Daughter #1 is off on her DofE later this month and I need to get her something to sleep on.

I thought that self-inflating sleep mats were the best but now I hear thermarest being mentioned – what’s the difference?

If I got a thermarest what thickness should I be looking for considering she has to carry it around with her.

Any other DofE tips (clothing/kit/food) would also be greatly accepted.

I thought that thermarest mats were self-inflating mats.

Alpkit have just got their mats back in stock. I have been using one for years and it has been very good. Cheaper than thermarest too.

Numo

non self inflator. lighter. smaller. I’d have one of these over a self inflator every time.

I swear by my karrimat that isn’t a karrimat – like an eggbox style, so you’re off the ground more, more air pockets, for same weight. Not sure of the make though!

Have a bundle of yellow karrimats (and some thicker exped ones) in the garage. And a thermarest, but that’s quite bulky and heavy.

Ive pre-ordered a numo for my alpine kit bag. Cant wait to test it out this summer. No experience of non-self inflating though so not able to “recommend” it to anyone.

any 3/4 length self inflating (like thermarest) would suit her though. It’s what ive used for years. Alpkit ones are fine, if they arrive in stock for her.

Yes, Thermarest is just a brand-name. The self inflating foam mats “should” be warmer than things like the Numo which are basically airbeds.

My favourite is the Exped downmat – but they are expensive and a bit of a faff to inflate. I would go for some sort of self inflationg mat – doesn’t have to be Thermarest.

what’s DofE?

Duke of Edinburgh. youth achievement scheme, part expedition, part volunteering, part self-improvement.

Duke of Edinburgh awards scheme.

I couldn’t wait for Alpkit Numo to come back into stock so bought a Big Agnes Insulated Aircore, which is very similar but with added warmth. (non-insulated version available too). My first night sleeping on it was a wonderful experience! Packs smaller, is lighter and far more comfortable than a self-inflating mat…only drawback is having to inflate it under your own steam, but that only takes a few minutes.

whats the difference between a numo and an airbed?

I use (and like) a thermarest. A mate swears by an old foam mate (cant leak, but its a bit more bulky to pack).

whats the difference between a numo and an airbed?

materials and packed size primarily.
Numo is an airbed. But is an airbed a numo?
Show me an airbed…

cheers.

I have the thermarest Neoair it is heavier than he alpkit numo and cost nearly three times more but otherwise similar ! They are basically light air beds but I find mine comfortable and warn in all conditions including some cold early camping in Scotland.

My Daughter has the DofE recommended one from Cotswold Outdoor – it was £25 I think, and looks very nice.
Folds in half down the middle to make packing it easier.

I’d go thermarest every time. I have an army issue one and it’s just nowhere near as warm (genuine thermarests are issued for Norway tours).
It doesn’t need to be full length (3/4 is fine).

Go for the Numo. The alternatives and DofE “recommended” by the likes of Vango are a few hundred grams heavier.
I really feel sorry when I see the DofE kids carrying hugely oversized packs, full of heavy gear that they’re unlikely to use…

We just bought some self inflators for the summer rather than foam mats- I find foam mats colder and less comfortable. Thermarest is just a brand of self inflator.

We got these, which pack to about 2/3 the size of a foam camping mat. Cheaper ones aren’t great, but bigger than 3cm and they are too big.

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/a200-ultralight-camping-sleeping-mat-green-id_8195174.html

Cost vs bulk vs insulation

Foam mats and egg box style mats are lighter by quite a bit compared to self inflating mats.

Self inflating mats have internals that provide some insulation but add bulk and weight.

Non self inflating mats are usualy not that insulating, but better than nothing (good for comfort in the summer).

Vango do a mid priced self inflating mat that decathlon sell if theres one nearby. More expensive mats will have more features like smaller internal ‘cells’ to provide more insulation, or foil backing to reflect heat etc. When car camping ive taken foil backed bubble wrap as its an amazing insulator underneath another mat. But for one night in the summer a cheap foam mat will be fine anything else is just adding comfort.

