BPW had a serendipitous demo day yesterday coinciding with me forgetting my SPD shoes so I had a blast on a few pricey new bikes over a few hours.

I first tried a 650b Remedy in a rather dashing peach and baby blue colour scheme. Perfectly decent bike but noticeably less plush than my normal Norco Shinobi.

I then had a go on a bike that I have hated for many years as it seems like an massively overpriced anachronism, the Alpine 160 (650b also).

This was, by some measure, the fastest, plushest and most fun bike I’ve ridden down a hill I can remember. I stand corrected.

The front end was a bit high and it was quite heavy despite flows/Pro2 and high spec but not too draining with the granny ring. Completely eclipsed the Remedy (which just felt like an overly-porky fuel ex, to be honest. The Alpine was a hoot on rocks are roots and didn’t pedal too badly on flowier trails.

I then tried the same bike with Fox suspension (Vs Pike and Monarch Plus) and prefered the black to the gold gear.

Alpine Five (29) was very nice going down but the front end was incredibly high and was consequently a real pig on the climbs. Still, if they shortened the headtube it’d be a really ripper.

No bothers with brake jack in either case.

Despite being from Halifax I’m not an Orange fan (messed around a few mates over the years) but I’d seriously consider a single pivot bike again after riding those.

Alpine Five (29) was very nice going down but the front end was incredibly high and was consequently a real pig on the climbs. Still, if they shortened the headtube it’d be a really ripper.

Did you slam the stem, and have flat bars? I find it’s pretty decent to climb on.

I had the same experience on a 29er Remedy, was too XC feeling for me.

The lack of response to this thread is, perhaps, quite telling. Maybe people just don’t care about Orange so much these days.

I agree, if you ride one they are fun, but I suspect that most younger riders never get that far. They just see an expensive old fashioned bike. Are there any youngsters these days who lust after an Orange?

I was speaking with a bike shop owner the other day who used to stock Orange, but doesn’t any more. His comment was that the only people who seemed to be interested in Orange bikes were people who already owned Orange bikes. Having a loyal fan base is great, but Orange can’t just survive on repeat business from old farts like me. Sooner or later we’re all going to die, or take up road biking.

The Five 29’s bloomin brilliant tbh. I rode it around, build up a list of faults and annoyances in my head, crashed it because of the absurdly bad tyres, still got off it raving. There’s a lot not to like about Orange but they do make some good bikes

An Orange convert here. Wanted a Rocket but we all know how that ended. Had a pile of parts ready to go so needed a 26″ FS frame. Part of wanting a Rocket was the built in UK part, so an Alpine 160 26 was really the only choice.

It’s an absolute hooligan when you point it downhill, and climbs WAY better than I expected – quicker on any remotely tech climb than my BFe. Only slight criticism is it’s a bit sluggish to change direction on tight, twisty wooded trails but it is a loooong slack bike so I can live with that. I know STW is sceptical of weight claims but I’m pretty sure my 31lb is accurate so not a problem for all day in the hills either.

Not sure why no-one shouts about them any more? Fear of ridicule on here? To busy out riding their bike? Was out walking in Borrowdale yesterday and saw a fair few riders doing the bash – maybe 1/3 of them on Halifax built machinery…

Plus, now being an Orange owner allows me to have a cool custom stem cap.

Loving my 2014 old school 26″ Alpine. Seems to handle anything i throw at it.

I was out with two thirds of the Midgley Orange Five Owner’s Club yesterday and we stuck the bikes in the van while we went to the pub and putting them in reminded me why I don’t have one anymore- the weight of the things is staggering, especially considering the cost. If I didn’t have to ride mediocre local trails or ride up hills I’d definitely have one again but unfortunately I do. That and the price of them these days is truly eye-watering- I loved owning one, but having one as an only bike would be prohibitive. I think you’re better off with your Norco for most of the riding you do.

Hmmm. unlucky.

Back in the day before the 5 it was the sub5. I had a series of frame related issues, including a genuine JRA frame failure and a couple of other quality issues. Orange were extremely difficult to deal with and had to be chased constantly. In the end, I got a replacement frame on some kind of subsidised ‘crash replacement’.

