If I was riding that road on my own I’d be in the “L” position which GrahamS/TJ refer to. If I was “with company” I’d probably be riding two abreast, and in my opinion that is the safer option (more visible, shorter over take for following traffic, and forces traffic to make a “safe” overtake not a squeeze through). Not only were they technically in the right, I think they were actually doing the sensible thing.

However if I ever feel the need to film my riding for “evidence” then I’ll probably stop riding on the road! That said, rather than put it on Youtube I might have been inclined to let the local road policing unit decide who actually committed an offence? The people riding legally or the driver behind an aggressive overtake who then walks into the road to stop and shout at two cyclists… …his number plate is clearly visible.

*Jeremy sits back and wonders why the rear of his tandem is always empty*

There is no reason to hold up traffic and cause drivers to be frustrated, to do so is just plain shitty!

Yes they may have the law on thier sides but the law as it stands is a whimsical farce that only slaves to idiocy would adhere too!

If a lot of cyclists acted in this way our roads could very quickly become grid locked!

To cause others distress or act in a way that is detrimental to thier quality of lives is wrong, anyone that is able to justify blatant manipulations of the law in certain circumstances, whereby for no good reason others lose moments of thier lives, is an asshole plain and simple.

Just out of curiosity and for future reference, If I wanted to pull in front of these cyclists at a safe distance and then slow down in front of them, for example to test out my brakes functionality, would that be legal?

Riding two abreast is legal. According to The Highway Code, cyclists should “never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file where the road narrows or on the approach to a bend”.

Source http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/technique-road-positioning-197/

so the fact you can’t actually see the roundabout you’re talking about for the majority of the clip also confirms you’re in the wrong,

There are red triangle warning signs on both sides of the road, a big roundabout directional sign plus multiple SLOWs written on the roads with accompanying speed lines.

You might not be able to “actually see the roundabout” in the clip, but if you don’t know it is coming up then you shouldn’t be on the road (on a bike OR in a car).

he wouldn’t have made the angry swerve, if you those idiots had just ridden single file an arms length from the kerb.

some people don’t get it do they. If they had been riding single file in a good safe road position the van would still have had to move into the overtaking lane in exactly the same manner.

I’m in the nay camp, the main reason why people ride two abreast is to chat, not a safe thing to do in my book.

Why isn’t chatting a safe thing to do? Don’t people in cars get to sit two abreast chatting?

some people don’t get it do they. If they had been riding single file in a good safe road position the van would not have had to move into the overtaking lane in the same manner.

Why isn’t chatting a safe thing to do? Don’t people in cars get to sit two abreast chatting?

awesome post. there are so many things that are good about it, it’s difficult to know where to begin the praise.

According to The Highway Code, cyclists should “never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file where the road narrows or on the approach to a bend”.

Occasionally the HC is wrong – I know the CTC tried to get that advice removed in the most recent update. For reasons being argued above (just because TJ is arguing doesn’t mean he’s wrong), singling out in those situations just encourages drivers to overtake unsafely. Just to use the example of one which isn’t the case for the video being discussed, try actually thinking about that advice – what is the benefit to anybody of singling out before a bend?

some people don’t get it do they. If they had been riding single file in a good safe road position the van would not still have had to move into the overtaking lane in the same manner in order to give them enough room.

some people don’t get it do they. If they had been riding single file in a good safe road position the van would not have had to move into the overtaking lane in the same manner.

Exactly, it’s not about right or wrong, we all know drivers get wound up, it’s about safety, and common sense. Avoid confrontation, don’t look for it.

awesome post. there are so many things that are good about it, it’s difficult to know where to begin the praise.

*Blushes* *Flutters eyelashes*

some people don’t get it do they. If they had been riding single file in a good safe road position the van would not have had to move into the overtaking lane in the same manner.

However, if they were riding single file, its likely that angry WVM would have squeezed past with just inches to spare putting them in more danger.

There seem to be far too many angry and inconsiderate and impatient motorists about these days, and it seems to be getting worse.

Mrs KFP was driving at 30mph in a 30 mph limit past our local school the other day and WVM was tailgating and swerving all over the road to overtake. Its not a problem confined to cycling any more. And have you ever tried driving at 20 mph in a 20 mph limit? Its impossible. You’d get the same aggravation as the cyclists here.

Some people just shouldnt be driving a vehicle, they have serious anger problems.

i’d love to show this thread to the car drivers that hate cyclists, they would realise that we are not all road hogging morons who seem determined to make life difficult for other road users at every turn and we don’t all think alike.

Exactly, it’s not about right or wrong, we all know drivers get wound up, it’s about safety, and common sense. Avoid confrontation, don’t look for it.

If you are looking for common sense you’ve come to the wrong place.

+1 btw

Obviously lots of people seem to think these guys (and their supporters) are just being pedantic on an obscure point of law or being “technically” right.

But legality (or pedantry) isn’t really the point.

IMO they are riding in the safest possible way, taking the primary, well out from the kerb, obvious and visible, and in a position that encourages (most) others to pass them safely using the other lane.

I can’t understand why others think it is safer to ride in the gutter and allow cars to squeeze past in the same lane.

