Okay, okay. Stupid phone ! 🙄

Trade rates can be awful, especially for small shops. The big chain stores either buy direct or can negotiate large discounts. Last time I was looking to buy some drivetrain parts, the Germany stores didn’t have the right parts in stock, but their prices were lower than my LBS could buy them for.

Not just here say, I was looking at the LBS’s online account. A ZEE shifter was £19.99 on Rose. Price to LBS was £21.49. Then add on some sort of profit and then VAT.

£200 above what you can buy and build yourself seems fair, to supply and fit a whole bike. £980 does seem steep. If they didn’t want to do the job then why spend the time to do the quote.

Ton am I right in thinking you are saying that the shops are quoting 200 and 980 more for the parts than you can get them for (from various sources) on a 3200 build? then building ‘for free’ rather than the aforementioned prices just to build the bike? So charging 7% (or 30%ish) more than the absolute cheapest the whole industry can supply the parts for? I’d say the 980 guy was about standard margin for a full bike, and the 200 guy is (apart from barely breaking even) banking on repeat business or building a relationship with you. Which seems unlikely to happen given your desire to get the absolute cheapest price available.

I’d say this goes some way to explaining the demise of the lbs.

^ this

I have charged about 80 quid for sourcing all the parts (cheapest option ie merlin/chain reaction etc) and building. It appears I am too cheap. Cash up front for me though for the parts.

let me repeat

i put a build list together
it came to £3200 if i bought it myself
i gave the build list to 2 shops
one quoted me £3470
one quoted me £4160……..which i think is a rip off

both shops off custom builds
both shops are well known
both seemed happy to talk about the build

one quoted me £3470

I’d go with that one, Ton.

bearing in mind that they will get all the bits a fair bit cheaper than me.

I work in a bike shop. For many items, CRC, Merlin etc are significantly cheaper than I can get stuff at trade from Madison.

martinhutch, garage?

No, qualified and experienced bike mechanic with premises.

put a build list together
it came to £3200 if i bought it myself

Was that shopping around for the absolute cheapest, or did you do it at retail? everything after that becomes irrelevant.

Tomhoward’s nailed it.

Save 200 quid and build it yourself 🙂

reminds me of the time tried to buy the wife a stumperjumper comp back in 2007.It was listed at £1500 but sold out but the shop said they had a frame I could have at cost and offered to price up a build for me with the phrase “will be about the same”. Came in at £2700, err yeah no.

i did not shop around, all from 1 place except the frame.

if you had a look at my bike buying habits from the pasr, you will see i am not one to fuss about price, but i object from being ripped off.

There is stuff that my lbs can’t compete on at all for price due to overseas sellers charging less than his distributor.
200 over whatever site you used is very good. What was the savings on RRP on your list online?
980 isn’t bad if it includes time to build etc too. Especially if some parts were more than your online special or was something hard for them to get.

Anyway its your money choose the one that will give you the best value (not the same as cheapest) and tomhoward got it in one.

The demise of the local bike shop (to me) is not based on price, I’ll happily pay more to have something now than wait days for something. Its more that consistently i receive poor quality customer service in shops, when that’s the thing they should be selling, themselves.

Sounds like one of the shops doesn’t want your business, but then I have heard of a few that dont want your business after your er buying habits.

Got me wondering how the hell I got mine built for free now.

The last build I did I tried to do myself and came unstuck with brakes and gears so gave in and took to LBS, not the same shop as other build as that was miles away. This second shop charged me 100 to fit brakes and gears and give it a safety check which I thought was ok considering. This makes your 200 option seem very fair but your 900+ seem a little on the high side.

Bought my frame and the build was free. I supplied the parts. I wanted to swap to Dura Ace on my Defy and move the Ultegra groupset to the new frame. The shop could not source Dura Ace cheaper than Merlin. In the event, I decided not to and just supplied the old Ultegra for the new frame.

I’m happy to pay a little more for local. But the £150 for Look pedals that are discontinued was just a little rich. Still bought my Hope wheels there though.

The building company I used to work for, if we were snowed under or the customer came across as a complete nightmare, the boss would put in a ridiculessly high quote. Making him 99% sure he would not get the job, but if he did it would be worth his while.