I spend a certain amount of time outdoors, my aim for this year is to be a mountain leader by the winter so I have compiled a list of a few really useful things you might not have thought of:

– Ortlieb dry bag for the rucksack, yes they’re big and heavy but they’re pretty much the only thing that will keep your kit dry in a downpour…or indeed if you drop yourself or your rucksack into a stream.

– Sleeping bag liner. Make your own out of an old sheet, or pay for a purpose made one. Suggest you look at the composition.,,I found some ‘cotton’ ones going cheap a while back and on closer inspection discovered they were 80% polyester. Nasty.

– Compeed plasters. Teach your daughter to man up, pop the blister with a sterile needle and apply said Compeed plaster in the evening.

– zinc tape, not the plaster type stuff they sell in boots. Climbers finger tape is good if you can’t find anything else and learn how to apply it properly. In fact, I’m happy to write a ‘how to guide’ after the weekend as taping your feet correctly is an essential skill.

– under armour ‘cycling’ shorts. Fat mans rub, it’s real, it’s painful, and you don’t have to be fat or a man to get it.

– Vaseline. Rub it anywhere there’s likely to be chafing. Toes, feet, legs, armpits…

– laminator. Make a copy of the section of maps she requires, laminate them. These map/route cards fit conveniently in a pocket whilst the map itself stays out of the way until it’s really needed.

-tin foil. Line all cooking pots with it and then dispose of it after she’s done cooking, much easier than washing up. Alternatively ‘boil in the bag’ type MOD rations are useful, if expensive.

– brew mug. Trek mates style. 1 brew, in a mug with a lid in your pocket. Again, if you have a warm brew to hand nothing seems quite as bad as it could be.

– ear plugs. Other people snore.

But more importantly than kit is the knowledge of what to do and how to use the kit. The most essential skill being navigation. Get theat nailed and everything else becomes easier.

Hope all that helps,

Used to have a Thermarest prolite 4. Think just called Prolite now. I found it just right. If you get SIM sometimes worth getting a 3/4 length one, for short trips, feet can go on other stuff and saves carrying bulk.

Tried Multimat lite jobby but it delaminated after one night and literally turfed me off now it looks like a turtle. Was light tho!

not really for the dofe lot, more for the kit monkeys in this thread, but I think I shall drop in on Bob at pack packing light to have a gander at ones of these. Looks a great addition to the kit to extend comfort for little weight or volume. Obviously needs fabricating into something specific for your use. But with Mrs Stoner the seamstress at beck and call I think I can come up with something,

http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/practical/XA107.html

Top tips for DofE?
– the kids knowledge and technique is far more important than the shiny kit you but then.
– any shiny kit you do buy will get muddy, covered in food or left behind. See first point.
– motivation and attitude on exped gets you a long way, with a smile on your face.
Good food on exped is vital.

– Compeed plasters. Teach your daughter to man up, pop the blister with a sterile needle and apply said Compeed plaster in the evening.

Do you get on with it? I always found it caused more blisters!

– zinc tape, not the plaster type stuff they sell in boots. Climbers finger tape is good if you can’t find anything else and learn how to apply it properly. In fact, I’m happy to write a ‘how to guide’ after the weekend as taping your feet correctly is an essential skill.

Rule of thumb is that it MUST be white. The pink stuff is awful.

Ey up wrecker mate. I view the use of Compeed as a ‘making the best of a bad job’ type situation. If I tape my feet properly I don’t need to resort to Compeed but occasionally these things happen.

If I have to go tabbing whilst I still have Compeed plasters in place I put zinc tape over the top and then leave the lot alone until it falls off in due course.

Top Tips for DofE
1. Keep a smile on your face and keep the weight (off) down!

2. Keep the hydration up – especially in warm weather when the body works harder to stay cool. Drinking water helps balance the body’s ability to work hard and keeps headache’s at bay.

3. Keep the feet dry, blister free (never wear brand new boots on a major hike) wear clean socks, vaseline works wonders helping avoid hot spots under foot toes & heels – cut down on friction always carry a Compeed plaster pack for emergency and be fluent in first aid on dressing cuts and blisters. AT THE FIRST SIGN OF A HOTSPOT DEVELOPING ON YOUR FEET STOP WALKING INSPECT YOUR FFEET & ADJUST YOUR FOOTWEAR, LEARN TO SAVE YOURSELF THE AGONY OF HIKING ON AN OPEN WOUND. PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT.

