Zone, have you got any pics of this amazing 18 year old Ti frame you keep referring to?
Bike Forum
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RIP Tinbred ebb
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Posted 2 years ago #
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Zone, surface treatment won't solve contaminated welds that cause most of these cracks, surely? Moots and a few others who know ti very well use double pass welds (structural and cosmetic) and i'm not convinced that overheating is the issue here, more likely a contamination or ride stress issue.
Producing a ti alloy just for bike use isn't going to happen, this is a small industry compared to the main users of ti! if only it were the other way round and bike sales were worth more than the military.. )
Interested in the heat-treatable alloy you suggest tho, care to tell more? Is your 18 y/o frame a CP or alloyed?
cheers
Posted 2 years ago # -
andylaightscat - Member
hmm,looks just like the failure on mine,that's the problem with cheap ti it doesn't last
Why? same material and same builders as dearer brands. I've seen merlins snap.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I didnt buy a Ti hardtail because I thought it could never break. It had to be mine because I must in all things have only the very best.
Posted 2 years ago # -
My Tinbred may well last forever but I will never know as the chav scum w4nkers who knicked it have not been caught yet...
Shame you EBB broke, it can happen to any bike..
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've got one of those and hence very interested. What do the amateur metallurgists reckon - is it a fatigue thing (ie; the more / harder it's ridden the sooner it will fail) or is it an age thing?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I have no expert knowledge at all, but could it be that more cheap ti frames crack because there are more cheap ti frames in total?
Posted 2 years ago # -
What do the amateur metallurgists reckon - is it a fatigue thing (ie; the more / harder it's ridden the sooner it will fail) or is it an age thing?
It's a 'sticker' thing. Needed an 853 one.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hi mike at Dialled bikes,, yeh I've got some pics... I will stick some on tomorrow. and it is an alloy not cp...
It's an Alpha/beta alloy of Ti 4-6%Al 2%Mn
The forming and extrusion process of these tubes also increases the tensile strength as well.
The finishing does also make a difference due to the fact it's the same process that Rolls Royce use on their turbine fan blades to UK Aerospace/Mil-spec Standard and certification for the same results... creating a microscopic defect tolerant surface with increased fatigue resistance.
The heat treatment is made possible to the most part due to the Mn... and other factors!
single pass welds... ltd exposure to high temps... less weld...and other stuff
Zone
Oops forgot... agree with finishing not helping this one though,,, looks to start at the underside of the weld point...could be where the weld started and finished...i.e weak spot. to much heat??? Hard riding...??? Contaminant could also be it... maybe
Posted 2 years ago # -
We saw a cracked Ti Cotic on the NY ride at Swinley forest. Made a nice ping when it went too.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Bro-Bra - Can you email me. Cheers,
Posted 2 years ago # -
crap photo again... but you can see the tapered and ovalised tubes...just
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad99/zonecc/timax.jpg?t=1250111966
This picture is of a frame from 1993 still in use the other is not built up at the mo.... I can send you photos of the older one if you want from 91 ? I've got one from 1994 as well... which has amazing ovalised chainstays...and down tube... variable wall thickness inside and out again...
I just wish I could track down the 12.5" frame version that was stolen from me in 99... the give away is that to the more observant they would notice the seat stays and chain stays taper to the drop out like steel frame....but it's Ti.
may be one day
Posted 2 years ago # -
Cynic-al,
well I was trying to be ironic as tinbreds werent cheap,mine failed at abt 3yrs old,onone didn't seem that concerned and I knew the warrenty was only 2yrs but my 16yr old merlin is still in one piece,riding well as the saying says "buy cheap,buy twice"Posted 2 years ago # -
So are there any intact EBB Tinbreds still being ridden? Mine also cracked, although it has been repaired and is still being used. They don't seem the best example of 'titanium is for life'
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've had three Ti frames and they've all broken. I'm on my fourth now and when that breaks I shan't bother with another.
Posted 2 years ago # -
So basically, what you're all saying is that Ti is shite?
Posted 2 years ago # -
TZF,not saying that,might say that poorly designed,manufactured Ti is
but none of my other Ti bikes have benn anything other than
Jason,where did yours fail and who repaired it?
thanksPosted 2 years ago # -
Seat post/top tube join. I spotted a hairline crack about an inch long. Vernon Barker did a pretty good job of repairing it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Quick update, on-one have looked at the damage and imo have been very accommodating with their responce and course of action.
I am more than happy with how they have handled this, which is one of the reasons I like dealing with small UK companies.
