Viewing 14 posts - 81 through 94 (of 94 total)
  • Reducing Teenage pregnancies…
  • Sandwich
    Full Member

    On a related tangent, Breadline Britain is covering this very topic over a short series.

    JacksonPollock
    Free Member

    but is it then wrong to make a link between, on average, poverty and crime?

    Yes, to make a link between poverty and crime per se. You can of course make links between poverty and types of crime.

    There is definitely the perception (arguably due to disproportionate reporting in the media and concentration of police resources in poor areas)that poverty and crime & deviancy go hand in hand, but what about so called white collar crime such as fraud? Tax evasion? Managers/Directors driving home after a boozy lunch? There is also the argument that more wealthy people can afford better representation in court and thus conviction rates are lower. Perpetuating the perception that poverty = criminality.

    Poverty I would say, predisposes people to certain types of crime, much the same as relative wealth predisposes people to other types of crime.

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    anagallis_arvensis – Member
    "It isn't shite. If you're not prepared to support your children you're less than a man."
    It is now go and read what skidartist wrote and try and engage a brain cell or two.

    You'd better explain to me why what I have said is shite in detail, obviously my brain cell isn't big enough.

    I'm sorry if my comments don't fit with your theories, but they are based on our experiences as teenage parents.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Wot coffeeking said.

    Also – poor people are not, by and large, poor by accident. On the whole they are people who made bad decisions at some point. Maybe the consequence of those decisions is out of proportion, but it's the way it happens. People who make bad decisions are more likely to be unable to figure out that throwing a brick at a cyclist is not likely to lead to a positive outcome, in the long run.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    You'd better explain to me why what I have said is shite in detail, obviously my brain cell isn't big enough.

    I'm sorry if my comments don't fit with your theories, but they are based on our experiences as teenage parents

    Because people at the bottom end of the socio-economic scale do not consider the need to pay for anything as they dont have any money apart from government hand outs and these are available for babies.

    toomanybikes
    Free Member

    i find myself agreeing with epicyclo, he had kids as a teenager, stuck with his girlfriend, provided for them, if every young lad who knocked-up his girlfriend had his attitude it would be great, and he is right, if you have kids then runaway and don't support them, you're no man, no matter what age you are, too many people don't stand up to their responsibilities, just expect the state to keep bailing them out, time after time.

    There probably is girls out there who do get pregnant on purpose and go out to trap a young lad, telling them they're on the pill, but, it's very simple, use something, don't believe them, take precautions yourself, you don't even have to pay for them now.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    i find myself agreeing with epicyclo, he had kids as a teenager, stuck with his girlfriend, provided for them, if every young lad who knocked-up his girlfriend had his attitude it would be great, and he is right, if you have kids then runaway and don't support them, you're no man, no matter what age you

    I don t disagree with that, all makes sense. What I dont agree with is that making young people take financial responsibility for kids will not help as those kids having the vast majority of the kids have no money anyway, thats why raising ambition is IMO the only worthwhile approach to take.

    toomanybikes
    Free Member

    I think we'll have to disagree on this one, kids have to learn a level of responsibility, even at a young age, they have to take responsibilty for their actions otherwise they'll never learn, you can't keep bailing people out of their mistakes, or they'll just keep making them knowing there will be no repercussions, and having got two boys, 19 and 21, they certainly need to learn some responsibilty.

    skidartist
    Free Member

    I'm not disagreeing with any notions of personal responsibility, for anyone. Nor would I say its absent within poorer communities – nor is it absent within families that had their children young as Epicyclo demonstrates. Even in the circumstances where young families break down I don't think the teen father is unaware of the gravity of the situation or the role they should play, but an unhappy relationship isn't good for any of the three of them. But while the overall concern is that a teen pregnancy can compromise the future of both the parent and the child (or are we still convinced they're all money grubbing scroungers?) it isn't the case that it always will.

    Epicyclo is still with his childhood sweetheart, who else can say that? (And stalking people of facebook doesn't count) He'll celebrate his 80th Aniversary one day and it'll be in the papers! (I remember a 90-something year old couple on the news celebrating their 80th, asked what the secret of a long and loving relationship was the guy said its all down to two magic little words ; "Yes Dear")

    Anyway its not wrong to say personal responsibiltity is important, or education, or fairer or crueler benefit system or any number of other things are important. But thats all things that other people should do. The issue is bigger than education, or tax and its bigger than government, the government has so little it can do to effect how people feel. Its about what I can do. Me myself. I don't actually know what I can actually do though. I can at least look and think and care.

    "Reality, as it evolves, sweeps me with it. I'm struck by everything and, though not everything strikes me in the same way, I am always struck by the same basic contradiction: although I can always see how beautiful anything could be if only I could change it, in practically every case there is nothing I can really do. Everything is changed into something else in my imagination, then the dead weight of things changes it back into what it was in the first place. A bridge between imagination and reality must be built."

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    anagallis_arvensis – Member
    …What I dont agree with is that making young people take financial responsibility for kids will not help as those kids having the vast majority of the kids have no money anyway…

    You can't make them take responsibility.

    But they will take it if you have raised your kids to be decent humans. The rule of only dipping your wick in keepers is a good one. The rule of paying your way is another.

    As for money. We had none. Often we faced the choice of eating or heating the place. I could get only casual jobs. We never got or sought any money from the government. I made a bit extra by buying and repairing bikes but wasn't commercial enough to make a business out of it because my customers tended to be as poor as us.

    But we didn't have it as bad as the single mothers – at least one of us could go out and make some money. The poverty hell some of those girls go through because some rat doesn't pull his weight has coloured my attitude to "men" who don't stand by their kids. Those guys are real parasites. Condemn them, not the victims.

    The best thing I ever did was emigrate to Australia. Boy, did life improve!

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    But they will take it if you have raised your kids to be decent humans.

    Whilst I wouldnt use the word "decent" thats the root of the problem isnt it. Finances are only part of it the main point is ambition. I was bought up by a single mother on a council estate but I was given ambition. Many other kids arent as lucky, espsecially when generations of unemployed/poorly paid are involved. If your ambitions are low your more liekly to accept having a baby at a young age with a father who isnt able to support it.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    @skidartist:

    Nice quote. To save other interested people the trouble of google'ing:
    http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/display/213

    AndyP
    Free Member

    Polonium in the Rotherham drinking water supply = 50% of UK teenage pregnancies sorted.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    who else can say that?

    I, also.

Viewing 14 posts - 81 through 94 (of 94 total)

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