Viewing 35 posts - 1 through 35 (of 35 total)
  • Can this be fixed? Steel Frame Rusted Through Seat Tube
  • Mac
    Free Member

    Hey guys,

    Couple of questions to the STW massive.

    – Would any of you know if the damage (shown below) is repairable?
    – If so can anyone recommend who can do the work (preferably based in London)?
    – Finally, assuming it is repairable, is it possible (or perhaps the better question is is it wise) to add disc brake mounts to an old road frame such as this that wasn’t originally designed for it?

    The bike in question is my 90’s era Paul Donohue reynolds 853 steel frame which has unfortunately rusted through. The damage is on the seat tube just above the join to the BB.

    And yes, before the abuse starts I realise now that I should have done something much early to prevent this from happening! Its only when I started hacking at the paint that was bubbling up that I realise the extent of the damage. Its such a nice, well fitting frame that I’d prefer to repair it than buy new.

    Thanks!




    lovewookie
    Full Member

    I’m pretty sure a decent framebuilder would be able to bung a new tube in there for you, but only if the rest of the frame hasn’t suffered too badly.
    It won’t be that cheap either.

    look at bikefix for examples

    Mac
    Free Member

    Thanks @lovewookie

    I’ve pinged them, and another company called Argos Racing Cycles in Bristol an email to see if they can help.

    Would love other recommendations if anyone has them.

    Rockhopper
    Free Member

    Argos have a very good rep.

    ghostlymachine
    Free Member

    Depends what condition the rest of the frame is in. And how hard it’ll be to replace.
    If it’s a standard geometry, and a bit manky all over it *might* be cheaper and easier to buy new. Welding a new tube into a manky, rusty, 20 year old frame may well be a dead end…….. and I think Donohoe are still making frames (?)

    If it’s a custom frame with an unusual tubeset it might be with having it looked at and fixed. As it’ll be expensive to replace.
    A lot of Reynolds frames will have normal 4130 stays, forks and head tube for instance.

    deejayen
    Free Member

    I know he’s not in London, but it might be worth contacting Dave Yates (some prices here). My memory is hazy, but I think he and Paul Donohue might have worked together back in the day.

    I once took a 531 frame which had rusted through on the chainstay behind the bottom bracket to Chas Roberts in Croydon, but he said he couldn’t/wouldn’t repair it because metal was too thin (or something like that).

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    I’m in a similar boat. I’ve got a 25 year old frame with a large crack in the manky, rusty, downtube. When I took it apart to rebuild 18 months ago, the BB shell was packed with grease, as was most of the seattube, so it could be that the other tubes are in good nick.

    How do I find out though? Would e.g. Argos be able to establish how sound the rest of the frame is?

    The frame’s very non standard now, headset, seattube, forward facing dropouts. If I got another frame there would be some redundant bits and some more bits needed, so there’s a cost to swap, which I’d rather put into keeping this one alive.

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    Dave Yates did some work on my dekerf. great work, great paint!

    Mac
    Free Member

    Thanks guys – I’ve emailed a couple now to see what they think. Responses so far…

    – Bike Fix

    In short they don’t think its economical or possible to repair as they fear the rest of the tubes will be in the same condition. To my untrained eyes the rest of the frame looks fine so as they are only 20 mins away in central london I may wheel it over to see what they think

    – Bob Jackson Cycles (found on google )

    Super quick response! In summary they say its possible…

    I’m guessing the reason this has failed is no drain hole in shell and water has sat in bottom of seat tube. This would require a new seat tube which we would bronze weld into place This repair is quoted with 631 tube, If you want 853 we can do this.

    Mac
    Free Member

    Great – I’ll send some photos of to Dave Yates as well and see if he knows anything about the brand/can help! Great suggestion!

    Mac
    Free Member

    @ghostlymachine

    Donohue I don’t believe makes frames anymore, the website is dead but you can see old versions of it on waybackmachine.

    The downtube looks bespoke, its a strange ovalised tube that for the 90s must have been pretty innovative.

