Our reputation? do you see the whole world like this? Some blokes like pissing in street, so in your view this tarnishes all men? some car drivers drive badly, so by repute…All car drivers are bad? Some individuals who happen to be riding bicycles sometimes choose to break the law…Get involved at a level where you'd see any other private citizen breaking the law…

You're dead right, it's ridiculous, but nevertheless drivers (i.e. the majority of the adult population) do seem to treat all cyclists (or members of other minority groups) as the same person. It would be nice if they didn't, but they do.

I've never bothered remonstrating with any RLJers mainly because I can't imagine anyone is ever going to seriously reconsider their actions in the light of someone shouting at them in the street- and that goes for drivers as well as cyclists.

And as for this stuff about jumping lights 'cos it's safer to get away ahead of the traffic, I don't get how this works. It's going to pass you either just after the lights change or 100m down the road, so what's the difference? Unless you've wedged yourself in a crap position by filtering up to the lights, and why would you do that?

I was upset because it illustrates the deep divide between professional drivers and bike riders.

There's your mistake Karin you mistook a taxi driver as a professional 😀

here you go, i made you puritans a tshirt:

🙂

theflatboy – Member

Karinofnine – Member

Yeah, I feel like that when I'm driving my car, next time I'm at a red I think I'll just drive straight on down that 'empty road in front of me'…

"i'd do that too in safe circumstances if i didn't have that annoying number plate attached to it… it's also a lot harder in car, due to size etc."

I was being sarcastic. However, frustrating it is to sit there at a light-controlled pedestrian crossing with no pedestrians on it, I still sit there.

Anyway, I'm off to do some shoplifting now as it seems from on here that you can just pick and choose which laws you want to break. See ya!

mind your own business and enjoy your riding!

Really you have no concept of how much RLJing cyclists cheese off drivers and how much that rubs off on law-abiding cyclists do you? Head in the f*cking sand, what a moron.

get a **** life coffeeking!!!! you sad miserable old with nothing else to do tw*t!!!

@ Mr Salmon – I think the idea is that its safer to get past the traffic islands and other road furniture that may constrict the carriageway first rather than reach it just as the first/second car wishes to push past.

I know two wrongs don't make a right, but most minor traffic rules are ignored by most people some of the time.

Much has been said about how annoyed (jealous??) car drivers get when bikers jump reds. Nothing about how annoying it is when car drivers fill advance stop boxes, or overtake and then turn left, or half-overtake and then slide back left – to the point when sometimes I have had to tap on the car window to remind them I'm still using the bit of road I have always been occupying.

Also, where I ride there's cycle tracks shared with pedestrians – lunacy! They walk three abreast with Ipods in and get p*ssed off if I ring my bell.

Really what is needed is a review of the law to clarify the position, rights and responsibilities of bike riders.

Lifes too short. We arent a club, or inclusive. We happen to share the same mode of transport.

karin – i respect your position and decision though i'm not sure your analogy with shoplifting is quite reasonable.

i am struggling to think of a more victimless trasngression than safely running a red light.

takes 6-10 minutes to get through one 100 yard stretch of the Euston Road on my commute if I wait for green, and it's more dangerous because I'm exposed to being rear-ended by motorcyclists etc.

so there's no question – waiting for green in all circumstances, for reasons of principle, is not a viable option. at least if you ride every day, on a fairly long commute through the most congested parts of London, at the height of rush hour. anyone in my shoes can see that this is blindingly obvious, a matter of objective fact indeed.

that said, I do have a policy of making a strong presumption that if a light is red, it's not safe for me to go. I always assume I have to stop and decelerate until I can see that the coast is clear. Probably 60% of red lights I encounter are safe to run and therefore I run them.

I've commuted by bike in central London every day now, plus most weekend days, plus a stint as a courier, and working in a bike shop, for 5 years, anyone with more and better experience is more than welcome to explain to me why I should always wait at reds as a matter of principle, but my view is that it's not a principles issue, it's simply safer, smoother and faster to deal with them on a case by case basis

can't really add to that, may copy and save that for future use. 🙂

Agree, not a brilliant analogy, although the both break the law.

I can only repeat that, if we want the sentencing disparity between drivers who kill cyclists and cyclists who kill pedestrians to be addressed, one of the things that must be done is to legitimise cycling as a form of transport.

Some drivers get very angry when cyclists run red lights. Those drivers take out their anger on the next cyclist they see – so it isn't victimless.

Why not get a job enforcing adherance to zebra and pelican crossings? Think of the fulfilment, job satisfaction and money that you could get. It would be much better than riding your bike around town as a vigilante red light enforcer.

get a **** life coffeeking!!!! you sad miserable old with nothing else to do tw*t!!!

