(yes, yes, apart from my weak legs…)

I have a cross bike and a road bike. They weigh about the same and have the same top tube, seat tube and stem lengths.

The cross bike has a longer wheelbase and a shorter headtube and flies uphill.

The road bike is supposed to be a ‘racier’ geometry and I thought the short wheelbase was supposed to help uphill but it feels really sluggish.

I’m going to take out all the spacers to see if lower hands help but, otherwise, what makes bikes climb well?

Light wheels and a light powerful person to make them spin, would imagine slight differences in geo wouldn’t make as much difference as a lightweight wheelset

Interesting. I have a cross bike, a SS and a carbon flashy road bike which I bought as I wasnt finding my cx bike uncomfortable on long rides (and it needed new tyres and a bigger chain ring)…

Based on strava times so not exactly scientific….

I’m fastest on the CX bike, and only slower on the SS (over short distances) by a few minutes.

Top speeds recorded by speedo on long steady down hill (stanningley road into Leeds)
CX bike 51mph
road bike 49mph
SS 34mph

SO yeah, my fast road bike isn\t so fast. I wonder wether its a confidence thing, given that I’ve ridden thousands of miles on the cx as a commuter and my main road bike for the last 6 years, its solid and reliable and owes me nothing, where as the carbon road bike was very expensive (to me), is my first carbon bike and I’m terrified of breaking it?

as above wheel weight is noticable, being lower at the front doesnt make much difference at those speeds unless the position is so wrong your power is limited.

One other thing to consider would be gearing, my mate tends to climb fast than me despite similar bike and fitness because his standard forces him to climb fast compared to my compact spin up where i can relax (i would however expect this to work in favor of the road bike being faster)

Wheels, gearing, frame stiffness would all probably make more difference than geometry (given the geo will be fairly close). Worth timing things to as feeling sluggish doesn’t necessarily mean it’s slower. Wheels aside though I notice my fancy bike more on the flat/descents than the ascents, it’s much stiffer and more direct handling.

Meehaja

Recently,I have been faster downhill on my CX as it feels more stable.
It may be down to the geometry+fat tyres+ and that I ride it a lot more. The carbon road bike on the other hand feels more twitchy,so maybe I hold back a bit.
It does however ,go uphill like a rocket. 🙂
FWIW I think a lot of climbing is in the mind,I know a few people that should be brilliant climbers ,but they give up .

FWIW I think a lot of climbing is in the mind,I know a few people that should be brilliant climbers ,but they give up .

This, as well as the wheels issue.

I was having a good day Sunday I admit, but I passed several in our group sitting up, standing up, or changing down a gear, whereas I was able to keep a constant pace goingn throught out the climbs.

Thanks all.

Sorry – wheels and gearing are also the same (transferred across)

Cross is alu; Road is Columbus steel. As I said, weight is the same.

It might be feel but I doubt it – I am struggling on things I cruised up in the saddle last year. I’m not as fit as I was a few months ago but can’t imagine that I’ve lost this much ability.

Still a bit confused!

Fitness. Forget the ‘gram’ saving. Invest in turbo, gym and get out and train on hills. This will having a surprising affect of allowing you to climb hills easy. You cant buy your way out of the problem.

strong legs and a strong mind.

You cant buy your way out of the problem

But this way is a lot more fun and a lot less effort 😉

Other than the obvious overall weight (of bike and rider) I’d say short chain stays, longer stem, light wheel/tyre combo. Terrible generalisation though given the number of variables,

I think I’m a pretty good climber, proably one of the strongest in our club at the moment (yeah I know its winter and I’ll probably soon be left for dead….)

3 things spring to mind

1- Fitness, specifically gained on hills
2- Planning, ramp up your effort and plan to reach max efford near the top
3- weight of bike and wheels

Do you ride the CX bike up hills a lot more?

I find I get better at climbing on the bikes I’m riding most

I’d say that a alu CX bike would be a noticeably stiffer than a steel road bike which would make a difference. My slow cadence means that I climb much better on a bike with a stiff rear triangle, unfortunately that often but not always means it’s uncomfortable on longer rides.

Yeah, I ride a colombus airplane tubed track frame, stiff as a paedo in a nursery and absolutely rockets up hills but certainly beats up one’s arse on longer rides

Weight and stiffness are all that really matter, so that you waste less of your power output on lifting or bending the bike. Assuming your position is comfortable and efficent, geometry is pretty irrelevant for climbing.
However, the bike itself is still a relatively small part of what will make you climb well. It’s your fitness, and more specifically your power to weight ratio, that is most important.

Have you ridden the same climb under the same conditions on each bike within a day or two of each other? Sounds like you rode the CX last year when you were fitter, and have now moved everything to the road bike? You might benefit from a more direct comparison.

IME it doesn’t take long for your legs/lungs to lose some edge when it comes to climbing.

ormondroyd – Member
Do you ride the CX bike up hills a lot more?

