In need of a new road frame/bike and fancy having a play with fixed. It’ll be used for commuting which is about 16 miles each way, albeit with a fairly lumpy climb at the start/end as I go up coombe lane on the north downs for those that know it. I’d also like disc and decent tyre capability ie 28c. My worry is that the climb will become annoying on a fixed and i’ll want to flip back to gears, hence the hesitancy against just opting for a PaddyWagon or equiv.

Only frames I can think of at the moment are the Surly Straggler disc (is that a bit of a lump?), Soma Wolverine or Niner RLT9 with the latter being right at the limits of budget.

Views on the Surly would be appreciated if anyone has experience?

If you get a road frame with push fit bb you can run it like an eccentric bb.

I think.

Maybe

I dunno

I’m sure I read it once

boom

I think Kinesis do something that can run fixed or geared..might be wrong though!

Not sure I’d fancy an eccentric bb on fixed..
The hardest thing on fixed is the descents..well it is for me.

You should probably just get a fixed gear because they’re great.

I did wonder about the PF30 eccentric BB route. I have used a full on eccentric before on a Swift, I assume there is enough movement in Wheels version to work properly?

And why would an eccentric have any bearing on whether it is fixed or not. Assuming the bearings are running smoothly then it shouldn’t make any difference should it?

I used to have a Surly Crosscheck (the non-disc version of the Straggler) before it got pinched.
It was a lump but had a nice, if a bit noodly, ride. It’s certainly not like a modern, stiff road racing bike.
Big tyres + mudguards are possible.

Does the frame have to be new? There are lots of older, nice steel frames on eBay with horizontal dropouts which could be run both fixed or geared. My recommendation would be to find a Merckx Corsa Extra for about £300. Look on eBay or LFGSS.

There are lots of older, nice steel frames on eBay with horizontal dropouts which could be run both fixed or geared

My problem with that is that I really want the disc option.

I’m not necessarily after road racing bike. I guess the ideal would be something like a Mason Definition but with fixed option.

Turns out googling for road frames with PF30 BB is harder than I imagined 😕

Fixed applies a lot of force on the drive train, I’d be worried about the BB slipping…I’m sure wheels manufacturing will advise, there stuff is good.

A Straggler will be a bit of a lump in the sense of not being your average lightweight road bike, but that won’t matter. A fixie instantly saves a pile of weight by its nature, and you’ll have the advantages of a frame that can be converted to almost any application you can fathom and will stand up to a ton of abuse. (I had a Cross Check and, other than a couple of small niggles that are sorted by the Straggler, I loved it to bits.)

As above, don’t worry about the climbs, they’re fine. It’s the descents that you need to worry about 😉

Note that vertical dropouts (ie sliders or EBB) are generally much easier to live with if you decide to go back to gears. Horizontals and track ends are more faff and require either a nutted hub or a decent tug. Not sure how the Straggler dropouts fit into that, I’ve not used them.

I’m now recalling descending on my fixed gear. 140rpm was manageable, but above 145rpm was a bit lot terrifying 😯

I’m now recalling descending on my fixed gear. 140rpm was manageable, but above 145rpm was a bit lot terrifying

9 years of commuting fixed. i’m fairly comfortable up to 160 and hit 201 roller racing recently! 😯

Yeah, but you don’t have Surrey potholes, scarpering deer, or complacent drivers emerging from side roads when you’re roller racing…

9 years of commuting fixed. i’m fairly comfortable up to 160 and hit 201 roller racing recently!

I’m impressed. I can hit 155 on a spin bike at the gym with no fear of consequences, but 200 is insane.

Yeah, but you don’t have Surrey potholes, scarpering deer, or complacent drivers emerging from side roads when you’re roller racing…

very true!!

OP just want to check you realise fixed and (modern) road wheels are different widths. you can build 130mm / 135mm wide fixed hubs but most stuff will be 120mm off the shelf.

actually can you get 135mm disc fixed hub?

EDIT: surly make one. or your looking at biketrials stuff.

The fact that you are struggling to find something that fits your criteria, probably tells you that you are making a mistake in trying to fulfil them with one bike/frame. Bikes are usually a compromise, where we prioritise some types of riding and equipment choice over others, but sometimes you compromise too much and the result is a bike that is not that good for either purpose, and not good value for money because of the limited niche choice and consequent pricing by manufacturers.