Look at that still frame I posted earlier – there just isn’t room in one lane for a bike in a safe secondary position (say arms length from the kerb as some suggested), a reasonable clearance, plus a van.

Reasonable clearance:

it’s about safety, and common sense.

On that we agree!

i’d love to show this thread to the car drivers that hate cyclists, they would realise that we are not all road hogging morons who seem determined to make life difficult for other road users at every turn some of us are quite happy to ride in the gutter so that WVM doesn’t have to go to the trouble of moving that awkward steering wheel

When the title said a two lane road, I was assuming one lane in either direction, in wich case it’s courteous to go in single file so cars can pass – a road like this, when traffic is flowing freely, I’m amazed that it’s even a question. Of course it’s both right and legal that they were riding side by side.

A side point as well – pedestrians, horse riders and cyclists have a legal right to use the roads. Drivers only do so under license – drivers have less right to be on the road, not more.

i think this thread goes a long way to indicate what is wrong with cycling on the roads. if we, as a bunch of cyclists, have absolutely no consensus then how, or why, do we expect car drivers (and wvm) to know what to expect of us.

I hate to say it but I am more and more in favour of compulsory more widespread cycle training.

My words to the van driver – “Are you the f*in police?” not “sorry” that’s for sure.

Or… “seeing as you’ve so kindly stopped us… can we check your tyres and the general road worthiness of your vehicle?”

Surely the appropriate action when the driver’s walking up the middle of the road towards you is to wait until there’s a car coming up behind you wanting to overtake and then pull over quickly into the layby so that the road is now clear for the driver to continue in the left lane?

post deleted to stop myself looking like a dick…apologies aracer 😳

post deleted because everyone else is a dick 😀

post deleted to stop me also looking like a dick (I manage that well enough anyway without responding to posts others have deleted).

doh!

I would say riding two a breast can make overtaking much more difficult on a narrow country road for drivers.

But in that case there is not enough room for cyclist/car/car so it doesnt make any difference if they ride two a breast in fact it might be safer, as there is no chance of two cars trying to over take you at once.

And if there was only one cyclist they’d be best taking up the whole lane anyhow.

i think we’ve all learnt a valuable lesson here.

Perhaps all is needed is common sense all round? And in this case, I am not sure anyone is showing much.

I sympathise with the CTC view and adopt that idea myself – ie, make the car (legally) go round you. But there are occassions eg, a fast moving dual carriage way, where this merely puts the cyclist in more danger. Far better and safer to slip back into single file in that case. IMHO of course!!

its all your fault prawn, with your sneaky non quotation editing skills….

theprawn – Member
some people don’t get it do they. If they had been riding single file in a good safe road position the van would not have had to move into the overtaking lane in the same manner.

For the drivers in the inside lane to overtake safely had those riders been single file, they would have to move so far over into the outside lane that other cars would be unable to pass them in that lane anyway…..if the drivers overtook the cyclist by squeezing past and staying in the same lane entirely, that would not be a safe overtake.

People don’t seem to have the same rage for horse riders, do they? But a horse takes up much more width on the road, generally moves slower than a cyclist and you have to overtake at a far lower speed to avoid it going completely mental.
I don’t understand why this is the case. Cyclists get shouted at, whereas in general horse riders seem to get a smile and a wave. Perhaps it’s the knee high boots, jodhpurs & riding crop??

its all your fault prawn, with your sneaky non quotation editing skills…

in your face. 8)

i think we’ve all learnt a valuable lesson here.

Yes – and theprawn is the only one who still looks like a <connection terminated>

sorry, have i upset you?

I just thought we were all in this together

i have no idea what that means

They were legally right and the van driver was in the wrong confronting them

I regularly ride two abreast however on a road like that i would not ride two abreast going at the speed they were going. They look as if they are pootling along about 12mph or maybe less…it might be legally right but if it was me i’d feel i was being inconsiderate to other road users.

Going by what is said the guy on the left is obviously not particularly comfortable with the situation but the one with the camera is. IMO there is a tendency for some helmet camera wearing commuters to ride or act in a way that makes them more prone to get a reaction. It probably isn’t that they do it for youtube hits, it is as if they think having a camera provides a magic bubble that gives them more protection.

if it was me i’d feel i was being inconsiderate to other road users.

Another common theme.

Is it not better to put everyone’s safety first, even if it means being “inconsiderate” and “selfish” by forcing other roads users to turn their steering wheel?

I’d rather be inconsiderate than dead.

GrahamS – your profile says that you like having net arguments, so I can’t work out how seriously you views are here and how they link to the flashing lights thread. In the latter, you debate with TJ about the need to speed up if in an awkward situation in contrast to TJ’s argument that he never lets himself get into the situation in the first place. So I am trying to see if you are being consistent here. On the one hand, you are, but equally I think the point the HC makes is that at times (ie fast, busy dual carriage ways) riding two abreast could be more dangerous. In this case, I think you are in danger of being in the car/lorry up your bumper scenario but without the ability to step on the gas.

I agree with your final point above – but what type of riding is really inconsiderate?

if you rode like that in london you probably would be inconsiderate and soon after dead.