OK, I really didn’t mean to call you lot loons 😀

Is there a forum for recumbents and how much would a SH starter one cost me? I guess they may not change hands that much.

I guess I need to find out what I want – the guy at Edinburgh’s Laid Back Bikes has offered me some test rides (me being in the trade). The idea of being low-slung appeals (see Speedies) but in truth I have no idea how much I would use one or even what for.

Have a look at the Velovision website for starters – http://www.velovision.co.uk

I’ve also got some demo ones here in Glasgow if you want a go on one – no second-hand at the moment, unless you want a £4k electric velomobile. Older second-hand recumbents sometimes crop up for around the £500 mark – something more modern would be £1000ish.

There’s more variation in recumbents than there is in all other bikes put together, so it’s definitely a good idea to try a bunch of different ones.

cheers Ben, perfect.

NOOOOOOOOO, My wife thinks they’re silly, you wouldn’t want her to think you’re sill would you?

What’s the appeal, apart from being more comfortable?

there’s got to be lots of spoon based bodging opportunity;

What’s the appeal, apart from being more comfortable?

They’re also faster – sometimes a lot faster.

eyerideit, are you scared of things that are different?

What’s the appeal, apart from being more comfortable?
They’re also faster – sometimes a lot faster.

Slower uphill?
Cycled with a guy who had toured America on one. Lovely bike but he slowed on the hills.
Another local guy has one due to bad arthritis preventing him from riding normal bikes, he also says hills are more difficult.

i like the speed trike recumbents – often through about tacking one up with my welder – then i realise it will stay in the garage as theres no danger ill be riding on the road with it.

In holland on their dedicated cycle paths complete enclosed recumbents were a common sight.

in sydney the guy running the hostel used to come into work on a speed trike – asked him about it. Said it was temporary till he could get back on the open road but saved him buying another bike but he felt really exposed on the city streets

I rode a StreetMachine recumbent (sold to me by Ben) for a couple of years (including an End-to-End trip in 2000) then a Windcheetah trike for another couple. Both were fun and I recon everybody should give a recumbent a serious trial at some point.

Not sure if Kevin Dunseath is still running D.Tek recumbents down in Cambridgeshire, but he used to have a veritable Aladdin’s cave of second hand recumbents, which he would sell if you really insisted 🙂 The contact details I have for him are:

D.Tek – CAMBRIDGESHIRE
Main Street
Little Thetford
Cambridgeshire
CB6 1BR
Tel: 01353 648177
dtekhpvs@btconnect.com

But, Ben can sort you out and is a lot closer.

eyerideit, are you scared of things that are different?

Not me,

My wife thinks they’re silly

Personally I’d like a go on one, but don’t really see the attraction. Probably because I’ve not tried one. Hell, I didn’t have disc brakes until 3 years ago and now I can’t get enough of the buggers.

For touring they’d be a ‘nice’ way of getting around, bit like having a mobile armchair.

Slower uphill?

Depends on a bunch of things – not least of which is how your muscles adapt to recumbents. The main reasons they can be slower are that your muscles haven’t adapted (you use different muscle groups on a recumbent) and that they can be heavier.

Biomechanically, they’re better – you’re not hunched over, you’re pushing directly with your legs against a solid back support, not pulling with your arms and down through your curved spine. You can also breathe more easily as your chest isn’t constricted.

Something like a StreetMachine will never be that fast uphill – it’s a full-suspension touring bike. But something like my old Speed Ross (which weighs about 22lbs) climbs faster than any other bike I’ve tried.

I’ve lost more blood riding recumbents for brief rides than in my entire cycling career. Really a case of ambition exceeding talent. 🙂

But they’re great.

Always fancied a Greenspeed. Maybe one day.

They’re also faster

Not all of them.. I went on a ride on a two wheeler high rider thing, which was almost impossible to ride, and incredibly slow. Typical speed 12mph, flat out sprint 15mph. In 10 miles I hurt my back so badly it took 3 days to recover.

Admittedly, they are not all this bad 🙂

Biomechanically, they’re better

I’d dispute that.

I’d dispute that.

What on earth were you riding?! 😉

I don’t doubt that you can find a recumbent which fits you so badly you injure yourself – but various studies have shown that for most normal people the recumbent riding position is comfier and better.

Would you voluntarily sit on a bike saddle when you weren’t on a bike?

Beards are a must.

Define ‘normal people’ ?

Were these studies for serious cyclists or the general public? In general terms, this ‘hunched over’ position we all ride in is generally considered faster than being upright, isn’t it? Better for power delivery? Hence the flat-backed position of XC race bikes versus the more upright stance of trail bikes.