If you’ve got the space it will be far simpler to get a second hand older steel frame with horizontal dropouts as nerd suggests (or a Pompino frame or similar), and build it up as a dedicated fixed gear with bargain bin parts. You might even get lucky and pick such a frame built up as a fixed (or singlespeed) on ebay from one of the many people who try fixed and cannot get on with it.

The advantages of this are:
– if you don’t get on with it, you can probably sell the frame/bike without making much – if any – loss
– you don’t have to mess about converting a bike from fixed to geared and back (remove/fit/re-index derailleurs, remove/fit cranks, pedals and bottom bracket, remove/fit chains, remove/fit gear cables)
– a good quality older steel frame will give a nicer ride than something like a Surly or a Pompino. You don’t want a fixed bike to be any heavier than it needs to be
– by the same token, you absolutely do not need or want discs on a fixed gear bike, and a 531 fork will probably give a nicer ride than a fork designed to cope with the forces of a disc brake
– you will have a much wider choice (and better value for money) of geared bikes with disc brakes if you do not restrict your choice to a bike with a frame which can also be run as a fixed gear.

Two bikes may also have another advantage: you haven’t said anything about luggage or taking a change of clothes, but I would prefer not to ride fixed with panniers, a backpack or even a large saddlebag. Having a geared bike as well with a rack and paniers would presumably allow you to use that to transport clothes etc. which you could leave at work for the days you decide to ride fixed.

Note that vertical dropouts (ie sliders or EBB) are generally much easier to live with if you decide to go back to gears.

Thanks Bez, input appreciated. The Surly dropouts appear to be a strange hybrid system that uses horizontal drops with stop screws to keep the wheel in place, front and rear on the drive side. The drops also release forward which I believe makes things easier with mudguards. I’m also no racing snake so the weight is perhaps not such an issue. And as you mention, with the ‘classic’ surrey roads I would rank comfort above a super lightweight alu racing machine anyway.

If I’m honest I have been watching Patrick Seabase haul up climbs a little too much of late and have visions of emulating that in the surrey hills 😳

Edit Thomthumb

surly make one. or your looking at biketrials stuff

Thanks, but yes, I had spotted the Surly disc fixed hub which was central to my plans.

The advantages of this are:
– if you don’t get on with it, you can probably sell the frame/bike without making much – if any – loss
– you don’t have to mess about converting a bike from fixed to geared and back

My experience is that sticking gears on a bike is a whole lot less hassle than selling one and then starting again from scratch. YMMV.

– a good quality older steel frame will give a nicer ride than something like a Surly or a Pompino. You don’t want a fixed bike to be any heavier than it needs to be
– by the same token, you absolutely do not need or want discs on a fixed gear bike, and a nice 531 fork will probably give a nicer ride than a fork designed to cope with the forces of a disc brake

“Nice” is subjective and depends on a lot of things. The above may well be true for small people, but IME it’s not for big people. Old steel frames are generally alarmingly flexible in big sizes; having had four Surlys of varying tube profiles in ~62cm sizes, I wouldn’t want more flex (in fact in the case of the slimmest one, the Pacer, the front end flex was one of the main reasons I eventually parted with it).

A rear mudguard is useful on a fixed.

On a steep downhill you can clip out and rest your feet on it. That’s what we used to do on winter club runs many decades ago.

One of our club couldn’t get his feet out of his clips’n’straps (with plates) on the winking man hill between Buxton and Leek. He got bucked and spent the next few days in hospital.

Getting back in is a bit like Russian roulette though.

Slowster – thanks, the thought crossed my mind re just getting a fixed and running it as such. I have been browsing ebay but at 6ft 4 ish I’m at the top end of height range so not that much seems to come up. That said I don’t envisage losing a fortune if I was to buy a Kona Paddywagon / Genesis Flyer and find its not for me. I know TiRed raves about the Paddywagons.

And re clothes. I drive three days a week so I take stuff in with me on those days.

I have a couple of fairly reasonable descents to deal with on the route so definitely want brakes and have a massive preference for discs in the wet winter muck because I prefer the braking consistency.

On a steep downhill you can clip out and rest your feet on it. That’s what we used to do on winter club runs many decades ago.

Or…..

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Iz7ZMALaCY[/video]

Any decent old steel frame with horizontal forward dropouts will be fine. Some flex in a steel frame adds to the comfort.

I’d like a rear facing dropout, with built-in derailleur hanger, but no cable stops. So run eTap. Then I’d add cable splitters for the rear brake so the bars and shifters can be removed as one. Or I’d run blips and blip box so the shifting can be taken off very easily.