    @nedrapier I’ll let you know what Argos say. I imagine you should do as I’ve done and send them some photos.

    cjr61
    Full Member

    Winston is brilliant and based in Lewisham. He did a cracking patch job on a cracked 853 Pace frame. I did the aesthetic tidy up so don’t judge him on that!

    http://www.varonha.co.uk



    dragon
    Free Member

    To my untrained eyes the rest of the frame looks fine

    But its corroded from inside out, so right now you just can’t tell what condition the chainstays and downtube are in, unless you get the BB out and have a look.

    ghostlymachine
    Free Member

    Never mind BB, the whole frame will require stripping and inpecting. And if the Seat tube/bottom bracket joint is sealed, hows the stay/BB and Down tube/BB, if they are both sealed, you’re in the shit.

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    What was the quote from Bob Jackson, Mac?

    mcj78
    Free Member

    I’d opt for stripping it before deciding on any further action too – I had an old frame blasted & chemically cleaned a couple of years ago prior to a new lick of paint & it there was a bit of corrosion along one of the stays that was completely invisible from the outside, mine was fixable pretty easily but if your ST has got that bad there’s a fair chance that whole junction has started to deteriorate to some degree… you should be able to get it stripped for about £20-£30 to see what you’re dealing with – good luck!

    Mac
    Free Member

    Hey there

    Quotes are coming in around the £400-£450 range to have the seat tube completely replaced and the frame and forks repainted.

    For some additional cost I could have a disc brake mount braised on. Argos advise that it can be done for the rear wheel but not for the front i.e. can’t add it to the forks.

    Stripping the frame – I don’t even know where to start on that one? Is it easy to do? Time to search the forum for advice on that I guess. Sounds like a good starter for 10. Strip, assess if any of the other tubes are wrecked then I know how much exposure I’m at.

    I guess for £400-£450 its very much a question of how much do I like this bike vs what could I get to replace it with. Decisions decisions decisions.

    Thanks for all the input – some really useful suggestions in the thread!

    lovewookie
    Full Member

    personally I’d not trust something that’s corroded all the way through on one tube to be intact enough in the others to warrant £400+.

    I’d be looking at trying other bikes out.

    mick_r
    Full Member

    I’m all for repairing, but you could get a brand new copy made of that frame for not much more money than the repair:-

    http://www.steve-goff-frames.co.uk/frames.shtml

    Burls have some on the shelf fillet brazed Columbus Spirit frames for £500.
    http://burls.co.uk/titanium_stock.php

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    blimey, that’s a lot. I had 2 dents filled, canti bosses removed and made good, cable stops off and hydro guides brazed on, and a disc mount put on, plus fancy spangly 2 colour paint job with forks to match (also had canti bosses removed and made good) for £470 by Dave Yates.

    £100 to that Winston chap for a seattube replacement, then off to a powder coater who should strip the rest and coat it for £40-60

    letmetalktomark
    Full Member

    Very smart.

    Loving this detail 8)

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    Or per mickr – gerra new ‘un!

    Very glad I spent on my Dekerf though, I took it out for a thrash last night. It’s magic.

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    Why the offset slot on that seat tube?

    [Quote]And if the Seat tube/bottom bracket joint is sealed, hows the stay/BB and Down tube/BB, if they are both sealed, you’re in the shit.[/quote]

    How would water have got in?

    ghostlymachine
    Free Member

    Through the head tube, through the blow/breather holes in the stays. Why?

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    Quotes are coming in around the £400-£450 range to have the seat tube completely replaced and the frame and forks repainted.

