If I had more cash to drop on my new bike, the only thing I would do different is some DA parts (FD, RD, crankset), and maybe some more expensive wheels, but more than likely not.

So, that bike is basically my ultimate build.
The Baums don’t do it for me, I don’t like the shapes in the steel or titanium frames, and it does get tiring getting insulted over my choice of what is the bike that I like.

I kinda agree with Njee, however I posted a picture of a Hamspten which for me would be an ultimate bike.

I have 3 bikes, (MTB, CX, Road), all of which are simply tools on which I train and race, nothing else, and as such have little if any emotional value to me, about the same as my favorite hammer to be honest.

Therefore for me ultimate is more something where in the decision process heart over head wins. Yes a Hampsten would most likely be slower than my Ridley, however it’ll be bought, spec’d and ridden with a different mindset, and that I guess is the difference.

£9-10k for a bike that would have all of my riding buddies singing “Just one Corneto”? Not convinced.

They have done a wonderful job of marketing themselves as a brand.

I’ve never seen one in the flesh, they don’t print prices, or weights, or any facts about any of their bikes whatsoever. They seem quite inflexible, they have a long lead time (but won’t tell you how long), they won’t tell you what it’ll cost, and yet a load of people here (myself included) rush to post pics of them on this sort of thread.

In a lot of ways I think I’d actually rather have an English, some of the stuff Rob does is awesome, and it seems a little less pretentious.

No Storcks or boutique frame builders?

No Storcks or boutique frame builders?

Isn’t that what Baum/Hampsden/English are?

Come on folk, this is an “ultimate build” thread. Money no object type stuff. It doesn’t matter that the cost/benefit drops off above Chorus or Ultegra, Super Record or Dura Ace is better and should therefore be on your build instead. And would you really go for a Giant or Trek if you could have absolutely anything? Sure, they would make a great bike, but don’t they lack that special something that you could get if you had all the money in the world to spend?

UK Sport bikes then I guess. They are technically available to buy.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/olympics/bradley-wiggins-uksi-olympic-bike-40614l

howarthp – Member
Bikebouy – the Look is a wonderful bike

Excellent, good to hear your problems are sorted, we all have them.

Damn fine looking bike that 695.

😀

UK Sport bikes then I guess. They are technically available to buy.

Functionally superb I’m sure… but good god are they ugly.

Define ‘Ultimate’…

I agree though, they wouldn’t be my dream bike but then as a non professional I just want the bike that I enjoy riding most. That’d be based partially on non-functional things – eg I love my Bianchi, not because it’s the best/fastest bike I could have got for the money but because I always wanted a Bianchi (and actually the ride is great but it’s not the lightest and the paint finish is a bit rubbish in places).

No logo’s for me, stealth is the game. Just a nice carbon frame, mechanical Dura-Ace, job done 8)

Incidentally does anyone know what a Baum Coretto (or any other) costs?

If you look on the Prestige Cycle’s website they are saying it is, wait for it, a heart breaking £5650

Which is honestly truly staggering.

OK so they are going to custom draw and butt each and every tube (including the stays) just for you, but still, Indy Fab will do that and it will still cost less than £4k (Baum are throwing in Enve stem and post though!)

I’m kind of with Njee on this but at the same time would do struggle with desirability versus performance. They aren’t the same thing and it is kind of odd, that they almost seem to be exclusive of each other.

You do get some brands that combine both, like Parlee for instance, but I guess ultimately it comes down to simple economics. The best performance will come only from high levels of development cost which can only be incurred by the brands confident that they will sell enough units to cover that and make a profit.

By definition almost, performance and desirability (where I am assuming the desirability is associated with rarity, customisation and artisan build styles) are exclusive of each other.

The bike that I would love to have for both performance and desirability is this:

I mean a bike made in a factory that was built just to build that bike?

For me:

Frame – Custom Titanium (Baum, Firelfy, Seven, Moots etc)
Groupset – Super Record EPS (but discs)
Wheels and Finishing Kit – Chris King and ENVE

The current stable (which mostly conforms to the above).

For the road:

For the wet:

And for cross:

Solarider did you see my post on the custom made carbon mudguards? Your Seven is crying out for them 😀

Yep, saw that. Nice, but prefer the SKS fittings though. Now if they used SKS fittings………

Solarider I am sure Adrian would make some that did use SKS. You just have to ask.

BTW I do like the fact that you’ve gone disc brakes and Enve full carbon rims on all your bikes.