DON’T POP BLISTER’S – IT’S THE BODY’S NATURAL DEFENCE AGAINST FRICTION SORES & INFECTION. KEEP DRY & SIMPLY APPLY MORE COMPEED STRIPS IF NECESSARY, THE MORE THE BETTER, ESSENTIALLY PADDING OUT WERE FRICTION OCCURS, IF THE SKIN IS PENETRATED AND BLEEDS TAKE EXTRA CARE WITH DRESSING THE WOUND KEEP IT CLEAN & DRY. SEE THE COMPEED WEBSITE TO REAFFIRM THIS ADVICE.

4. Comfort, a couple of simple car wash sponges placed under the rucksack harness on the shoulders will relieve aches and pain – seriously this works wonders, a cheap remedy and very effective at relieving sore shoulders on long hikes.

5. Start the day with fuel in your tank – Banana Porridge is great for giving energy till lunch time. (try and avoid too many sweets/chocolates that peak your blood sugars and can bring on drowsiness/fatigue – keep drinking sips of water along the route rather than quenching a thirst with too much liquid at once and needing the loo out in the field, it works! Snack on oatmeal flat jacks and dried fruit if hunger kicks in.

6. Wear directional clothing to keep you comfortable and dry, don’t forget a hat, remember your out @ night when it’s cold and maybe wet, stay comfortable.

7. Expedition food rations are expensive, try making up your own dry nutritional meals but avoiding too much weight, Go nut’s for a few day’s it’s very healthy! unless you have an allergy, if that’s the case, so totally avoid!, but dried pasta, cook in a bag rice, flavoured tinned fish (mackerel) and Spam! small tube/jar peanut butter, uht cheese (but watch the weight), tortilla wraps and fruit will keep you going far longer than any rehydrated meal you’ll pay a fortune for and probably won’t enjoy the taste. 7a. Enjoy a brew of your favourite hot drink, it’s surprising how it will perk up your spirit’s when you grab a break.

8. Don’t be bullied into “having to use’ a Trangia type meths burning stove, nothing in the rule book says you can’t use a modern mini gas stove (with caution) Primus eta, Jetboil and MSR to name a few are superb kit and will make a hot meal or brew in less than half the time, you try cooking in the rain with these, the flame won’t damp out, and essentially less kit to carry, go for a auto ignition model, just don’t forget the gas and be the envy of every one else trying to cook on a meth’s burner – what are they thinking?

9. Carry insect repellent, a few wet wipes and a dry flannel to keep clean, essential on long treks where the body secretions can quickly turn into sores and make life very uncomfortable chaffing were the skin rubs.

10. A good nights sleep – Among other’s, Thermarest make a wide variety of sleeping mats to aid the traveller get a good sleep, my theory is this, buy cheap – buy twice. Good quality gear should outlast poor decision making, but be wary of spending out too much on something that (may) seldom be ever used again. If it doesn’t go well to plan, the young backpacker in your family might actually detest camping ever again, sadly the statistics for DofE first timers indicate far less participants ever actually go on to achieve Gold.
Personally I would spend less on a mattress but more on the sleeping bag, but essentially, as first raised in tip one above, keep the weight down. they will enjoy the adventure as long as they are warm and dry but not overloaded with what we think they need, but knowing what I do now, and how keen my lad is to continue in this spirit, I would again invest in the best I can afford, knowing he will surely use it, treat it respectfully and be a benefit to his outdoor adventures for years to come.

Finally, Enjoy the experience, many people start with all the right intentions but loose enthusiasm when the going gets tough and remember it is a challenge, pace yourself on walks and work as a team, don’t take risk but stay safe and look out for your colleagues, in turn they will help you.

Don’t forget DofE participant’s get 15% off at Cotswold Outdoor for kit (see the website for details.

My son will achieve his gold award over the spring/summer of 2015 and enjoyed nearly every minute, minus the occasional blister truly earned and insect bite but we learn by experience and although I am writing this post, most of the tips come from him.
Good luck to all who participate in this well worthwhile award scheme – hard work pays off and the good memories of achievement will truly last a lifetime, if it’s done right.

