It is also interesting in the UK that for most items you don’t see the cost before and after sales tax is added, something that would be very enlightning to most.

Hardly likely to be “very enlightning to most”. Most people are fully aware that VAT is set at 20%, without being reminded that it is every time they buy something.

It is also interesting in the UK that for most items you don’t see the cost before and after sales tax is added, something that would be very enlightning to most

Very true this. I remember being outraged (internally at least) when the product (chocolate bar or somesuch) that I was buying had 5% sales tax added at the till.

That is until I realised that we pay 17.5% (or did!) it’s just already built in to the price.

And we do know the cost of sales tax, its 20% and is included on all prices of applicable products, unless stated otherwise.

That’s the point, it’s included, you don’t see the price without sales tax, therefore you don’t truelly see the cost of the product versus the cost of the taxation.

It’s not just 20% vat.

Corporation tax, import duty, business rates, income tax, ni, assorted HR & H&S legislation. It all gets put into the cost of sale.

That’s the point, it’s included, you don’t see the price without sales tax, therefore you don’t truelly see the cost of the product versus the cost of the taxation

Pretty sure I could work it out pretty quickly though…

It’s just not embedded in the UK culture to differentiate the different between product cost and tax cost. It’s just different, the US is very orientated on product cost versus taxation charged by the government, hence why federal, state, city taxes are all different and designed for competition.

if you factor in alcohol (which is more expensive)

Beer’s more expensive, spirits are dirt cheap.

Factor in that really you want to have private health insurance in the UK as well as free NHS

You do?

What percent of people in the UK have private health insurance?
And of those, how many would bother with it if they didn’t get it as a benefit from their employer?

I think you’ve won this one LHS.

People in the UK aren’t aware that they’re paying taxes.

Unlike in the good ol’ US of A.

But if all the taxes are the same, does that not put fucus on the cost of the product, as thats the only variable?

I remember being outraged (internally at least) when the product (chocolate bar or somesuch) that I was buying had 5% sales tax added at the till.

What irks me is that the prices don’t show it so you can’t have exact money ready. I always come back from the US with enough pennies in my pockets to make me walk like ED-209. Never really understood that, it’s not like some people don’t pay the tax (AFAIK anyway).

Beer’s more expensive, spirits are dirt cheap

Especially if you buy them from men with 4 teeth in dungerees, and they sell it to you in jars 😉

I think you’ve won this one LHS.

People in the UK aren’t aware that they’re paying taxes.

Unlike in the good ol’ US of A.

Good debating skills. It’s not about winning, maybe it is for some, it’s about pointing out the differences.

People in the UK aren’t aware that they’re paying taxes.

Yes, because people in the UK never moan about paying too much tax, how much stuff costs “the taxpayer”, stuff like that?

it’s included, you don’t see the price without sales tax, therefore you don’t truelly see the cost of the product versus the cost of the taxation.

Casting my eye over the invoices on my desk from wiggle, CRC and Amazon I see that they all have itemised prices showing cost before and after VAT.

So it’s not quite as stealth as you suggest.

And as others pointed out, the US only makes a point of highlighting that one sales tax.

They (obviously) don’t itemise all the other background taxes which still have an effect on the cost of an item (e.g. corporation tax, business rates, import duties, fuel tax, etc etc).

It’s not about winning, maybe it is for some, it’s about pointing out the differences.

And haven’t you done it well.

I previously would have thought that most people in the UK are fully aware that the VAT rate is 20%, but you’ve convinced me that it would be “something that would be very enlightning to most”.

Aren’t people in the UK stupid !

I think, ernie, you’re trying to have an argument that doesn’t exist. He’s not saying that people in the UK are unaware of the VAT they pay, they just perceive it and the associated value of goods differently.

By the way, the reason sales tax isn’t included is that it’s different in different states and even towns (there’s state and city taxes), and by leaving it off it allows fair comparison of prices between retailers.