I’ve been saying this for a while now, but in my view, the most compelling reason for the mass migration to disc brakes is that it will make the wider adoption of carbon clinchers more likely, which will in turn bring the price down and so on.

The two biggest obstacles to more people using carbon clinchers are the braking performance (which is poor) and the heat issues. Sure you can run tub’s and negate at least one of those problems, but tub’s just aren’t practical for the majority of us.

The more people use carbon clinchers the cheaper they will become, as we have seen in mountain biking.

The two biggest obstacles to more people using carbon clinchers are the braking performance (which is poor) and the heat issues. Sure you can run tub’s and negate at least one of those problems, but tub’s just aren’t practical for the majority of us.

I thought there was a problem with the high pressure of road tyres on carbon bead hooks? Or have I imagined that…

I agree. The CX bike runs 28 hole ENVE clinchers on King R45s. The wet weather bike runs 32 hole ENVE clinchers on a SON Delux front and Tune Kong rear.

But for out and out weight and performance, the road bike runs 28 hole ENVE tubulars on Tune King and Kong. I don’t think you can beat tubulars for that ultimate ride.

This gets around the issue of tire pressures. Both the CX and wet weather bike run wider tires (34mm and 30mm) at lower pressures on clincher rims. The tubulars are good to 160PSI, which is far higher than I ever run them at.

I thought there was a problem with the high pressure of road tyres on carbon bead hooks? Or have I imagined that…

It’s tied in with the heat issue. They can easily build rims strong enough to withstand the pressure, but when you brake a lot on long descents, the heat build up can degrade the resin and the rim looses strength and integrity. That’s the point at which the pressure being exerted on the sidewall by the tyre and inner tube starts to be a big problem. A mate of mine witnessed his friend’s rear wheel collapse at about 60kph in the Alps last year!

There are, apparently, resins that are better at resisting the effects of heat, but they aren’t as good at imparting strength to the rim.

The which are better, tubs or clinchers debate is easily answered. Tubs every time for ride ultimate quality but the performance of high quality ‘open tubular clinchers’ with latex tubes is so close these days as to make it an easy choice for me personally.

My ultimate bike would be an S Works Venge in Tom Boonen colourway.

DA Di2
Nice set of HED Aero wheels

Job done.

This

or This

I already have my “ultimate” frame (though it’s been away getting a new stay welded in for the last six months…) but I can’t afford to trash top of the range Campagnolo components. If I could, it would look somewhat like these:

And they guy who is welding it also builds these, one of which I would quite enjoy…

Though as someone said above, it’s just a tool at the end of the day (perhaps with a little more sentiment attached than my favourite hammer!)

edit: just noticed Geetee had already observed quite how insanely expensive Baums are. Mental. One day. Maybe.

You have a big leg Emma? Nice bet that stay was hard to source?. Love those phat stays but being 66kg I make do with a Duende.
Got a chesini in Columbus spirit on its way so I don’t trash the pegoretti over another winter, not a racer so I’ll take the ride quality over weight weenie agonising any day.

Just noticed the first bike there is a Love #3 not a Marcelo.

Mine’s a 2008 vintage Marcelo – the seat stay rusted through at the bottom so not too hard a job (the tube came direct from Dario). The rather foregone conclusion of 6 winters’ training and no framesaver, but you live and learn!

edit: just noticed Geetee had already observed quite how insanely expensive Baums are. Mental. One day. Maybe.

Far be it for me to point out the Antipodean origin of Baum frames, but in a world so steeped in Heritage and Tradition as road cycling, surely any Road Bike Frame truly worthy of real lust needs to be able to carry a Green, White and Red flag proudly on its paintwork somewhere?

Don’t get me wrong, those Baum’s look incredible, but if I was parting with that much cash for a frame, I’d positively demand it was handmade by a man that can’t speak a word of English but can still convey his entire life story (and how he learned his skills off his father, and his father before him) purely by gestures and shrugs of the shoulder. He should eat Pasta at least twice a day, own a Coffee Machine worth more than the Bike Frames he sells, and drive everywhere as if he was late for his own funeral and then arrive at his destination and be in no hurry to do anything at all. He should absolutely, positively, definitely quote a lead time of 3 months to create the frame, but then take 18 to make it, and though it will undoubtedly be a thing of beauty, it should most definitely be heavier, flexier and ultimately not perform as well as a mass produced Taiwanese frame costing exactly 1/5th as much. It will also be dressed in full (mechanical thank you) Campagnolo Super Record, come riding on tubs (not cos they’re faster, but because they’re less practical, this is the important bit here!) and have a Standard Chainset fitted with a straight through cassette.