My lad’s doing his DoE & recommends this one Mountain Equipment sleeping mat

Useful points – but not this one:

-tin foil. Line all cooking pots with it and then dispose of it after she’s done cooking, much easier than washing up.

Dispose of it how? The kind of places that are worth going to don’t have litter bins. I’d sooner wash up than arrive at a camp to find manky tinfoil left by the previous group.

For a school D of E:

See if they have roll mats to lend out, all the ones I have been involved with do. Centers/Schools tend to buy cheap and in bulk.

Unless your sure they are going to keep it up (progress to Gold, and maybe go abroad to do this) get a much cheaper foam one, and wrap it in a builders sack. Its light, it wont pop, is cheap. Kids tend to sit on them out on the campsite, or lots of kids in one tent chatting if the weathers bad. Inflatables really don’t stand up to this kind of abuse well.

For D of E, I really don’t see the need for the inflatable mats at all.

I am also a Gold level assessor for my sins.

be the envy of every one else trying to cook on a meth’s burner – what are they thinking?

Dispose of it how?

Carry zip-loc freezer bags. You do not want to have food packaging in a non sealed bag.

DON’T POP BLISTER’S – IT’S THE BODY’S NATURAL DEFENCE AGAINST FRICTION SORES & INFECTION. KEEP DRY & SIMPLY APPLY MORE COMPEED STRIPS IF NECESSARY, THE MORE THE BETTER, ESSENTIALLY PADDING OUT WERE FRICTION OCCURS,

Good luck with that!!!!

Thanks for all the info…. certainly a bit to think about.

Re. the stove…. would a Jetboil be lighter than the meths stove? I don’t mind buying one as I could always sell it afterwards, but I have two other daughters who want to do their D of E in a year or two.

I’ll be buying a self-inflating mat or similar as the simple foam mats are quite bulky and the school DofE chap says they can be a pain to carry around.

I think we’ll be borrowing a rucksack unless someone tells me they’re hugely heavy.

She’s worn the boots a bit already (plus they are not new so have already been worn in) so hopefully they should be OK but we’ve got Compeed and Second Skin ready. She’s familiar with blisters already as her hands are quite battered from rowing.

From what I’ve gathered it’s all about packing smart (light & not wasteful) and being warm/dry with food you like. She’s already opted for cold pizza to eat while walking on the first day!

Vango do a self-inflating mat on Amazon for about £17, perfect for your requirements and ours are warm enough to keep my 9 and 6 year olds warm all year round.

As somebody who is his schools DoE co-ordinator.(And since we are willy waving, an ML as well)
Your local authority will have a kit store which will have waterproofs,boots,sleeping bags,and importantly;female specific rucksacks.All for hire for not much money. As for cooking on your own,we make that a no-no,it is about team work,I am training a bronze group this year and they are making up their menus just now and divvying up what they are all bringing,it saves weight and gets them to co-op. My authority has also banned gas stoves,as hot as meths gets,the trangias we, and every award in the UK uses,are more stable and “child friendly” than the majority of gas stoves. Anything else you want to know,my email is in my profile.

Our school co-ordinator has emailed me to say that he wouldn’t want her to take a jetboil for the ‘teamwork’ reason 👿 (even though it states they can take their own stove).
I might be missing something so please feel free to correct me, but surely only one person can cook on a meths stove at a time? If so, why can’t she share the jetboil with the others she would use a meths stove with anyway (2-3 people)? – it would be a lot quicker and therefore more efficient/enjoyable.
In what way is it different to someone wearing good boots that keep your feet warm and dry rather than cheap boots that didn’t?

A neoprene roll mat was good enough for me (although I can sleep anywhere), rolled up in a bin liner on the outside of my bag. I’ve still got it, it must be 20 years old now.

A top tip I was given when I did my DofE awards and expeditions through cadets was “pay attention to the socks you wear”. A lot of people on my expeditions wore the polyester style sports socks (Wilson etc.)and suffered for it.

