Viewing 38 posts - 41 through 78 (of 78 total)
  • Road bikes; disc brakes the future??
  • smuttiesmith
    Free Member

    Shaved more speed off before the corner, so he’s not relying on panic braking mid corner when everything gets rather squirrely? The issue is as much that braking on carbon rims is pretty shit in the wet (as DR says) I’d say!

    Sorry, don’t see how better brakes would have given him better foresight to slow down more. Fact is he was trying to open a gap on the bunch and therefore was trying to carry as much speed as possible into the corners. As it goes his excess speed in very low grip conditions meant he was running wide for fear of slipping off if he leant it over anymore. He could have slowed down more with the brakes he had but chose not too as he was trying to go as fast as possible.

    It’s a well known feature of the roads in the giro that they are like glass in the rain.

    As others have said I live in an area of steep hills (the lakes) and I ride rim brakes. If the weather is bad I’m not chucking into the corners on descents so hard I need to panic brake. If you’re racing in bad conditions they will help but only if you ride to the limits of tyres. In this case the guy was past the limits of the tyres.

    nemesis
    Free Member

    I have always found tyres to be the limiting thing on a road bike in terms of stopping.

    People say that a lot. I’m not convinced it’s actually right even though as I’ve pointed out previously, discs aren’t really about power alone.

    If you grab a fist full of (road bike) front brake in the wet (and in a straight line – different if mid bend but then modulation is even more important), I reckon you’ll still endo rather than skid the front wheel which suggests that actually grip isn’t the limiting factor – on the front at least – rear brakes are obviously easy to lock.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    if you look at Giant, their 2015 Defy SL (with the integrated seat post) is the lightest road frame they have ever made

    Actually, I believe it was their rim-braked version held that accolade, not much changed except a seatpost that can take a Di2 battery 😉 . Of course the disk version has yet to win Paris-Roubaix, so I shall wait for the new provenance before I replace mine 😉

    Bigger issue for me is swapping wheels between bikes.

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    chakaping
    Free Member

    I would probably swap my rim-braked defy for that SL, for full disclosure.

    dirtyrider
    Free Member

    Sorry, don’t see how better brakes would have given him better foresight to slow down more. Fact is he was trying to open a gap on the bunch and therefore was trying to carry as much speed as possible into the corners. As it goes his excess speed in very low grip conditions meant he was running wide for fear of slipping off if he leant it over anymore. He could have slowed down more with the brakes he had but chose not too as he was trying to go as fast as possible.

    crashtestmonkey
    Free Member

    In 5 years time when axle standards have settled down and the pros are racing them it will be as redundant an argument as MTB wheel size. Rim brake fans can scream at the dying of the light but the market will have moved on.

    I’ve just spent 450 quid on carbon rim braked wheels, and all my MTBs are 26″ so I am conservative (small C) not an early adopter, but discs offer manufacturers the same opportunity as wheel size – forcing you to replace as much as possible.

    atlaz
    Free Member

    I’ve got two road bikes one disc one rim brake. I can pretty easily lock the wheels on both in the dry if I try for shits and giggles. I rarely lock the wheels on either when I’m actually riding. The only benefit of the disc brakes is if it’s wet I don’t have to guess about how much stopping power I have and the modulation of the brakes is just about tyre grip not a combination of guessing how the wet rims and tyres go.

    smuttiesmith
    Free Member

    @dirtyrider

    I didn’t realise that better brakes stop people over cooking it into corners when they are racing. that will be why no ever crashes in bad weather in corners in F1 or Moto GP……

    Oh hold on….

    DezB
    Free Member

    it will be as redundant an argument as MTB wheel size…

    Ah!

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    +1

    Discs make the bike less aero too.

    Yes, on the wet descent of Hardknott in the Fred Whitton the other week I was really wishing that I was more aero and didn’t have those pesky disc brakes. 🙄

    smuttiesmith
    Free Member

    crazy-legs – Member
    +1
    Discs make the bike less aero too.
    Yes, on the wet descent of Hardknott in the Fred Whitton the other week I was really wishing that I was more aero and didn’t have those pesky disc brakes.
    POSTED 9 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

    I didn’t really go fast enough down hardknott to need to slow that quickly on the whitton. Only averaged 14.9mph on the descent. Even the fastest strava time is 19.8mph!!

    MrSalmon
    Free Member

    In 5 years time when axle standards have settled down and the pros are racing them it will be as redundant an argument as MTB wheel size. Rim brake fans can scream at the dying of the light but the market will have moved on.

    Agree- whatever you think of them I reckon you’re sticking your fingers in your ears if you don’t think they are the future.