Ernie is just looking for an argument, sad.

Ernie, it’s about making you think. If you go to a till and buy something for £100 and it rings up at £105 or £120 because sales tax is 5% or 20%, you stop and think about the relative value of goods versus tax. If the price you see on the shelf is what you pay at the till, most people won’t go through that thought process.

By the way, the reason sales tax isn’t included is that it’s different in different states and even towns (there’s state and city taxes), and by leaving it off it allows fair comparison of prices between retailers.

How does that work, then? If you buy interstate online what taxes do you pay?

How does that work, then? If you buy interstate online what taxes do you pay?

The taxes in the state you are in IIRC.

Where you live.

I don’t know, I’ll ask my wife. I’m guessing you pay the tax in the place where the online store is physically located. Isn’t that what we do when buying from another EU country?

EDIT oops I guessed wrong 🙂

Ernie, it’s about making you think.

Yeah I understood that with your comment :

“It is also interesting in the UK that for most items you don’t see the cost before and after sales tax is added, something that would be very enlightning to most.”

People in the UK don’t think.

Ernie, it’s about making you think.

Think what, though?

“I’d rather pay £20 less for those cranks and that there was no cancer treatment available on the NHS because *I* don’t have cancer and therefore it’s not a priority for me”

?

LHS – Member
Ernie, it’s about making you think. If you go to a till and buy something for £100 and it rings up at £105 or £120 because sales tax is 5% or 20%, you stop and think about the relative value of goods versus tax. If the price you see on the shelf is what you pay at the till, most people won’t go through that thought process.

Why is this thought process necessary for every purchase?

It’s not about making you think. It’s about comparison. Trust me, most people do not consider politics when they buy their groceries. It’s pretty similar in most places anyway – 4-6%

I don’t know, I’ll ask my wife. I’m guessing you pay the tax in the place where the online store is physically located. Isn’t that what we do when buying from another EU country?

I think that’s right, or at least use to be as a company I worked for bought our software from HP through a specific state as they had the lowest levels of tax on that product – could have been Deleware, but could be wrong.

It’s not about making you think. It’s about comparison. Trust me, most people do not consider politics when they buy their groceries. It’s pretty similar in most places anyway – 4-6%

It’s only really about comparison with out-of-state shopping, though. Not a great deal of use when it comes to comparing your two local supermarkets.

No but if you are buying a car or a TV you could have a choice of retailers in different towns, or in different states. Not all states are big, and in any case you may live close to the border with another.

Think what, though?

“I’d rather pay £20 less for those cranks and that there was no cancer treatment available on the NHS because *I* don’t have cancer and therefore it’s not a priority for me”

?

What a truly bizarre thought process.

Theres nowt better than a bit of cancer to emotionalise an argument eh !

And all because I thought the trainers were cheap

That’s STW for you 🙂

Groceries are not cheaper, at least not in California.

Tax burden is about the same plus you pay for health insurance and you pay at the point of delivery.

I’m not knocking the place but it’s not hugely less expensive for many things.

Interesting to see how different areas have their own taxes

Last time I was over there, in New York, it was pretty much the same cost as the UK for everything (food, clothes, drinks, etc).

Interesting to see how different areas have their own taxes

You really had no clue about the US did you?

In fact, here’s a recent post just for you:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/survey-shows-british-public-wrong-about-everything

Thing is, when you pay VAT here, you pay the same rate no matter whereabouts in the UK you are (not sure about IoM, Channel Islands, etc) so what’s the point in putting price minus the VAT on display? The only place I see this is in builders’ merchants, tool stores where most of the customers will be VAT registered – so they’ll be claiming it back anyway. Comparing prices minus VAT would be pointless as each retailer has to add the same % tax anyway. 😕

Spent 3 weeks in California over Christmas – on balance I thought everything was similarly priced.

Oh and nobody’s mentioned tipping yet. Now, there’s a bloody stealth tax. 🙂