Of course, you can get out of the saddle on a normal bike ..

Define ‘normal people’ ?

People who aren’t you 😀

In general terms, this ‘hunched over’ position we all ride in is generally considered faster than being upright, isn’t it?

For aerodynamics, yes – if you want to ride a diamond-frame bike and you want to be fast, you need to hunch over. But hunching over restricts your breathing, curves your spine, and crushes your delicate bits against the saddle. It’s certainly not better for you.

This is why recumbents win – they’re more aerodynamic while at the same time being more comfortable. It’s not a trade-off.

Of course, you can get out of the saddle on a normal bike

You can – and that stops your bits going numb. But better to have a seat that doesn’t make your bits go numb in the first place 😉

If you don’t know much about recumbents it’s often worth thinking about how your non cycling friends and family view cycling. Many of your misconceptions about recembents will be he same ones that they have about cycling in general i.e. that all bikes are basically the same, that it’s dangerous etc.

My StreetMachine recumbent was certainly slower uphill than my road bike. But, as Ben pointed out, it’s a full suspension tourer. My full suss MTB is also a lot slower uphill that my road bike, but few cyclists would be surprised by that. In fact, if I put slicks on it my 30lb full suss MTB would probably be about the same speed as that 30lb full suss recumbent. The MTB is, unsurprisingly, the better choice for riding up and down mountains, but the recumbent was the ideal tool for a gentle three week bimble from John O’Groats down to Lands End on Sustrans routes. Fun, very comfortable, easy to admire the view and a constant source of amusement for passers by.

The Windcheetah trike, on the other hand, was just insanely fun and I was also able to use it to commute through an Aberdeenshire winter when my wife was on maternity leave with our second child, which saved us having to buy a second car at a time when funds were tight. Three wheels means no more falling off on the ice 🙂

That’s a very good way of looking at it – the questions are often the same. “How do you balance?” “Is it safe?” “Do cars see you?” “You could buy a car for that!”

For aerodynamics, yes

No, I think it’s for better power transfer.

You can – and that stops your bits going numb.

That’s not the only reason for doing it, not by miles!

The problem with the recumbent debate is that the pro camp are fanbois and think they are the best thing ever far better than those stupid upright bikes us sheep ride. Come into the light, see the future etc etc.

I would also dispute the danger aspect. I can’t see how being lower than a car bonnet is as safe as being higher than one. This, and garage space, are the main reasons I’ve not bought one. I don’t deny they are fun to ride and comfy over long distances.

No, I think it’s for better power transfer.

Nope – Bolt upright, with straight arms is best for power transfer on a diamond frame. Like on an old minister’s roadster. Being hunched over is about aerodynamics.

I would also dispute the danger aspect. I can’t see how being lower than a car bonnet is as safe as being higher than one.

Most two-wheelers aren’t lower than a car bonnet, you’re about eye-level with drivers in a very similar position. Other safety benefits are that you hit things feet-first not head-first, and that being unusual car drivers pay a lot more attention and give you more space.

Most SMIDSYs aren’t down to the driver not seeing the bike, they’re down to the driver not noticing the bike.

The problem with the recumbent debate is that the pro camp are fanbois and think they are the best thing ever far better than those stupid upright bikes us sheep ride. Come into the light, see the future etc etc.

Non cyclists often make the same comment about the rest of us too. It’s hard not to be enthusiastic about something that you really enjoy.

If it’s any help, I no longer ride one, so hardly count as a fanboi. But I still maintain that everyone should try them (properly) at least once.

I would also dispute the danger aspect. I can’t see how being lower than a car bonnet is as safe as being higher than one.

I’m afraid I don’t have the energy to go through this debate yet again, but just because you can’t see something doesn’t stop it being true.

Most SMIDSYs aren’t down to the driver not seeing the bike, they’re down to the driver not noticing the bike.

If I did have the energy 🙂 this is the angle I’d take too. It’s the WTF factor that makes riding a recumbent (or any unusual bike) safer (or at the very least no less safe overall) than a “normal” bike

I’ve been looking for a reason to dislike you al – now I have it. 😉

Other safety benefits are that…

you get to put a floppy flag on your bike and pretend to be a pirate. garrr.

brakes – Member
I’ve been looking for a reason to dislike you al – now I have it

It’s taken you this long? 😉

I’m afraid I don’t have the energy to go through this debate yet again, but just because you can’t see something doesn’t stop it being true.

I could say the exact same thing about you 🙂 So it’s really a non argument.

you’re about eye-level with drivers in a very similar position.

Yeah, and being significantly above driver’s eye level is one of the things I am pretty thankful for when riding in traffic. I would hate to give that up!