I was sick of dealing with them and didn’t trust the product anymore, so I sold it and moved to a turner 5spot. I found a multi pivot bike much more refined and somewhat less agricultural, especially on technical climbing. Nearly 10 years later and 4 multi pivot bike later, I’m still resolved not to ever own another one. Apart from Pace, they have been the singularly worst bike company I’ve ever had to deal with.

I’ve nothing particularly against single pivot bikes and there are plenty of ‘orange-alike’ bike available, so if I was in the market for another bike, I’d look at alternatives to orange every time!

Are there any youngsters these days who lust after an Orange?

Yep.

I liked the idea of a nice single pivot alpine, for low maintenance…
booked a test ride and everything…

I was struggling with the cost/value issue though.

somehow ended up with a pivot mach 6…

IMO maintenance shouldn’t be a big sell really, the difference in lifetime cost between a single pivot and (well designed) multipivot bike isn’t that much really, my horst bike has some titchy bearings that wear fairly quick but even then it costs me maybe £20-30 a year, trivial in the grand scheme. If you like the single pivot feel then buy it for that reason but if you don’t then choosing it just for that seems daft.

(also I think it’s probably no coincidence that just about every Orange I’ve ever worked on had trashed bearings- people think they can just forget about it. Though on the old Alpine I think you just replaced the bearings when the swingarm cracked, then resumed telling everyone how bombproof and reliable it was 😉 )

Love my 26″ Alpine. I’m not loyal to the brand per se, but the bike itself is ace. For me the right balance of heft, speed, steadiness and manoeuvrability. Not much point in having one if you’re riding trail centres or grassy hills, but if you ride rocky steep stuff or gravity trails it surely has to be in the short list?

edit, wrong thread

somehow ended up with a pivot mach 6…

Mach 6 for the win!

Having to do the bearing on my banshee prime after 5 months annoyed me enough yesterday to think maybe it will be a five29 next time. Weight wise the banshee weighs a ton so no disadvantage there.

The Five 29’s bloomin brilliant tbh

How tall are you Northwind? The Alpine Five (Five29) has a 140mm head tube, I think. With 140mm 29er forks I can see that it might be tricky for some folks to get the bars low enough. I see that the Segment has a 110mm head tube (and 20mm shorter forks). Maybe that will offer all the fun of the Five29 in a package that is easier to pedal and fits more folk.

we stuck the bikes in the van while we went to the pub and putting them in reminded me why I don’t have one anymore- the weight of the things is staggering,

I thought one of the advantages of a Single Pivot was that it was lighter than a multi-pivot design? Is the weight of a Five frame really much different to that of any other aluminium trail bike, ot are they just built up heavier?

Sooner or later we’re all going to die, or take up road biking.

😆

My serious input to this thread is a similar experience to the OP. I test-rode an Orange 5 and loved it. I didn’t buy it because I wanted something a little less ubiquitous.

My serious input to this thread is a similar experience to the OP. I test-rode an Orange 5 and loved it. I didn’t buy it because I wanted something a little less ubiquitous.

Well, wait a while, they seem to be becoming less popular 🙂

Seriously, I think Orange do face some major challenges.

First, nobody cares where stuff is made these days. You can debate the merits of buying British in a global economy all day, but the fact is that very few customers care. Most people just want as much bike as they can get for as little of their cash as possible.

With oil prices low (and apparantly set to stay that way for a while) they are always going to look expensive compared with frames made in the Far East. In the past they had an answer to this as they held their prices well, so total cost of ownership was lower than some other brands. But the ever changing standards has killed off this selling point too. It’s still true that Orange will refurbish your old frame for a couple of hundred quid and it will look and ride like it did when it was new. But it will still be your old bike. Most people these days seem to have bought into the idea that mountain bikes are getting better (rather than just different) all the time. So they expect a bike to be obselete in a couple of years, which make the original price more important than how long it might last.

Still, I like them, so I wish them well.

TBH I’ve a feeling Orange are pretty happy where they are- they got out of the cheap-taiwanese-hardtail-with-expensive-stickers thing they used to do, and apparently they’re on their production limit in the UK.

roverpig – Member

How tall are you Northwind?

5’10. I think the ones I rode were mediums with flat bars on but I’d be lying if I said for sure. But they both climbed fine, a wee bit blobby on hard stabby pedalling in technical stuff maybe.