Disclaimer. Just fitted eTap aero to my steel TT bike. It’s a game changer and removal of the RD and chain is a five minute job. I’d leave the FD on for a fixed conversion as alignment takes longer. I will be removing all cable bosses come respray time.

I’ve been thinking about trying fixed for a while and always planned on using a white ind. eccentric hub. Is this not a good idea? They say they can be used for fixed duties?

In June, I completed a 1200km brevet that incuded the grimselpass, the simplonpass, ‘something stupidly steep and long in Italy’, Montgenevre, Ventoux and Mt. Aigoual…..there were guys on fixed, including Thierry st. leger (legend….) who didn’t have a flip flop! so was fixed descending these ‘slightly big hills’.

A week later we had a laughing group ride up Ventoux at night, and I rode with a guy who was on 50×19. His first major alpine climb fixed. Someone (riding alongside on a normal bike) tried to engage him in conversation on the descent…The re-telling and re-miming of it at the bottom over a beer had us all in stitches for hours.

The Surly dropouts appear to be a strange hybrid system that uses horizontal drops with stop screws to keep the wheel in place

Yeah, the logic behind them is fairly sound but I’d be looking round for people’s experience of how well they work in practice.

Broadly speaking there are the following things to consider when getting wheels in and out, none of which are an issue with vertical dropouts (including sliders and EBBs):

– whether the mudguard needs to be unhooked (an issue with track ends; mitigated a little by using Secu-clips or similar on the rear guard stays)
– whether the disc caliper needs to be moved out of the way (which is hopefully an issue that’s been confined to history)
– whether you actually have less tyre clearance than you think you do (eg with horizontal dropouts the wheel has to come forward and still clear the chainstay bridge, and this is exacerbated by a mudguard)
– preventing wheel slip under power (which requires a tug or retainer of some sort, which isn’t necessarily a huge deal but certainly adds to the faff of getting wheels in and out)
– lateral alignment of the wheel (discs being more sensitive to this than seatstay-mounted brakes)
– disc caliper setup (it takes a little care to perfectly align the pad with the braking surface of the rotor)

None of these are necessarily showstoppers, but they can sometimes be annoying. And if you end up with gears you might be less tolerant of the added faff compared to a conventional geared bike.

EDITED AS POSTED TWICE.

A week later we had a laughing group ride up Ventoux at night, and I rode with a guy who was on 50×19. His first major alpine climb fixed.

Ouch! Chapeau!

Unless it was Sault, in which case meh 😉

at 6ft 4 ish

In that case I guess Bez’s comment about ‘big people’ may be relevant, although it’s not just a matter of height but also weight (and power output). Bez did not define fully what he meant by ‘big’, but if a rider is carrying a lot of surplus ‘upholstery’, then I can imagine that a Surly which is intended to cope with heavy loads might be a good choice. Being overweight never feels good climbing hills on a bike, and in my experience riding fixed makes it feel even worse. Fortunately the problem is also the cure: ride a lot and you should lose weight.

FWIW I’m 5′ 10″ and <70kg, and ride a Pompino fixed, and it’s simply nowhere near as nice a ride as my other steel frames (531, 853 and 953), and I have plans for a custom fixed steel frame eventually.

Another advantage of two bikes, is being able to choose which bike to ride on any given day depending how you feel and the weather conditions. Some days, I just want to be able to freewheel down a fast swoopy hill, other times I prefer the fixed.

A week later we had a laughing group ride up Ventoux at night, and I rode with a guy who was on 50×19. His first major alpine climb fixed.
Ouch! Chapeau!

Unless it was Sault, in which case meh

We did Sault-Chalet Reynard-Ventoux-Maulacene. So yeah, he’s a bit of a softie!….

And as we were writing another friend has just done Bedoin side. But he was on 42:22….

Bez did not define fully what he meant by ‘big’, but if a rider is carrying a lot of surplus ‘upholstery’, then I can imagine that a Surly which is intended to cope with heavy loads might be a good choice.

Well, big is both size and weight. Weight obviously means larger forces involved, but so does big: apply the same force across a longer lever and you’ve got a greater moment, so larger frames have more flex unless they use larger-diameter tubes. Hence a skinny 12st rider on a 62cm frame will experience more flex than a tubby 12st rider on a 54cm frame. Ride all you want, you might lose a bit from Daddy Pig’s Tummy of Pure Muscle but you won’t make your bike smaller 😉

We did Sault-Chalet Reynard-Ventoux-Maulacene. So yeah, he’s a bit of a softie!….