    I usually keep my bikes for several years, and I’d personally be reluctant to spend any serious money on a rim-braked road bike now.

    dirtyrider
    Free Member

    I didn’t realise that better brakes stop people over cooking it into corners when they are racing. that will be why no ever crashes in bad weather in corners in F1 or Moto GP……

    your comparing a flat moto go track with a 1 in 4 descent 😆

    come on son, come on

    jonba
    Free Member

    I usually keep my bikes for several years, and I’d personally be reluctant to spend any serious money on a rim-braked road bike now.

    Same here, my road bike is 5 years old and I’d like a new one. But if I can get the 2016 season done on it then I may be into the realms of discs.

    Sure I can lock the wheels up now with rim brakes but I’m looking forward to having proper modulation with one finger braking on hydraulic discs.

    smuttiesmith
    Free Member

    @dirtyrider if that’s your best come back you’ve disappointed me. Go and have a look at yourself in the mirror and have a word. 😀

    smuttiesmith
    Free Member

    also this doesn’t look flat

    dirtyrider
    Free Member

    retro83
    Free Member

    JAG – Member

    I can lock the wheels of my road bike with rim brakes in all weathers.

    Therefore rim brakes are powerful enough (the tyres are the limiting factor) and the only argument is if disc brakes are lighter.

    What use is locking up though? I want to get as close to locking up as possible without actually locking up. That’s why I’d have discs if I had the choice.

    crashtestmonkey
    Free Member

    What use is locking up though? I want to get as close to locking up as possible without actually locking up. That’s why I’d have discs if I had the choice.

    +1

    my summer road bike has 6700 Ultegra groupset and (ignoring recent carbon upgrade) Ultegra wheels. My CX bike has 4600 Tiagra groupset and cheapo Promax mechanical discs. The mechanical discs have far more feel and modulation than the Ultegra rim brakes. Ultimate power claims are redundant as most brakes can lock wheels, its being able to brake without locking them that’s the point.

    You’d struggle to buy a decent 26″ wheeled MTB now. In a few years time you’ll struggle to buy a decent rim-braked road bike, standards will have settled and weights will have dropped.

    smuttiesmith
    Free Member

    Dirtyrider just re-read your posts.

    Your first post seems to imply that Alexandre Geniez would have preferred discs yesterday at the Giro.
    The issue was that he didn’t, not couldn’t, didn’t slow down enough to cleanly take the corner. His ambition very nearly outweighed his talent. After that he was descending like Brad Wiggins when he lost his nerve.

    Second post states that disc modulation is better than carbon rim braking. Don’t disagree. Aluminium rim braking is also better than carbon rim braking as well. I don’t understand why anyone would be riding carbon in the rain unless they are being paid to do so.

    You then went on to talk out of your sphincter about moto gp tracks being flat.

    Since I started road racing as Juvenile some 20+ years ago brakes haven’t been an ‘issue’ until the last few years. LBS opinion is that the complaints re braking is almost exclusively from MTB riders taking up road riding. Only people I know who have swapped were terrible descenders on rim brakes and still are on discs.

    If I have still missed your point you need to learn to communicate more effectively.

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    soon as I see a suitable separately-purchasable disc fork appearing (for sensible money), I’ll be in*

    *long as it fits my current frame of course

    M1llh0use
    Free Member

    Rim brakes are stupid*. /thread

    *I may be somewhat biased.

    oldgit
    Free Member

    Wasn’t a fan of the road disc, only because I can’t see the need. However, if I wasn’t racing and only wanted one bike I’d go Giant Defy with hydros.
    I still prefer rim brakes. I’ve bought two new race bikes for 2015 and I chose rim and canti.
    I could have bought Giants with hydros at near cost, but instead bought wheels that cost more than a complete Defy with hydros and Di2. That’s how much I prefer rims for racing.
    Any spare cash id have that Defy.
    Also IMO mechanical discs are horrid.
    And I’ll be very happy if we always have the choice.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Since I started road racing as Juvenile some 20+ years ago brakes haven’t been an ‘issue’ until the last few years.

    When I started riding mountain bikes some 20+ years ago, brakes weren’t an issue either. We all had four finger moto levers pulling crappy cantis. Cantis got better. We had a brief, thankfully, detour via u-brakes and roller cams, then V brakes came along. By God they were good. So much better than cantis. Then we got discs, which were better still.

    Of course, if you want to ride v-brakes on your MTB you can. Equally, if you want to use mid-20th century braking technology on your road bike you can.