Also to be fair my own big bike climbs like shit so perhaps I’m forgiving 😆

I love my superlight, I’m guessing an orange would just be a slightly heavier, slacker, bit stronger/stiffer version.

I’d have one, despite the grilling they get on here.

I know STW is sceptical of weight claims but I’m pretty sure my 31lb is accurate so not a problem for all day in the hills either.

Its not STW being skeptical, its a healthy dose of realism!….the industry print some absurdly optimistic figures for their bikes (if you can find the weight at all)….i have tried to find out the official weight of my 2015 Trance frame (as it feels ridiculously light even for Alu) but Giant dont even say on their own website…instead they print some vague nonsense about how every bike is different and if you want to know the weight of your Trance then get the dealership to weigh it for you!

Enduro website/magazine guys took delivery of a 27.5 Alpine 160 as a long termer and found it weighed 35-lb on delivery despite carbon pedals and a tubeless setup!….they then spent money on carbon Six-C cranks, Enve wheels, Renthal carbon kit, San Marco roadie saddle, titanium pedals etc which cost them £3500 to do and brought the weight down to….32-lb.

With a new bike running tubeless, a 1x drivetrain, air suspension, carbon this, titanium that and to still weigh 32-lb i think you can appreciate the skeptical raised eyebrows on here when someone claims their AM/Enduro rig is under 30-lbs….its not that people are deliberately pooh-poohing the bikes we each have, its more of a jaded ‘yeah whatever’ to the ever optimistic industry weights we get spoon fed….it was refreshing to see Enduro mag do this and not get swayed into making stuff up just to please advertisers.

Dirt magazine gets some stick on here too (mainly for Steve Jones writing ‘style’….) but they are at least honest about bike weights…they weighed a DH bike last year at 36-lb and said they were gobsmacked at how light it was, they reckoned some AM/Enduro bikes currently on sale weight the same!
Now if you were to say to anybody that their AM/Enduro bike weighs 36-lb they’d tell you to stop talking nonsense and give you a figure around the 30-lb mark instead…people want to believe the hype.

Personally once the bike is rolling i dont notice the weight, my hardtail is a heavily reinforced/gusseted steel thing with heavy coil forks, OEM wheels and Deore level drivetrain and brakes….i’m also running tubes and dual ply tyres through winter…with heavy duty Kore and Hussefelt finishing kit….it is easily the heaviest bike i’ve owed but it rides brilliantly and its small dimensions (16 inch frame, 26 inch wheels) means that it is so easy to chuck around, the only time i notice the weight is lifting it in the car.

First, nobody cares where stuff is made these days.

Untrue, I do for starters, if deciding between two products, the fact that one is made ‘In house’ will often sway me.

I came to within a whisker of buying an Orange 5 650b last year, it was really only their relatively flexy back ends and high shock leverage ratios (I’m a big boy) that put me off. Had they been ‘just another’ Taiwanese bike brand I doubt I’d have even looked at them.

But I do appreciate that I am in a minority though.

I care too – that’s why I was in line for a Cotic Rocket.
Never cared for single-pivots without extra linkages though.

Untrue, I do for starters,

Fair point, so do I, what I should have said is that not enough people care for it to be a useful business model.

I know Cotic were looking as doing some manufacturing here, so there must be advantages too. But that was back when oil prices were high and everybody was saying they’d just keep getting higher.

I couldn’t care less where stuff is made. I’d rather pay less for the same thing If there is an option to do so and if that means outsourcing production then so be it. But even so, if Empire can do it for £1k for a frame I don’t see why Orange couldn’t- if, of course, it weren’t for the fact that they sell out and people are happy to pay it. Because they do ride very nicely downhill- they seem to have this amazing ability to just cope with stuff if you put your weight above the rear axle.

I thought one of the advantages of a Single Pivot was that it was lighter than a multi-pivot design? Is the weight of a Five frame really much different to that of any other aluminium trail bike, ot are they just built up heavier?

I ride a carbon Stumpjumper. My spec is Pikes, XT brakes, Zee 1×10 with carbon cranks, Easton Haven wheels, reverb. One of the Fives had a similar spec- Pikes, XT 1×10, Hope/Flow wheels which I guess is an extra pound. And it was noticeably heavier. The other was a Pro with the 819 rim ugrade and a gravity dropper and it felt very heavy. My old Five was 34lbs with Lyriks, Hope/Flow wheels and a Reverb. The Stumpjumper has 10mm more travel at the back and is about 26lbs on the same scales. A lot lighter.

