in 0.8% faster acceleration.

You reckon you can notice a 0.8% difference in acceleration?

Don’t you ever learn?

I can notice and will pay for a 300g weight saving, even better if the new wheels feel great and look bling.

It might also depend on how you are riding. On a steady long ride or a club run I’ll normally ride my heavier training wheels even in good weather. It is only really when racing that I notice much. Hill climbs when I’ve also removed as much weight from me and the bike in the run up, road racing with constant acceleration, corners and hills. There is also a mindset change with putting the racing wheels on the bike and pinning a number on…

What cynic and on and on said. I have Ultegra which are pretty light, and Light Bicycle carbons which are 300g lighter, plus using lighter latex tubes with them.

Ridden back to back I can definitely feel the difference; throwing the bike side to side climbing out the saddle, swerving pot holes, certain corner speeds its almost unnerving, feels like having no wheels in terms of loss of gyroscope.

Faster? No, as they’re no more aero which is where all my energy is actually being used.

I love climbing and like light feeling bikes so to me its money well spent. I’d rather have a light “climbers” bike than an aero bike, despite all the science and experts saying the aero bike is faster. Fitting tri bars would be a huge performance advantage, but would also be a heinous abomination.

OP, the choice is yours.

£200 to make a small improvement to your bike, so small that there’s a good chance you won’t notice even if you ride somewhere hilly.

( and then, you’ll need to occasionally use your old wheels to remind yourself of the benchmark)

The performance benefits of saving 300g are probably less than the benefit of not staying up all night arguing the toss on teh Internet with arseholes like me.

I say go for it, but only after you’ve bought some really nice tyres and brake blocks*.

(*you’ll need them to reduce wear on your lovely new rims)

Op, if you’re anywhere near fleet in Hampshire I’ll let you try some 1200 grams 1400 gram and 1600 gram wheels if you want to see how they feel.

On my 50 mile loop they all clock very similar times but the 1400 gram 28mm deep alloy wheels feel the best.
They’re American Classic spring 350’s if your interested.

They have a 350 gram rim. The 1200 gram wheels have a 21mm 310gram rim but aren’t as stiff or as nice to ride.

BS. 2.5% difference in acceleration now – but that’s still below the threshold of normal human detection of changes, even if you were able to keep your power output constant to within 2.5%

That people imagine feeling differences which don’t exist? I already knew that, thanks.

So you really don’t think you would notice if you replace 1KG tyres with 500g tyres?

Still 1 KG overall and still just the 2.5%. I can say without doubt that I can feel that. I can feel better acceleration from standstill, bike steers and moves better – just better overall.

The fact it may make me faster by 1 second a mile or whatever I agree I won’t notice but that is not the question.

Again, whether that difference in feel is worth it is personal and can only be quantified by the individual.

The way I look at it is that I only end up with an 8kg bike rather than a 10kg bike by reducing 600g on wheels, 150g on bars, 150g on seat etc,. etc,. ending up with a bike that is 5% rider/bike difference.

Is that nearer to your threshold now…

Massive thread hi-jack and highly tangential, but something I was wondering about, say you knocked a significant amount of weight off your bike, 1.5kg for example, could you run a bigger front chainring and climbing not be any harder?

Fwiw I agree with kerleys count the grams and the kilos look after themselves philosophy

At a guess, you will feel something, all other things being equal.

I have ridden those Zondas and they’re very fast, rather brutally stiff, but very fast.

How they compare to your existing wheels… very hard to quantify.

I recently saved about 400g per tyre. The difference was like night and day

I can’t believe some people saying you can’t “feel” the difference in lighter wheels !!! Absolutely agree you’ll only be tiny bit faster but unless the bike is an absolute tank it’ll definitely ( that word again ) feel lighter and zippy, especially when you stand up and accelerate whilst pulling on the bars. For experienced cyclists to say they don’t notice this leaves me more than a bit confused 🙁

I’ll say yes if the frame can handle the change.
I run 1700g wheels and race 1400g and sub 1100g wheels. They all feel the same when just riding, but come into their own when under the cosh.
When you race the same circuits week after week year in year out you can feel the difference.
I’d leave the 1700g’s on for a week in the Pyrenees, unless I was doing another fondo out there, then I’d stick the 1400g’s on. If five Tour summits in one day doesn’t drive home the benefits of 300g’s off the wheels then nothing will.
But day to day? Then I think it’s more down to the wheels being better due the extra quality that comes with dearer wheels.

I think it’s also really important to consider where the weight is located.
Quite a few wheels look to be a decent weight but the rims are relatively heavy with lightweight spokes and hubs / free hub milled to nothing. Sure they are still light weight but perhaps won’t feel as impressive as a lighter rim on a slightly heavier hub.

One of the best wheelsets I ever ran was the campagnolo eurus – they were rock solid, didn’t flex, felt great and they span forever. They were 1550g.

Zonda’s bearings are fantastic.