He isn't even wearing a helmet. Some people are just reckless.

LOL!

Seems to me that this thread is made up of a lot of RLJers trying to justify their unjustifiable actions.

Look, if you want to jump red lights then fine, you're going to do it regardless, but I wouldn't waste my time trying to justify my selfish actions on an internet forum. Pointless.

Classic forum-time-waste-high-horse post, and in itself, just as pointless as everything else on this thread.

RLJers are narrow minded idiots with no understanding of the dangers they pose to others.

Agreed – makes me mad too..

And the self indulgent, I'll do what I like / has no impact on anyone else / mind your own business comments that are always wheeled out to justify the behaviour makes me even madder… Not because I’m a self righteous nob, but because they are the views of the utterly selfish and irresponsible.

RLJing is illegal and winds up other road users – I know I commute regularly, and am regularly subject to verbal abuse and worse from drivers…

The argument that it doesn’t impact anyone else is utter nonsense – as subjective and self-justifying as your decision to jump the light in the first place. Three recent incidents come to my mind:

1, similar to the post above, as a car driver, I was nearly involved in a crash at a junction where a cyclist jumped the lights and other traffic had to take avoiding action.

2, as a cyclist turning right through a TL junction, a loon on a bike jumping the lights forced me to take avoiding action – action that forced me to change my line into the path of a bus. For once the bus driver was paying attention and didn’t hit me…

and 3, as a pedestrian, I had to jump out of the way of an RLJ cyclist, whilst crossing the road. As a fit and agile mtber I could do that, but the middle / older aged woman who was also crossing at the same time had a very close shave.

To anyone with any common sense, what I have described above should present a pretty clear picture of selfish disregard for anyone but themselves.

And this morning I saw a Warburton's truck and a bus both run red lights at about 9.30 when the roads were pretty busy.

The bus ran the red light after the right turn filter had come on for me.

I don't think cyclists running red lights is the worst thing in the world, and if someone could tell me how, in real terms, running a red light slowly and going across the crossroads is any more dangerous than walking on a red man I would stop laughing at the ridiculousness of this thread which was in all likelyhood started as a troll.

Agreed – makes me mad too..

And the self indulgent, I'll do what I like / has no impact on anyone else / mind your own business comments that are always wheeled out to justify the behaviour makes me even madder… Not because I’m a self righteous nob, but because they are the views of the utterly selfish and irresponsible.

RLJing is illegal and winds up other road users – I know I commute regularly, and am regularly subject to verbal abuse and worse from drivers…

The argument that it doesn’t impact anyone else is utter nonsense – as subjective and self-justifying as your decision to jump the light in the first place. Three recent incidents come to my mind:

1, similar to the post above, as a car driver, I was nearly involved in a crash at a junction where a cyclist jumped the lights and other traffic had to take avoiding action.

2, as a cyclist turning right through a TL junction, a loon on a bike jumping the lights forced me to take avoiding action – action that forced me to change my line into the path of a bus. For once the bus driver was paying attention and didn’t hit me…

and 3, as a pedestrian, I had to jump out of the way of an RLJ cyclist, whilst crossing the road. As a fit and agile mtber I could do that, but the middle / older aged woman who was also crossing at the same time had a very close shave.

To anyone with any common sense, what I have described above should present a pretty clear picture of selfish disregard for anyone but themselves.

Ahh, diddums.

Just for you I'm going to make sure I jump some lights on my way home. And ride on the pavement.

Just for the record, I'm not even attemping to justify it. I know it wrong, thanks, I know it's possibly dangerous, and I'm GLAD it annoys people.

Not everyone who jumps lights runs over old ladies though do they. Maybe they are extra careful to look around them before they cross, given the situation.

Next you'll be saying all black people are reckless cyclists because the man in the Bran Flakes ad tries to goad Chris Hoy into a winner-takes-all street race.

Firstly I can assure you that my original post was not a troll.

So what's your point on 2 cars running red light? I assume you think that isn't a problem as if it's acceptable to do it on a bike then why not in a vehicle.

I didn't say cyclists running red lights is the worst thing in the world and whilst it may not be any more dangerous than walking on a red man that isn't quite the point of my post.

Just for the record, I'm not even attemping to justify it. I know it wrong, thanks, I know it's possibly dangerous, and I'm GLAD it annoys peopl How grown up of you.

There are clear circumstance where going thru the lights on red is SAFER due to poor road design!

Under these circumstances I go thru the red light. Slowly, when the road is clear of cars and pedestrians. I will not compromise my safety.

We had this debate a while ago and several good example of this were given.

I understand that TJ, as I said in my original post. This mornings rlj wasn't one of those circumstances. Not mega busy junction, ASL, straight road, easy to negotiate junction. It was done purely becuase he couldn't be bothered stopping.