So maybe they were busy. 😀

Building up the bike would be half of the fun for me…… although 200 quid is quite tempting, particularly if you don’t have all the tools (bleed kit?) etc yourself.

I suspect that all you are seeing is the difference between one shop preparing their quote based on sourcing parts from an online retailer (as you did), and on just referring to their dealers catalog and RRPs.

+1 Klunk and neil853

There’s always hidden costs. What they quote is never the same as the final bill is it. That’s my experience with lbs. I don’t mind paying for good customer service. It’s the dishonesty when they say you need new parts when things are a couple of months old. I hate being ripped off.

Pay for a bike to be built…..
Madness!

What better way to spend an evening than putting together your new pride and joy. I would pay for the privilege. Last Saturday night I built mine up from scratch in 4 hours – just me, the radio and half a bottle of scotch – was magic and much more enjoyable than the expensive night out in town I had the night before. The fact that it was ready for the ride on Sunday morning was the icing on the cake.

As for tools – Im pretty sure you could buy what you need from scratch for much less than £200

Multitool
Set of spanners
Bottom bracket spanner
Little plastic tool for installing Shimano Cranks (different cranks are available)
Cable Cutters
Bleed Kit and brake fluid for shortening whatever brake hoses (or a bit of rubber tube if Hope)
Tub of Grease
A rag and some degreaser
Some threaded bar and various washers from Homebase to make your headset press and star nut tool.
A hacksaw for the steerer tube
A file for the steerer tube

…and once you have it you have it

Thing is, they’re not charging £900 to build it.

They’ve priced the build which comes to £900 more than you can get the parts for because they’re basing it on retail prices, not the cheapest online deals.

Yes, they could order everything from Merlin/CRC/Rose, but what if stuff is OEM? Turns up in plastic bags etc. Probably fine for a build, but they can’t be expected to start scouring the webshops for stuff.

but they can’t be expected to start scouring the webshops for stuff

….but they shouldn’t expect to receive much business either.

RRPs exist for a reason.
They build in a margin for the retailer, which is designed to support a small business.
Most LBSs will sell at RRP and then discount a little for repeat business (I think mine sells frame at RRP and then 15% off all attached bits).

Whether you think they justify it or not, is up to you.

I’ve come across many LBSs that don’t imo justify it. Luckily, I’ve also found a couple that do. I’m happy to support them knowing that I get great service – just like I would like to think my customers are with me.

ndthornton I with you on this one.

But to have such a divide in quotes, to me, says they either don’t want the work or not understood the job. Get a third quote and see where that take you.

spend the 200 quid on some shiny tools to build it with. win win

edit – beaten to it above, doh.

Rip off, yes or no? (bike build price)

No. It’s an open market, they’re free to name any price they want, you are free to accept, look elsewhere or DIY.

I think rip off implies deceit, dishonesty, or at the very least, exploitation in the sense of exploiting a monopoly, or your inability of choose an alternative. None of those are applicable.

I work in a bike shop. For many items, CRC, Merlin etc are significantly cheaper than I can get stuff at trade from Madison.

In which case why wouldn’t the bike shop just order the required part(s) from CRC or whoever is cheapest?

this is a bit of a daft thread really….

a lot of individual parts plus zero cost labour
vs
individual parts plus labour plus consumables plus margin for overheads etc

you already know the ‘build it yourself’ answer, there are so many cost variables that businesses have that you won’t find out about – crack on and build it

In which case why wouldn’t the bike shop just order the required part(s) from CRC or whoever is cheapest?

For the reasons I said – it may well turn up in a plastic bag, be OEM etc. Technically you’re reselling it, so where does a retailer stand on warranty? They’re the original owner, why should CRC honour a warranty? Could end up significantly out of pocket.

And shops don’t exist to do that. You can get a TV cheaper at Amazon than Curry’s, why don’t Curry’s buy their stock from Amazon?

RRPs exist for a reason.
They build in a margin for the retailer, which is designed to support a small business.

Does this business model still work though – isn’t it a little out of date?

It came from a time when buying from shops was the only option. Now with Google shopping, sorting on price and using PayPal you can buy at the cheapest possible price online within minutes without getting up.