To restore his honour, he had to come down Malaucene fixed, and there’s a 50mph+ section on that… (which is now a nasty speedwobble-inducing washboard since the resurfacing).

Agree on two bikes with a fixed specific bike.
One of the appeals of fixed to me is the simplicity of the bike and the clean lines with no brake levers, cables etc,. and that would be lost using a bike with 2 discs, mech hangers, cable guides etc,.

Fixed gear bikes can be built up more cheaply than a few years ago now they are not fashionable which is an added bonus.

‘big people’ may be relevant, although it’s not just a matter of height but also weight (and power output).

I’m around 95 – 100kg. I don’t carry a huge amount of fat, no belly as such and I’m relatively fit but I could certainly be fitter and leaner. I suspect I carry a disproportionate amount of weight in my upper body for a cyclist. More Richie Rude, less Chris Froome 😀

One more thing to think about: at 6’4″ in practice I think you’ll find far fewer suitably-sized frames in the dedicated fixie and old bike categories, whereas Surly and Soma are great at making frames in big sizes.

At that height, with a SS/fixie you’ll want a lot of reach and maybe (if it suits) a fair amount of stack, since you’ll be out of the saddle giving it the beans on a regular basis. A nice tight road frame stands a decent chance of knackering your back. Few things are big enough IME: certainly old frames tend to max out at about 59cm top tubes and things like the Pompino are also way too small (I’m a similar height and I briefly had an XL Pompino to see if it was big enough; it wasn’t, not by a long way).

White Bros ENO eccentric hub? Means you can run fixed/SS on virtually any frame. Might take a bit of working out initially how to get the rear disc at the optimum position. Once I decided on the right gear ratio, I’ve found that with a 1/8″ chain and sprocket, there’s virtually no drivetrain wear, so probably little need to adjust thereafter. I’ve dabbled with eccentric BBs too, the best one – Forward Systems is no longer made and the Exentriker isn’t quite as durable – both designed for a 68mm shell.

Tredz have a ‘nearly new’ 61cm Paddy Wagon for £431 here.

So the White Bros eccentric hub works fine for fixed duties? My plan remains intact.

slowster – Member
…If you’ve got the space it will be far simpler to get a second hand older steel frame with horizontal dropouts as nerd suggests (or a Pompino frame or similar), and build it up as a dedicated fixed gear with bargain bin parts. You might even get lucky and pick such a frame built up as a fixed (or singlespeed) on ebay from one of the many people who try fixed and cannot get on with it.

The advantages of this are:
– if you don’t get on with it, you can probably sell the frame/bike without making much – if any – loss
– you don’t have to mess about converting a bike from fixed to geared and back (remove/fit/re-index derailleurs, remove/fit cranks, pedals and bottom bracket, remove/fit chains, remove/fit gear cables)
– a good quality older steel frame will give a nicer ride than something like a Surly or a Pompino. You don’t want a fixed bike to be any heavier than it needs to be…

Totally agree.

Pompino is a cheap way in, and they are a nice bike and more useful than a dedicated fixed bike. It’s hard to lose money on one. The best knockabout bike you can buy IMO. A good way to find out if you like the idea, and get most of your money back.

If you want something classic, then it’s an older lugged bike for that fabled ride of steel. Just be aware using a rear brake on some of them can be a pain because you can flex the rear end enough to get brake rub on climbs.

A modern steel bike like the Fuji track is very good indeed, easily the equivalent of the quality classics in comfort and feel, and has the benefit of a higher BB – which you’ll appreciate when you need it. The older model with a 1″ fork felt more compliant to me, but I never rode them back to back, so it’s just an impression.

If you prefer an absolutely rigid rear end the Giant Bowery is good. I bought one to use in Australia when I was last over, and did plenty miles both on & off road on it. But you feel every millimetre sized bump.

mugsys_m8 – Member
So the White Bros eccentric hub works fine for fixed duties? My plan remains intact.

Rear brake adjustment can be a PITA (if you fit one, that is)

For a fixed you’re better off with a proper frame because of the higher BB – pedal strike can have you off in corners if the BB is too low. Because you cannot freewheel the pedals keep rotating and if you’re leaned over too far, ejection follows. 🙂

For a fixed you’re better off with a proper frame because of the higher BB

Get a Longitude and shove some 29+ tyres in it 🙂