    See also skewers. MTBs used QR skewers because they were what was there from the road market. QRs are utterly pants on a mountain bike. So, lots of us have now moved to something better, as something better has been developed.

    I assume you’re also riding a steel bike, because, after all, frame materials aren’t an “issue”. Fixed wheel on a flip flop, I trust. Reductio ad absurdum…… 😉

    piemonster
    Full Member

    I’m voting disc brakes.

    I have one bike, ride in all weathers, and don’t race.

    It’s all win.

    davidtaylforth
    Free Member

    When I started riding mountain bikes some 20+ years ago, brakes weren’t an issue either. We all had four finger moto levers pulling crappy cantis. Cantis got better. We had a brief, thankfully, detour via u-brakes and roller cams, then V brakes came along. By God they were good. So much better than cantis. Then we got discs, which were better still.

    Well, mountain biking as a sport has progressed a long way from where it was twenty years ago. Road racing is still the same as it ever was

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    Road racing is still the same as it ever was

    cos of the brakes !

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Well, mountain biking as a sport has progressed a long way from where it was twenty years ago. Road racing is still the same as it ever was

    Ah, OK. So carbon frames, electronic shifting, shifting on the handlebars, clipless pedals, aero, internal cable routing, frame decouplers, tubless tyres, power meters, heart rate monitors, GPS, race radio, on board camers etc. are all developments that shouldn’t have happened? After all, we can’t have development now can we?

    Let’s just keep it nice and traditional. Even if that means it’s a bit shit.

    ( I know, I know. I’ve bitten a troller)

    thepurist
    Full Member

    Yeah carbon bikes, Team radio, drug testing… Same as it ever was.

    davidtaylforth
    Free Member

    scaredypants – Member
    Road racing is still the same as it ever was

    cos of the brakes !

    Do you think they’d race on gnarlier roads if the brakes were better?

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Do you think they’d race on gnarlier roads if the brakes were better?

    Well, it might have stopped the Schlecks from whining like pussies about having to ride downhill now and again.

    Teifiterror
    Free Member

    Having now purchased a disk braked road bike (hydraulics) I will never go back to rim brakes again. It has nothing to do with outright power, and all to do with the ability to closer hit the maximum braking power without locking up which enables far better control and a lot more confidence when riding. I know I prefer it and see no reason to go back.

    oldgit
    Free Member

    Discs have made a huge difference to mountain biking, can’t argue with that. Stops starts hops jumps obstacles ruts roots rocks arse over the rear wheel descents, all made a little easier with discs. But the demands on my race bike don’t compare. Now give me a disc that’ll help me climb and sprint, basically go faster then you’ll win me over completely.

    eshershore
    Free Member

    @Tired

    Giant have told me directly (I work for one of their dealers) that the 2015 Defy Advanced SL frame is their lightest ever road bike frame

    they said that doing away with the caliper mounting points allowed them to completely redesign the frame from the ground up

    I know my Defy Advanced Pro frame was 940 grammes (I took it all apart and weighed it), which is very impressive considering the price of my bike.

    My previous Tarmac Elite SL4 caliper brake frame was over 1250 grammes in 54cm size, as a comparison

    oldgit
    Free Member

    Defy is lighter than the race TCR.
    Or rather the race bike is heavier than the Defy. And is so for good reason.

    eshershore
    Free Member

    I’ve heard the issue about the limiting factor in braking being tire breakaway grip

    if you run a big volume tire like the Continental GP 4000 II I’ve got in 28c, its an absolutely massive tire with a long contact patch, run around 80-85psi its has a level of grip I’ve never experienced on a road bike. It also feels extremely quick both to accelerate and when rolling

    I actually increased my front disc to 160mm from the stock 140mm as I do a lot of fast/steep hill descending, I’ve never experienced any issues with tire grip on my disc brake bike.

    Regarding modulation, the big surprise was the level of control you get from the hoods position, literally using the side of your finger you have great modulation but also huge stopping power for those moments when a car pulls out suddenly

    oldgit
    Free Member

    I was looking at that Defy, that’s a saucy bike and superbe value. If I gave up racing today id nip down to Camden and walk away with that or the 0 model.

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    QRs are utterly pants on a mountain bike. So, lots of us have now moved to something better, as something better has been developed.

    I really really really need this explained to me, I’ve been using pants components for 28 years and don’t see the problem with them.

    As for road bike improvements, I’d love to see a test/evaluation of the increase in speed (for a pro let alone a leisure rider like us) a modern bike has over a 80s steel bike.

    Insignificant I bet.

Viewing 38 posts - 41 through 78 (of 78 total)

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