Yes – the road bike is new. My cross bike is going from being a do-everything bike to just being a cross bike. Climbing was always my strength on the cross bike and I deliberately did hilly routes and left better riders for dead on climbs.

Stiffness is interesting. Now you mention it, I did hear a bit of brake rub when I was really fighting it.

I don’t really believe that frame stiffness is going to be a huge factor worth more than a few percent on a climb.

I do believe that muscle conditioning around a particular geometry, and simply knowing the “feel” of a bike on a climb can have a big difference. I definitely acquired much better ability to climb on my road bike just by doing it more.

I’m similarly confused as to why I was faster up climbs on my old remedy when I was unfit than when on my new carbon 29er and appreciably fitter.

tonyd – Member
Have you ridden the same climb under the same conditions on each bike within a day or two of each other?

Good point. Some objective testing required.

I’m not as fit as I was a few months ago but can’t imagine that I’ve lost this much ability

So how long has the gap been between riding one up a hill then riding the other up the same hill?

It might be feel but I doubt it – I am struggling on things I cruised up in the saddle last year. I’m not as fit as I was a few months ago but can’t imagine that I’ve lost this much ability.

i find i am much slower at this time of year, not really fitness but just the cold and dark. Same bike same route.

I bet that’s fun if you happen to drop into the drops 😯

When I learned that it was going to hurt a lot on long climbs and to just deal with it, I got faster. I FEEL faster on my carbon bike but actually I’m not, it just has a wider range of gears so the same speed up the hill is a little easier. Which actually means I COULD be faster but I’m not trying quite as hard. On my MTB I realised I was actually stopping climbs before I needed to and walking just because it was offroad, I never (well only twice actually) have done that on the road bike.

So what makes a good climber (assuming you’re not a pro) is practice and the mental aspect.

I do believe that muscle conditioning around a particular geometry, and simply knowing the “feel” of a bike on a climb can have a big difference. I definitely acquired much better ability to climb on my road bike just by doing it more.

This is an interesting point, however my gut feeling (nothing to back this up!) makes me think that stiffness, and then weight, play the biggest part in climbing. Of course, bike aside, climbing is hard so the mental aspect is massive.

short climb – power to weight
long climb – weight, endurance, technique and mental toughness

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDyLObj8W1U[/video]

Not sure it adds much to the argument, but I rode up Pool Bank in daylight for the first time this year and was a lot faster.

I can only conclude that either:

A) Dark is more viscous than light and slows you down.
B) My receding hairline is turning into a solar panel, powering my legs.

Certainly nothing to do with fitness improving…

Does wheel weight really matter? Heavier wheels have more flywheel effect which will even out the power impulses when climbing steadily.

I “feel” faster on the lighter wheels I have. Whether I am, I don’t really know.

Heavier wheels have more flywheel effect which will even out the power impulses when climbing steadily.

When pedalling with good technique @ 90 rpm are the power impulses even significant? Even if they are would this offset the advantage of lighter wheels?

Climbing you dont want a lower hand position, you want to be on the tops on the majority of climbs.
The most obvious influences would be if the gearing on your road bike does not allow you to pedal at your ideal cadence and differences in saddle fore and aft relative to the bottom bracket on the two bikes, similarly if you have different pedals, then differences in cleat position.

One of the largest effects from equipment is tyres and tubes. Latex tubes and nice vittorias will give you a bit compared to crappy rubber, certainly more than frame stiffness IMO.

Light wheels and a fixed wheel works for me on my 17lb track/hill climbing bike.

Otherwise it’s the mental fortitude of the engine.

Does wheel weight really matter? Heavier wheels have more flywheel effect which will even out the power impulses when climbing steadily.

That was my thought, on light wheels my bike feels different. In some ways it feels slower as you associate the stability of the flywheel effect with going fast.

FWIW I think a lot of climbing is in the mind,I know a few people that should be brilliant climbers ,but they give up .

How true. Going to save that for future use

There’s no doubt that lighter wheels feel faster (and accelerate faster). But I’d like to see some proof that they actually improve efficiency. I’m fairly certain that the reason heavier tyres feel slower is not because they’re heavy but because they cause more energy loss in the carcass compared to a lighter (and more flexible) tyre.

I’m fairly certain that the reason heavier tyres feel slower is not because they’re heavy but because they cause more energy loss in the carcass compared to a lighter (and more flexible) tyre.

I think this is in part an argument between better quality (more expensive) tyres and cheaper ones. Obviously cheaper ones tend to be heavier as well.

Light wheels and a fixed wheel works for me on my 17lb track/hill climbing bike.

Interesting. There is an annual hill climb near me (not done one before!) and I was considering putting together a (cheap) bike for it. Or is that cheating? I was definitely going to go for fixed/single speed (much difference?) on as light/stuff alu frame as possible. Obviously light wheels, could be fairly weak as they wouldn’t see much pounding/use, light/thin tyres. Do you even need brakes or a saddle (might be a bit extreme!)