Maybe that will offer all the fun of the Five29 in a package that is easier to pedal and fits more folk.

Ive yet to meet someone thats ridden both a Alpine Five and a Gyro/Segment and thought the Segment/Gyro made sense.

The Alpine Five is a bike thats meant for riding steep, technical and rough ground. If you were pottering around Thetford then you really dont want an Orange.

I used to have a 2011 Five Spot, and the Alpine Five is a far better bike for the riding I do.

Northwind – both were mediums that you rode 🙂

I run my Alpine Five with 150mm 34s a flat bar and one 5mm spacer. Feels perfect. Some whove ridden it find it too head down.

2015 Five Pro is 32lbs on my cheapo luggage scales.
(Reverb, Fox 34’s & std wheels etc.).
Ticked the boxes for me.

Ive yet to meet someone thats ridden both a Alpine Five and a Gyro/Segment and thought the Segment/Gyro made sense.

Have you met anybody who has ridden an Alpine Five (Five29) and a Segment? I ten to agree with you on the Five29/Gyro comparison and I hear the stuff about the Segment just being a Gyro with a slackewr head angle. But I’ve not ridden one, yet, so am prepared to give Orange the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the SEgment does make sense 🙂 It could be a moot point soon though, if the rumours about Orange dropping the Alpine Five from the range are to be believed.

munrobiker: just out of interest, do you think that the weight is mainly an issue when you are loading the bikes into the van, or are you finding that you now have to wait for people that used to keep up?

Not trying to be argumentative here. The Stumpy obviously works for you. Just interested in this whole “how important is weight out on the trail” argument.

I don’t see why you would test a Segment vs an Alpine 5, their so far apart, it makes no sense to test head to head in my mind. Again, I have no interest in the Alpine but did like the Segment alot, just not enough.

Why is everyone trying to get a lower front end now? Last time I looked a low front end was ‘retro’ and everyone was going wider and higher.

Agree with comments above re: Alpine 5/ Five 29. I love mine although it’s a big old unit. I’ve thought about a Segment (Less so the Gyro) and a 650b 5 as my bike is almost too much for me but I would miss the ability of the 29 just to loose some weight. As has been mentioned, if you buy Orange there’s not much point worrying about the weight too much.

Until a few months ago my everyday trail bike was a 5. This went up, down and along, both local woods playing and long all day rides.

It weighed 27lbs, but it could’ve done with stiffer wheels.

What always get me about Oranges, is now much hate ppl seem to have towards them, when they’ve not even tried one (never owned one myself).

Roverpig- for me, very important. I find that hauling a lighter bike up stuff allows me to have more energy on the bits that count, going down, especially if there’s a lot of hike-a-bike. For some, 32lbs is an acceptable weight.

Mind you, for all of us this weekend, low weight was very important.

I suspect I am in marginally less agony today than the others!

Ive not demoed a Segment, but know those who have back to back with the Alpine Five and Alpine 160.

The Segment was the least liked. Skittery i think was the term used.

Again this is in a specific demo environment on very te hnical trails.

Where did you hear about Orange dropping the Alpine Five? Id have thought it would be the Alpine160 if anything, as the Five has just stolen its front trangle, and I am now struggling to see the point of both.

Skittery? Really?
I could see them coming up short due to the lack of travel, but skittery? Very strange.
I’ve not tried an Alpine5, so…

Where did you hear about Orange dropping the Alpine Five

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-offset-fork-for-orange-alpine-five

That’d be a shame, it’s damn fine. Better than any Five or Alpine I’ve ever ridden despite its flaws.

Nooooooooo!

That’s shocking, the Alpine Five is one of the most underrated bikes around. I don’t see what the Segment is for, when you can have the Alpine Five. 110mm of rear travel just isn’t enough for technical rocky riding.

That means there’s going to be barely any long travel 29ers about if that’s the case. The Carbine29 would have been, but the sizes are weird.

Sad day indeed.

It seems like everytime I buy a new bike, the next year it’s discontinued – same happened with my Five Spot. Total bike assassin.