Unless all of that is true, then it will truly never be accepted by the real cognoscenti of the Road World! 😉

For the rest of us though, anything costing roughly £2-3k for a complete off the shelf, Taiwanese made, full build will be lighter, faster and probably more comfortable. But this isn’t what matters when you want to make a real statement!

for me it would have to be a bmc impec (will have to start doing the lotto i think).

saw then at muddocks in bristol and they looked incredible.

as said earlier,they built a factory just to make the frames.

.

For me the Look 695 and the Hampsten are the only bikes so far that look right. Modern road bikes look shite IMO.

Good to see some bikes offer real and significant speed advantages though, even Treks with Jack and the Beanstalk head tubes!

for me it would have to be a bmc impec (will have to start doing the lotto i think).

That’s the ultimate bike quandary. Impec is their “ultimate build”, but I’d rather have one of their TimeMachine bikes (as it seems would most of their riders.)

Looks are lovely frames, I had an old aluminium Look with full carbon fork and what a bike that was.

A Time ZXRS would be a great frame to build an ultimate performance bike around.

I don’t get those Baums either, but then Ti for me isn’t the ultimate frame, it got superseded in the early 2000’s by carbon fibre.

I don’t get those Baums either, but then Ti for me isn’t the ultimate frame, it got superseded in the early 2000’s by carbon fibre.

Depends whether you want ultimate performance or ultimate desirability, looks etc.

I posted up a stainless steel Cinelli xCR near the start of the thread which I think is a real head turned. Beautiful frame with heritage to go with it, but it’s unlikely to perform as well as a top end carbon bike.

I don’t get those Baums either, but then Ti for me isn’t the ultimate frame, it got superseded in the early 2000’s by carbon fibre.

And to that end, for ultimate performance I’d choose a Madone 7-series. But I’d still have a Baum, just to hang on the wall, and for those days when I wasn’t in a hurry, but mainly just to look at!

Mmm, big fan of the 7-Series Madone, interested to see what the new unidentified Trek seen at the Dauphinè was, keep being tempted by a newer Madone to replace my haggard 2004 SL!

Not sure if it the same frame you have in mind but the latest model from trek using an anagram of “Madone” seems to be the 690g Emonda.

Honestly wouldn’t know where to start with an ultimate build. The normal constraints of use/ fit/ budget/ availability/ practicalities/ etc somewhat make the decision for you most time looking for a new bike.

surely the answer is to go to Sarto or some other similar custom carbon builder? fit like a dream, whatever colour you want, not ugly – record, boras, deda finishing kit, job done

Not sure if it the same frame you have in mind but the latest model from trek using an anagram of “Madone” seems to be the 690g

I’d seen the photos from the Dauphine, but hadn’t seen the name or anything. Looks great! I do love the clean look of the 7-series with the brake down on the chainstays, but they feel horrible, interesting to see they’ve gone back to ‘normal’ on that. 4.6kg production bike is impressive.

Don’t get me wrong, those Baum’s look incredible, but if I was parting with that much cash for a frame, I’d positively demand it was handmade by a man that can’t speak a word of English but can still convey his entire life story (and how he learned his skills off his father, and his father before him) purely by gestures and shrugs of the shoulder. He should eat Pasta at least twice a day, own a Coffee Machine worth more than the Bike Frames he sells, and drive everywhere as if he was late for his own funeral and then arrive at his destination and be in no hurry to do anything at all. He should absolutely, positively, definitely quote a lead time of 3 months to create the frame, but then take 18 to make it, and though it will undoubtedly be a thing of beauty, it should most definitely be heavier, flexier and ultimately not perform as well as a mass produced Taiwanese frame costing exactly 1/5th as much. It will also be dressed in full (mechanical thank you) Campagnolo Super Record, come riding on tubs (not cos they’re faster, but because they’re less practical, this is the important bit here!) and have a Standard Chainset fitted with a straight through cassette.

Mboy knows the way.

Back in the late 80’s, as a mere boy learning the trade on hand-me-down road bikes from the grizzled old club vets, and watching French champions battle for the Tour, I had a poster on my bedroom wall of a Colnago, fully lugged steel frame, with disk wheels made from timber veneer marquetry showing a map of the world.

This is still the most beautiful bike I have ever seen – I’ve searched the net but have never found a picture of it.

Solarider

Is this picture

Taken somewhere around here?

It is indeed!