Don't bother BlackDog – you wont change anybody's mind and you'll just get wound up. I had a few of these posts recently and you'll always get people thinking that bending the law is OK as long as you 'don't get caught' or 'what halm' will it to or I've been doing this fox x years. You've made your point just give up IMO. I bet they would be all embarrassed / ashamed if the long arm of the law caught them as they would with a speeding fine in the car what ever they might say here in this relatively annonymous arena!

Fair enough BlackDog – I have no timne for those type of red light jumpers either – I don't go thru red lights for my convenience – only for my safety.

I was really answering a couple of points above who would not accept that there are circumstances where going thru the red light is safer than getting tangled up with cars by waiting for the green.

Points such as this drivel

RLJers are narrow minded idiots with no understanding of the dangers they pose to others.

We had this debate a while ago and several good example of this were given.

Example please of this poor road design?

In the meantime, if you feel there's a section of road that's hazardous, adopt the primary position and navigate it sensibly. I encounter every conceivable road hazard on my commute, yet I don't feel the need to beat the traffic away from the lights. Sensible, confident cycling with awareness of surrounding traffic will be just fine.

I know of a narrow bridge with lights on all 3 junctions

Here

Where it's impossible to cycle across the bridge between your light going green & the other side going green
As it's narrow the traffic coming at you can't do much either

I can recall going through a phase of being angry about people jumping lights. Then I decided I didn't care and it was their problem and not mine. I've been so much happier since. 🙂

Agreed BoardinBob. Thats the stance I take, however I can to a certain extent understand where tj is coming from though I've yet to come across such a situation.

Not wound up at all foxyrider and I realise that it's an impossible task – those that jump red lights will keep on doing so.

Then I decided I didn't care and it was their problem and not mine. I've been so much happier since. It really affected you that badly, jeez you must struggle to get by day to day.

I saw someone on a bike jump a red light and ended up flying over the bonnet of a car. Served the muppet right. I had a small chortle to myself and carried on walking.

I saw somebody get knocked down once, it was f*cking hilarious

Boarding bob. One – a traffic light junction where about 100m after the junction the road narrows from nearly 2 cars each way to barely one car each way as it curves left. Another 100 m on there is a traffic light junction where I turn right. There is an ASL.

If I wait for the green even adopting a position well out from the curb the cars catch up just at the pinch point and try to overtake. As the road before the pinch point is very wide even riding 2+ m from the curb gives the cars room to start their overtake but they cannot complete it before the pinch – and I block cars from overtaking. there is often a car parked at the pinch point as well.

Then I have a line of cars overtaking me after the pinch point ( the road has now widened to 3 cars wide – left filter lane, straight on and right filter lane) Due to the line of cars overtaking and braking for the next junction I cannot get easily out to the centre of the turn right lane.

If I set off 20 seconds early – on the green man but after the peds have crossed I reach the right turn lane at the second junction before the cars have caught up with me. Much safer.

Pinch point here Heading west to east

2nd – cycle lane joining a one way road at a traffic light controlled junction – there is traffic comeing from my right and from my left . The green for the cycle lane is at the same time as the traffic from my right. If I wait for the green I get trapped against a bollard by cars moving from the lane on my right to the left turn lane that I want to be in. I cannot adopt a centre road position as the design of the junction means that the car is alongside me as we start. There are usually parked cars blocking the right hand lane. again starting a few seconds early means that I am infront of the cars and thus can adopt the middle of the lane blocking position

Here – the cycle lane comes across the park from the south. I am heading north

Streetmaps pish, fire them into Google Maps and lets see the streetview

first one ( if this works) heading straight on from the point I have taken.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=edinburgh+commercial+street&sll=55.950176,-3.187536&sspn=0.266816,0.837021&g=edinburgh&ie=UTF8&ll=55.97644,-3.170414&spn=0.008332,0.026157&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=55.976403,-3.170242&panoid=iC2d0mUR2h9T2GtDq4TWSA&cbp=12,124.7,,0,5

Second one

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=edinburgh+bristo+place&sll=55.976404,-3.170242&sspn=0.008332,0.026157&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=55.945337,-3.191075&panoid=oO9q7uUVicPVjQrXbLlDrA&cbp=12,355.16,,0,5

Dunno why I bother tho – I very much doubt you will agree with me even tho the first one is outside my house and the second I use often.

I don't always do it – it depends on the traffic conditions

Just catching up…

PeterPoddy – Member
That's a rather sweeping statement, to say it's based on such little knowledge….

I have all the knowledge I need, there are virtually no instances where RLJing is safe. Assuming you can flout the rules and still be safe and only risk yourself is narrow minded and stupid. Claiming it is for your own safety – slightly odd, if the junction is that dangerous to navigate on a bike, get off and cross on foot at the crossings/up the road a little, dont break the law and cheese off/endanger others because you cant be bothered getting off or slowing down. Its purely laziness.

Shandy – Member
RLJers who don't look around them you mean?

No, any of them. Anyone can make a mistake, red lights are there to stop you making mistakes that impact others. I could run red lights in my fast car, its fairly small, **** quick and very nimble, but doing so would be illegal and dangerous, just as it is on a bike.