😉 not sad, miserable or old, and have plenty to do. Or in fact a ****. I just am aware of the impact my actions have on others and have a level of maturity greater than that of a 12 year old, unlike you it seems. Are you really that childish?

So take out your anger on them in return, if you're ever on the receiving end of such behaviour? I run reds a LOT and often later get passed by the people I ran it in front of. I rarely if ever get trouble in these situations, most drivers seem to be indifferent to it. The ones that aren't are the ones who drive abusively anyway – you shouldn't try to mollify or persuade these types to respect cyclists, it doesn't work that way. You have to adjust the cost/benefit balance of them abusing you – they won't stop abusing cyclists for their health, they have to be deterred from doing so by a belief that it's not worth the aggro – so attack attack attack if you get any trouble!

I think there's an implicit assumption in your comments that riders who run red lights are somehow responsible for the abusive drivers. This isn't the case, the drivers are the aggressors in this situation – they're the ones you should focus your ire on. The riders who run red lights are simply responding rationally to their environment, more often than not. The idea of stopping at every red is madness, at least on my commute!

There's a pretty simple answer to this – They are choosing to commit a road traffic offence.

The only people allowed to enforce road traffic statute are policemen and a few other select parties. Not I'd guess, you.

Ergo. Shut up unless you're warranted.

get a **** life coffeeking!!!! you sad miserable old with nothing else to do tw*t!!!

Qualitage! 😆

I must have jumped ooh, at least a couple of dozen red lights last night. It was past midnight, and there was hardly anyone else on the roads. Seemed a bit silly to dutifully wait until every single light turned to green…

Depends on the situation. Sometimes, it's ok, other times it's not. Yeah there's the Law blah blah, but a cyclist jumping the odd red light if it's perfectly safe to do so, is hardly akin to the crimes of Peter Sutcliffe.

Fred, you're yet another case of it.

What, a serial rapist murderer? That's a bit much isn't it?

🙁

You jumped to that one, not me! I just said you're taking the 12 year olds viewpoint.

DT78 – Member

Interestingly in the states you can drive through a red light if you're turning right and not crossing traffic.

It actually makes a hell of alot of sense and would speed things up quite alot.

That confused the hell out of me in chicago .. you're trying to cross the road beside a crossroads and some car is edging/nudging through the mass of pedestrians 😯

On topic .. jumping reds in london on a bike is de-rigeur, but in our defense (london cycle commuters) there are a lot of them! You can only jump the odd pedestrian crossing though.. No point jumping junctions or you'll end up dead (as many do)

I think the practice of jumping reds in london was perpetuated by the original courier crowd, who literally lost money waiting around. As cycling in london has increased, that practice has been sadly adopted.. especially by fixie riding fakengers

I just said you're taking the 12 year olds viewpoint.

Rather be a child than a sad, sanctimonious old codger… 😀

Or maybe we should all ignore all laws? Let's do that, shall we? Exceed the speed limit, park where you like, jump red lights, drive in cycle lanes, drive the wrong way up one way streets.

That's my ideal world Karinofnine… why do we need laws and what not when we all know (in our particular society) what's morally & ethically wrong anyway? Trust us (as a society and community) to make the right decisions that we all agree with, who needs a regulatory framework to enforce it all?

**** the government I say!

why be a servant to the law when you can be its master! jumping a red light! wow wee! its peadophiles and traffic wardens that really **** rile me! get into the real **** world coffeeker you sad daft bastard! you've obviously lived your life modecodled and blind to the REAL world, thats the f#*king trouble with this country, people like you! lets act on REAL crime thats happening not somebody jumping a **** red light!!!!

My, this just gets better! 😀

Don't hold back eh, shaggmeister!

What really pisses me off is the C*cks who when confronted with the redlight/green man situation they get OFF their bikesand walk across the junction only to get back on at the other side and continue on their way.

You're just doing the same as everyone else and jumping the light, so why do it in such an utterly ridiculously pedantic way to stay "legal". If you want to jump it just jump it. C*ck

Could someone please explain their reasoning behind obeying the road laws in busy traffic being more dangerous than jumping red lights in the same conditions?

Red light jumpers should be taken away and shot by the side of the road, then their entrails burned and their heads stuck on a spike.
Utterly selfish tossers scaring responsible road users half to death.

Imagine how you'd feel if you hit one of these self righteous law breaking rebels of the highway, whilst happily driving about obeying the rules of the road?

Not clever, not special, not edgy, daring, rebellious or cool.