    That’s expensive. Very expensive.
    I had a chainstay replaced by Argos and the frame painted with new transfers and it was around £225 if I recall correctly
    Just had a quick look and they charge £130 for a new seat tube (I guess it depends on the exact tubing used) and paint from £60….. from £155 for frame and forks

    (the paint I had done was £120 about 6 years ago)

    EDIT
    That price is Reynolds 725 tubing, so decent stuff.

    dovebiker
    Full Member

    Is the frame brazed or tig-welded? It’s easier to ‘sweat’ the old seatube out if brazed than welded. I’d also want to know the condition of the chainstays – water enters through the breather holes near the hub and gathers by the BB and rusts through. TBH, for what you’re being quoted, you’d be as good to put your money into something else – you could pick up a similar quality frame for £250 used now that Hipsters are no longer riding retro-fixies, the price of most steel frames has hit the floor – only top-end Italian frames are making good money.

    chestrockwell
    Full Member

    From memory Yates and Donohue worked for Two Wheels Good in the 80’s and were responsible for the original Orange and a few of the hand built Formula bikes that followed. Over on retrobike we’re getting over excited about the original prototype Yates Orange turning up!

    Speaking of retrobike, it’s worth getting over there for recommendations as plenty of people have had tubes repaired and for less than is being quoted. Can well believe the theory from Jacksons as early Fat Chane bikes didn’t have a drain hole and loads have gone in the same place as yours. Most have been repaired too so good luck.

    twisty
    Full Member

    I’d strip down the frame in the first instance. With the BB/forks etc out you can peer in and better ascertain the overall condition of the frame and what work would be required to restore it.

    duner
    Free Member

    Replacing the seat tube tube is much harder than any other tube, as all the other tubes are joined to it. Your quotes are therefore not unreasonable. Personally I wouldn’t bother as you could pick up a similar quality second hand frame for much less.

    Del
    Full Member

    ^ that.
    you’re looking at this all wrong. good opportunity for a new bike.

    mrjmt
    Free Member

    Have you looked at Stayer cycles?

    Think they’d be able to sort that kind of thing, and they’re in London.

    No experience of their frame building but very impressed with their wheels.

    mcj78
    Free Member

    £400 for a repair would put me right off – I picked up a new 931 frame for that on ebay recently, might be time to start looking around for a replacement – especially as you can’t see the inside of any of the other tubes even once you’ve had it stripped – it’s a tough call… if you really like the frame though & find somewhere that can replace ST for substantially less, you could always have it powdercoated instead of paint to save a bit more cash getting it back on the road again.
    j

    alchiltern
    Free Member

    Another vote for Winston Vaz at Varohna, he’s ex Chas Roberts and recently replaced the ovalised 853 top tube on my Dogs Bolx. Cost was about £120 iirc (he actually built it originally).

    For finishing, I took it to Armourtex for power coating, who did a pricy but superb two coat job on it. Alternatively I think Winston’s brother runs Vaz finishers, on the floor above Winston’s workshop, though as lead free paints are now used, they’re much more prone to chipping. You should be able to get a plain powder coat for £60 ish.

    As others have said, I’d probably want to strip the frame down first and try to ascertain if the problem is isolated to just the seat tube. If you’re looking at problems with the BB shell, chain stays etc too, then unless the frame has personal value retirement is probably the best option.

    jonathan
    Free Member

    There’s always a risk in throwing money at something like this, so it just depends if it’s worth it to you personally. I had a lovely Bontrager frame for years and ended up running it as a nice singlespeed. Decided to get it resprayed (by Dave Yates as it happens) – but once he’d extracted the seized BB (lovely Mavic thing) and stripped the frame it was clear the seat tube was pretty Swiss cheesy (under the heavy powdercoat). He was happy to fix it if I wanted to, but didn’t think it was worth it given the chance of other tubes (especially the down tube) being corroded. I’d already asked Keith Bontrager’s opinion on dealing with the various riveted bits on the frame, so asked him and he thought it was time to just let it go and move on. So I did. Couldn’t actually bin it though – so it’s still hung up in the barn. Fully stripped you can see all the different construction techniques used 😉

    buckster
    Free Member

    Very smart.

    Loving this detail

    Yup, but the Hope seat clamp is a dogs dinner on that frame

Viewing 35 posts - 1 through 35 (of 35 total)

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