I was advised to wear a thin pair of proper cotton socks under thicker walking socks. The only time I’ve ever had a blister was after walking out of my tent in my clean socks forgetting that dew existed. As it was a short stint on the last morning I risked just wearing the walking socks and learned a valuable lesson.

Other things I learned from my expeditions:

Keeping a kit to make hot drinks in a side pocket or somewhere easily accessible is a really good idea, hiding behind the stones on a wet and windy Inglebrough was made infinitely better by being able to make a brew.

Learn some marching songs, the dafter the better. It really helps keep spirits up, especially on any sections that are flat and a little boring. We managed to think of lots of things to do with that little bird with a yellow bill that landed on our window sill.

Pay attention to timings, I don’t know if things have changed since I did mine but on our practice walk we were warned about hitting a checkpoint half an hour early. We’d planned the route using the cards and contour theories but didn’t realise how much we were cracking on through one of the sections. Each taking a turn monitoring our pace on the actual expedition helped a lot.

Reading this thread is making me a little nostalgic, some great times on those walks. Need to dig out the kit and do it again.

I’m not sure what the anti meths stove thing is about. They work well and are light. There’s also the added fun of playing “blow out the Trangia” (mind your feet).

Mind you, I use a gas stove.

Oh, and Nav; the emphasis is on building skills. That will be taken into account at Bronze,and on the practise certainly there will be some pacing and instruction on how to use a compass,something that works much beter outdoors.

Don’t worry about it. She’ll be in someone else’s tent and sleeping bag anyway.

As another assessor – meh – just give them cheap kit, they’re not out there for too long anyway.

Almost forgot, most important – A Golden Rule! – Follow the countryside code
!https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/338299/countryside-code.pdf

I’m sorry to read that your DofE coordinator wouldn’t want your daughter to take a micro gas stove because of the so called ‘teamwork reason’? what? now that bs remark really does deserve a raspberry. Personally I’d be inclined to show some initiative and put it in the daughters rucksack and let her bring it out when the troop realises all the matches (that they forgot to bring) are wet and they ain’t getting any hot tea that night because no-one brought along a microwave, except the one’s they use in mobile phones.
You are the parent and quite deservedly ‘The Best’ teacher your child could ever have.

It’s true Meth’s burners are good (in the right continent and altitude) but here in uk are often seen as filthy and impractical, especially in younger hands. I do however agree that every participant should make practical use of this type of stove for experience sake, but let’s be honest, in 2015 who want’s to cook on heavy oil, most probably in the rain, in failing light? not me for sure, but I would recommend a magnifying glass and the sunshine if I could guarantee the weather, but to be practical I endorse the proper use of gas and don’t necessarily agree with the other voices on here who like to blind you with their credentials and bluff you into an oily mess.

I have a couple of well loved dual fuel Primus stoves that often lend themselves to burning spirits, but usually far from these shores, but it’s certainly not ideal or ecologically sound. Cooking on a small gas stove will be much more efficient and quicker to get a meal on the plate and into the mouths of hungry hikers and I have always put the emphasis on team work and into that spirit, sharing the chores, but too many cooks spoil the broth as I’ve often heard said around a camp fire.
Let’s not kid ourselves, these type of expeditions can be dangerous and at worst lethal, life is a challenge, but using this advise correctly and acknowledging every thought process should be built around safety. Sharing information about foot sores and water supply levels, or even toilet procedures on the hill to the mentoring of navigating life skills are just as important as what’s on the menu for supper and how it is being cooked.

I know tales of these young adults, for that’s what they are, going away on an school expedition without so much as a coat, adequate walking boots, in some cases flimsy trainers, expected to tab miles or even being without any food rations whatsoever for 4 or 5 nights arrive at their starting point and seen them get put back on the minibus and driven straight back to school for re-educating in a classroom environment. A humiliating, time wasting and hard way to learn but nevertheless an important lesson.

Teach your daughter the correct way, to be assertive, display leadership and encourage her to lead that trip to the finish, let someone else cook on the stove if it gets the job done. Essentially it’s all about teamwork and time, hopefully a good-time, show them the right direction. I think she’ll be soon proudly stepping up to receiving the gold award from HRH in short time to come.

Time and tide wait for no man