I will post an update once the details have been finalized.
Posted 2 years ago # -
bro-bra,
how old is it?
thanksPosted 2 years ago # -
[Van Nicholas will replace (NOT repair) any frame that fails due to manufacturer defects in materials or workmanship.
- Van Nicholas Titanium frames for the Lifetime of the frame
- Van Nicholas Aluminium frames for 3 years from date of original retail purchase
- Van Nicholas Carbon frames for 2 years from date of original retail purchase]So someone has more confidence in their Ti frames than their ally and carbon. They also offer 50% of retail price crash replacement as well.
Not bad for what are relatively cheap Ti frames.Posted 2 years ago # -
Yeah I should have probably stated this was one of the original tinbred ebb frames from 2003-ish.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Bad luck on the bike.
But happy Birthday!
Present to self-new frame!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Nice outcome...
i recently discovered a crack in my much ridden Fat Chance titanium -so this thread makes interesting reading - my thoughts are once failed it seems pretty difficult (but not impossible) to salvage a ti frame cost effectively?... Which puts a perspective on the "for life angle"...basicaly while ti frames (& obviously all are not fabricated equal) will not rust, once they bust, they are dust?Posted 2 years ago # -
I think Van Nicholas titanium frames are made from a mixture of titanium and alloy and something else.
I don't know if that sound's similar to Zone's 18 year old ti bike?
Van Nicholas are now doing a long travel hardtail MTB frame if anybody's interested.
Tim
Posted 2 years ago # -
don't think van nic is using it... I would be surprised :?d
This one has super plastic qualities.... at production level.
This allows for the tube wall to be variably adjusted from the inside and outside of the tube...when being formed.
e.g. Top tube Contact weld point at head and seat tube is 1.8mm, in the centre of the tube it is 0.8mm.
This reduction in wall thickness is a gradual internally and externally ... no steps. Tube is over sized as well. Like some alloy frame, no stress points along the tube, max strength at the welds and reduced weight,compliant but stiff ride overall.
This process is used on all main tubes... and chain and seat stays with different contact thickness and wall thickness's relevant to each tubes location and ride characteristic requirements.
Unify the single pass welds... and then treat the surface to increase resistance to fatigue fractures.. all you need to do then is the mountain bike design bit...
but as stated in earlier posts... this tube design would never be achieved again unless attached to other more important
projects.Not economically viable
even though the Mn alloy is cheaper than vanadium.does make me wonder if 6 tons of oil pressure could be used with titanium ... it's a thought
Posted 2 years ago # -
mmm, makes me think a summer season at £125 notes is the best bet for hard riding - keeping a Ti frame just to look at!
Bro Bra - Have you recently been doing drops / jumping, or has it just gone through normal riding?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I don't know the first thing about titanium to be honest, but here's thier info about what titanium they use, if that helps to shed some light on things titanium related.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Zone - Member
crap photo again... but you can see the tapered and ovalised tubes...just
So it's just a Serotta Timax then?
Posted 2 years ago # -
- So it's just a Serotta Timax then?
Nope....
Ben Serotta has nothing to do with this! This was UK drivenWe where just before him
He had a Ti tandem out called a TiMax 2004 though .... my memory fails me some times...
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'll correct my self 1994 for the tandem....
oh and no step butting on this... not like there3 stage butting..
Posted 2 years ago # -
Pics of the tubes... hope this helps
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad99/zonecc/cannon180809045.jpg?t=1250585093
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad99/zonecc/cannon180809037.jpg?t=1250584954
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad99/zonecc/cannon180809048.jpg?t=1250585036
Zone
Posted 2 years ago # -
With reference to the GT connection, I think that the zizang Ti frames were US built. The Lightning was built in Taiwan. Compared the weld finish on mine with a Tinbred and they were very similar.
I may just be lucky but my 1998 lightning frame is still intact.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Jason
So are there any intact EBB Tinbreds still being ridden? Mine also cracked, although it has been repaired and is still being used. They don't seem the best example of 'titanium is for life'Original tiinbred EBB here still going strong, mostly but not exclusively ridden with a rohloff hub. I did go and check the frame over after seeing those photos but no signs of any weakness at all. I cant say I've been too precious with it either, done me proud these past years. Hopefully it'll live to see many more.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I have medium Tinbred (ebb) cracked in the same place when i phoned Brant and asked him if anything On-One warranty would cover and he said "I might as well use it as a fking coat hanger" i took that as a no!
Anyway it was a fun ridePosted 2 years ago #
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