No one watches you and thinks, 'Hey, I wish I was as cool as that!'
They just think 'What a selfish knobster, why can't he wait like everyone else?' and it makes non cyclists hate us all the more.

IMO, red light jumpers are lower than than:

People who use the word 'out' after the word 'swap'.

People who put their feet on seats whilst travelling on public transport.

People who drop litter.

Range Rover Sport owners.

People who say 'Can I get?' instead of 'Can I have?'.

People who voted Liberal Democrat expecting Nick Clegg to be any different to the other vertical piles of manure inhabiting Parliament.

And you can't get much lower than that 🙂

People who say 'Can I get?' instead of 'Can I have?'.

😆 my pet hate too 😆

I run the odd red light on my way to work on earlies. at 5.15 in the morning though there aren't many other road users about. do I deserve to be shot too?

People who use the word 'out' after the word 'swap'.
People who say 'Can I get?' instead of 'Can I have?'.

Both quite legitimate linguistic evolutions. The habit of some people to sporadically extend nouns with "ster", however; that's pretty indefensible 🙂

Both quite legitimate linguistic evolutions.

Evolution maybe, but and linguistically unnecessary and offensive.
Hopefully an evolutionary dead-end, just like the people who use them. 😀

'Knobster', well, it always makes me laugh!
Defined in the Urban Dictionary as a 'Demented internet tail wagging imbicile'.
How can you not love that?

new traffic island here is programmed for all lights to be on red until traffic sensors show vehicles approaching – ie stays red if there are no cars on the road – but sensors aren't tweaked for bicycles 👿

Timely post just this morning on another (car-oriented) forum I frequent…

"Alternating black and white rectangle markings on the road and flashing orange lights mean it's a zebra crossing and if anyone is on it when you are some way away it means you should stop, [Censored] wit, not aim yourself at the person using it, you lycra-clad [Censored] resembling the unused condom in John Merrick's wallet. That's right, you don't look like you've broken away from the peloton, although you're probably on similar chemicals.

Perhaps next time instead of calling you a [Censored] to your ear I'll take defensive action and kick you into the road, only you'll probably live because unlike your eco-mentalist mates (and if we're trading carbon, making a bike takes up a shit-load more than it does for a pedestrian, shit for brains), drivers tend to read a book containing all the rules (reading, there's a tough gig, eh Thunder [Censored] ?) and will be stopping before they hit you, more's the pity."

Proving the rule that there are two sides to every argument.

That is class.

why be a servant to the law when you can be its master! jumping a red light! wow wee! its peadophiles and traffic wardens that really **** rile me! get into the real **** world coffeeker you sad daft bastard! you've obviously lived your life modecodled and blind to the REAL world, thats the f#*king trouble with this country, people like you! lets act on REAL crime thats happening not somebody jumping a **** red light!!!!

Oh dear, that would be an answer to my question then. You are in fact a kid off school. Not sure why I bothered to bite with such a troll.

Incidentally I was witness to a cyclist RLJ accident this morning in Glasgow city centre, a cyclist cruised up to a ped crossing red light and decided that he had no reason to stop as there was no-one making a move toward the crossing. Unfortunately a pedestrian couple spotted the green man and decided to make a dash for it while they had the right of way and traffic (me) was stopped. Cyclist meets pedestrian, fortunately only the one, bloke was very scraped and not a happy chap. Well done idiot cyclist, worth saving those extra few seconds for, good job it wasn't the guys pregnant partner who was a fraction of a second behind him. Cyclist and man exchanged words, and I nearly laughed out loud when the cyclist said "sorry mate, I didn't see you".

new traffic island here is programmed for all lights to be on red until traffic sensors show vehicles approaching – ie stays red if there are no cars on the road – but sensors aren't tweaked for bicycles

Inform the council, they should be sufficienty sensitive if you ride in the right location.

Some really arrogant, mis-guided and downright selfish views being expressed on this thread.

And the aggressive personal attacks on those that don't agree with jumping lights really does confirm what we think of you all…

Tsk. I think some people are missing something here…

RLJing at busy times, with lots of other traffic around, pedestrians etc, is stupid and potentially dangerous. At quieter times, or when there's no other traffic around/risk to others, then it's down to a bit of sensible discretion, surely?

In my case above, had I stopped at every single red light, my journey would have been much longer. There was simply no need to stop at every one. Most of them were pedestrian crossings; it was gone midnight and there was hardly anyone about. There was absolutely no risk to anyone, so I just rode on through.

Coffeeboy; when you've stopped being so sanctimonious; have you never driven over the NSL? 🙄

Come on, use a bit of common sense ffs…

Sit at red lights, ignore other cyclists or drivers who go through.
Run on paving and jump back on the other side if late.