Shandy – Member
And are your tyres made of plasticene? What speed were you doing you hooligan?!

No, my tyres are not plasticine and I was doing ~35 through a 40 zone in dry weather. Its fairly easy to scrub flat spots in car tyres with even a small skid.

Just catching up too…

red lights are there to stop you making mistakes that impact others.

Just not true. Red lights are appearing in places where they never used to be, generally to facilitate traffic flow at busy times, when traffic joining a road is heavy. T-junctions and now, irritatingly, roundabouts appear to have lights springing up all the time on them for this very reason.

Traffic lights on relatively minor roundabouts are a pet hate of mine, especially when it's quiet and the lights aren't part-time. This leads me on to:there are virtually no instances where RLJing is safe. Bollocks. There are several roundabouts close to home I cycle acros. Big roundabouts, good visibility and as we know, traffic only coming from your right. On an evening, the road is very quiet but the lights are still turned on. Are you telling me that you think I'm irresponsible to RLJ at these lights when I can clearly see there are NO other road users close to me, when I can clearly see there's nothing coming? Really?

And there are a lot of junctions around my way like this too…

EDIT: In case I haven't said this already, I don't jump every light. In fact, on balance, I probably stop at the vast majority. I'm just staggered on this thread that people can't accept that sometimes getting away while the lights on red before the rest of the traffic isn't a good idea when it's clearly safer to do so. I'm equally staggered that in situations when there is nobody around and the red light is pretty pointless, like I've described above, people on here are so well behaved that they'll stop and wait.

I'm guessing those people use a lot of coasters and doilies at home…

so what other vehicles do you think should be able to RLJ?

Horses? or maybe Bernie Clifton?

Had to chortle when two RLJ'ers came blasting through red lights/ green man and nearly hit me last night

iamtheresurrection – sure the lights may be there for another reason, but their presence and the green light to the other side gives THEM priority and means they will not be expecting anyone to be coming through, putting you legally and morally in the wrong. If you can't see any other vehicles, sure it can be annoying and I can see your point when that happens (theres a crossroads on my way home that is timed and has 100 yards visibility in all directions) but where do you draw the line?

"I can clearly see 100 yards in all directions"
"I can clearly see 30 yards in all directions"
"I could see and its rare for cars to come through at night"
"I can hear it's clear"
"I can dodge cars, im small and nimble"

? Just dont run reds and there's no questions asked. Why should a motorist have to pay for car repairs because you made a mistake and went through a red in their path? It does happen, regularly. When questioned I'm sure the cyclists who get hit or almost get hit claim the same …. " i can see" bla bla bla, but come to the crunch, if someone tried to get them to pay for body damage to the car after they were hit, or if someone swerved to avoid them and took out a passing pregnant lady, would the cyclist feel guilty? I doubt it. RLJers generally seem to be oblivious to the danger they cause, and will argue to the death that they are in fact not causing danger and they only do it when its safe.

Coffeeking – o this and on the previous thread several of us gave example where it is perfectly safe to RLJ but dangerous to wait for the green.

If you happen not to believe this is so then thats your choice. The second example I gave above is as clear an example of this as you can have. You can see all possible traffic heading to the junction, if you go before the green then you are infront of cars, if you wait for the green you end up alongside a car / in its blind spot on the left hand side exactly where they want to change lanes to the left.

Poor road design

TJ – same question as I [jokingly] posted above

What other road users do you think would be OK to RLJ [if it's safe 😉 ]?

Pedestrians.

I will not compromise my safety. If I have a choice between compromising my safety and breaking the road traffic law I break the law.

I do not RLJ for my convenience nor to save me stopping. I do it when it is the safest course of action

Pedestrians.

What about those really slow mopeds that can't accelerate anywhere near as quick as a bicycle?
D'you think they'd be OK?

Coffeeking. You've went from empathy with my post to asking how I pay for a car I hit…

This thread is full of sweeping generalisations (rare for STW, I know). In terms of issuing guidance as to what's safe, you can't. And nor do I want to.

I'm just saying that I jump red lights when I know (not think) it's safe to do so. I'm a reasonably bright bloke, and I refuse to hear from anyone on this thread that I'm not bright enough to know safe from dangerous, or reasonable or unreasonable.

You know, you're allowed to defend yourself with reasonable force. Bugger, how do you define reasonable? How about, in any given situation you use your nuggin?

this cross roads in edinburgh
(if it works)
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=rodney+st+edinburgh&sll=54.154329,-4.480058&sspn=0.129477,0.352936&ie=UTF8&ll=55.962372,-3.196871&spn=0.001934,0.005515&t=h&z=18

is a one way along eyre place (from broughton st) but with a cycling lane allowed against the one way flow.
all cars sat at that set of lights (on broughton st) turn left across you. its hardly good for you to move off as a cyclist when the light turns green. you end up with a horn in your ear, and getting shouted at despite being in the right. and having the right of way.

ergo, it makes more sense to go on a red light/green man.