For certain some people will always be happy to pay for someone to put the bits together for them. – but paying RRP for the bits when saving thousands and unlimited choice is just a click away – I’m not so sure how long that will last.

There is still a generation of customers that are used to the touchy – feely nature of buying stuff from shops, but I think the up and coming generation will demand a different type of service. Bike workshops that charge a set fee for building, fixing, servicing etc and allow you to bring your own parts – just like bringing your own drinks to a Indian restaurant. Or charge a small fee to source a parts list at the lowest possible price and then a fee to build it up.

Perhaps I will open a shop…..

Does this business model still work though – isn’t it a little out of date?

er, yes, you might have noticed the number of high street shops that have closed in the last decade or so. Not so much just bike shops as practically every other line of consumer goods. Electrical retailers have taken a battering for example.

One possibility you haven’t considered is that someone’s made a mistake in their spreadsheet and either undercounted or double counted. If you’re comparing the lowest online price from multiple retailers, and most stuff is discounted from RRP, then I suspect the lower of those two quotes is wrong.

nicolai-uk

Thanks, I have noticed 🙂
Cant quite work out if you agree or not?

On past experience of my comments on here I’ll guess not.

Were the quoted prices for exactly the same parts down to the same model number or nearly the same parts?

As mentioned, did you price up from somewhere like Merlin that sells ‘not exactly brand new in box’ parts?

Both of these questions could/will have a significant bearing on the cost. How much would a similar off the shelf bike cost btw?

Cant quite work out if you agree or not?
On past experience of my comments on here I’ll guess not.

Sort of. There’s two basic competitive strategies – lowest price, or highest quality. If you’re competing on price you need to ensure your costs are lower than anyone else’s. That usually means buying very large quantities to get biggest discounts and minimising your fixed costs (eg buildings) – the Chain Reaction model. The alternative is cutting out some links in the chain and have ‘unique’ (eg own brand) products – the Superstar model. Otherwise you need to offer enough of an experience around the sale (whether advice, warranty backup, pleasant experience) that you can demand a premium. Some will balk at paying it but so long as there are enough people who don’t it’s a better business to be in and, if you’re good, much harder for someone else to challenge.

I reckon the higher priced of Ton’s two shops probably has a better business model, they just don’t need or want his type of customer. Charging internet prices plus c£200 for an afternoon’s work building the bike and a few hours to order the parts/handle the accounting and invoice payments and an hour or more to prepare the quote for him (plus the time they spend serving him) isn’t going to pay the bills.

On Simon’s point I know of a lbs who would undercut anyone for a sale, last example I saw was offering a bike that comes from the supplier in individual parts for about 50quid above trade. That is a loss for anyone really.

To the nightmare of building from customer supplied parts include:-

Ceasing build due to incompatible parts and communicating to mechanically challenged punter what is required (research).

Supplying consumables not considered by punter (stem spacer, cable, olives/unions,cables,

Potentialy some sort of quasi fitting.

Having to speak to a customer who has knows what he wants (closet weigh weenie/obsessive) but hasn’t the skills to build – potentialy the worst sort of customer who will recognise a steerer cut 5mm short and not accept a 7degree rise stem in place of a 0degree one because it’s 25g heavier/wrong make/looks bad etc.

I’m not telling you how I know this

I remember specing a custom build for a gentleman some years ago who was building his dream bike based on a Merlin XLM frame.

He just wanted the most expensive of everything to go on it. Boxxer forks, Mono 6ti brakes, a Moots ti stem and flat bar etc. Took a while to talk him around.

Think everyone has covered the RRP vs online box shifter/OEM seller thing.

One very important thing being overlooked. The LBS is a shop. A shop is a business. The primary objective of a business is to generate profit. If they build the bike at 0% margin on parts (potentially tying up credit line that could be used to stock product they can sell to others at RRP and makea margin), and then tie up staff on the build at next to nothing (so tying up the workshop which could be billed out at RRP – and most LBS workshops are busy these days), not only do they not make a profit, they make a financial loss.

Sounds like both shops have quoted you based on their own business model, margin requirements and desirability of the project.

Just because they offer custom builds, doesn’t mean they offer “custom builds, put together for free with parts cheaper than we can buy them from our suppliers”.