The other issue for me is that if you’re hit with a car, because the bonnet hits you on the lower body I think your upper body should tend to roll over the bonnet. If your upper body is at the level of cars bumpers or even tyres, you’ve got nowhere to roll and your important bits would take the full force.

For those two reasons, I’m out. Which is a shame because I think it would be a laugh otherwise.

It’s the WTF factor that makes riding a recumbent (or any unusual bike) safer

People can only go ‘wtf’ if they see you.

It’s taken you this long?

you always seem to redeem yourself somehow, but this is a step too far.

There are so many different ways that accidents happen that it’s impossible to be certain what will happen in any situation. However I’ve had or know of several incidents where being on a recumbent made the crash safer:

– I was “doored” – on a normal bike I’d have been head-first into the window or over, but my legs acted like shock absorbers so I just stopped hard. Did more damage to the door than to me.

– A taxi did a u-turn without looking and I hit the back of it – again taxi came off worst.

– a friend was crushed against a barrier by a car – on a normal bike his legs would have been crushed, on a recumbent because his legs weren’t hanging down he was thrown over the barrier, avoiding serious injury.

friend was crushed against a barrier by a car – on a normal bike his legs would have been crushed, on a recumbent because his legs weren’t hanging down he was thrown over the barrier, avoiding serious injury.

What was he riding?

You know how it is when cycling gets a mention in the mainstream press? We trot over to the site in the hope of something interesting, only to be disappointed by yet another pointless argument about cyclists jumping red lights or not paying tax or something. Well it’s the same with recumbents. There is an interesting discussion to be had but it always gets derailed by a pointless argument about whether they are safer or less safe than “normal” bikes. I say pointless because neither side has any hard evidence and we can easily dream up scenarios where one may be safer than the other. All I can say is that, in a few years or riding 2 and 3 wheeled recumbents, the relative safety of them just wasn’t an issue. One may be safer than the other, I don’t know, but the difference is too small to matter in practice.

What was he riding?

A Flux, I think – a SWB recumbent.

I don’t know, but the difference is too small to matter in practice.

Exactly. Bikes are pretty safe anyway, so it’s impossible to say whether one is safer than another – there’s not enough statistical data.

Well it’s the same with recumbents. There is an interesting discussion to be had but it always gets derailed by a pointless argument about whether they are safer or less safe than “normal” bikes

Well it’s not pointless. I like the idea of recumbents to an extent, but this is my assessment of the dangers, just like I make before doing anything else.

I love to ride bikes. If the only bikes were recumbents, I would ride one. But the attraction is not enough to overcome what I see as the risks both in terms of visibility and the pattern of impact. I’d love to be proved wrong, but when I think of the times I’ve seen recumbents completely swamped by surrounding traffic, I feel that I’m making the right decision.

That Flux btw, that’s not as low as the ones I’m thinking of. The ones where your arse is inches off the floor would seem to be the coolest to me, but also the most dangerous.

I actually like the riding position on ‘normal’ bikes. It makes me feel poised and alert, ready to attack the twists and turns, or jump out of the saddle and attack a climb or a sprint. Maybe I don’t have the recumbent mentality. I don’t have a beard either 🙂

Bikes are pretty safe anyway

Actually, despite being a cyclist, and despite not having been knocked off so far (touch wood) I don’t think it’s an intrinsically safe activity. You’re quite vulnerable, and it has risks that you have to be aware of and take the initiative to mitigate. I don’t think it’s hard to mitigate the risks, of course. You can be quite safe, if you know what you are doing.

The ones where your arse is inches off the floor would seem to be the coolest to me, but also the most dangerous.

They’re the recumbent version of an Olympic track bike – you can ride them on the road, but they’re not really built for that.

The problem I find with very low recumbents – below bonnet level – is not so much that cars don’t see me, it’s that I can’t see. So junctions are interesting.

I’ve seen a fair few on the roads. Including a tandem three wheeler one.

If I had shitloads of money, I’d get an off-road three wheeler.

They fascinate me, cycling Big Sur one came flying past me and it was covered in a cloth fairing, like a yellow zeppelin 😆 the pilot must of been about 70 yrs old. Passed him later on that day parked up having some food. Also saw a hand cranked one on Santa Monica beach.

Would love to have a go on one.

If I had shitloads of money, I’d get an off-road three wheeler.

Sanny and Mark have been talking for at least 10 years about doing an article on offroad recumbents – I’ve had a full-sus Scorpion trike sitting here patiently waiting for ages 😉

Cloth fairing? Pah 😉

Can I volunteer to be the skeptical tester? 🙂