Or do they only really come into their own when pointed downwards..
Im after a slack ( 65/ 65.5 deg ) 160mm 170mm travel full suss that has more reach than my 2014 E29 that isn’t going to be a bore when doing anything other than uolift days..moon on a stick possibly?

27.5″ or 29er?

Not really fussed but quite like the idea of building a 27.5 bike up that’ll take a 2.7″ front tyre 2.5 rear on 35 or 40mm rims.

I’d go slightly shorter travel out back but slack geometry, like my 140mm Banshee Spitfire. The current ones are 65.5 or 66 deg head angle (depending on dropout position) with a 160mm fork.

Mine is a few years old so a bit shorter and taller and slightly less slack, but it’s now running a 150mm fork and -2 deg headset which gives it the same reach and BB height as the current models with an even slacker (64.1-65.1 deg) head angle. Manages to be a lot of fun on flat twisty singletrack but handles steep, fast or rough DH trails easily (I’m the limiting factor!)

Tons of clearance at the back – officially fits a 2.5″ but people are running plus tyres on them.

However, have you thought of trying smaller wheels on your Enduro 29, like Dirt magazine did?

I dunno OP. Something like that is going to suck the joy out of boggo rides out unless you stick an engine in it or run the suspension really hard which kind of defeats the point of all that travel 😕

A few I ride with have Capra’s, any good?

Where will you mostly be riding it?

A few I ride with have Capra’s, any good?

Same here, including me and they are loads of fun – long reach, they aint though

What do you mean by playful? You want to spend loads of time in the air?

If you want more ‘pop’ I’d definitely go shorter travel. The Orange Five I borrowed a few weeks ago was very lively. Very easy to get airborne and really fired out of tight berms and stuff. It was faster everywhere than my hardtail but didn’t have enough travel to wallow around.

I borrowed a Specialized Enduro a while ago and I remember it being very planted. All the grip in the world but hard to hop it around. It was a great, fast bike but depends how you get your kicks.

160/170 travel is getting into mind DH bike territory. Very capable race bikes that swallow everything in sight. Best used for monster trucking rough trails.

You’ve described a Patrol.

Brilliant things. I had a Capra before mine, very different bikes. The Capra was nowhere near as fun, just felt like it wanted to follow the lines and plough through stuff. The Patrol just wanted to take off everything. A Scout would be even more so, but I wanted more in reserve, and a slacker HA.

What do you mean by playful?

+1

And how much longer than your enduro?

If you get a properly long enduro bike with 160 or 170mm travel and a 65deg HA then playfulness is a relative term.

The Kona Process 153 is playful almost to a fault, but only when there’s some form of gradient – bit of a slog on the flat due to the weight.

The Radon Swoop is surprisingly nimble and engaging for a 170mm enduro sled with a sub-65deg HA and long reach – probably because of the 430mm chainstays. But again it’s not a singletrack rocket.

Canyon Strive CF race seemed quite sharp and lively to me. Also has short stays IIRC.

The Enduro is one of the more playful 160mm bikes I’ve had a go on, so maybe the new one? Or go up a size on the 29er and put a 650b wheel in the rear to lower the seat tube & BB and make it more fun.

By Playful i suppose i mean that i don’t just want a bike that’s fun going down.I had a lot of fun in Morzine/ Les Gets last year but the reality of ‘ I’m never pedalling again/ uplifts only from now on ‘ is never going to happen. I enjoy days out on the tight & twisty or just singletrack wherever it may take me but the whole adrenalin thing for me is fast intense riding if that makes sense. My fighting weight is 110kgs so blasting down ‘surface to air’ at Aston Hill for instance isn’t going to happen on 130mm.

My fighting weight is 110kgs so blasting down ‘surface to air’ at Aston Hill for instance isn’t going to happen on 130mm.

That depends on the bike and the shock. A 140mm bike with a progressive leverage rate could take as much force to bottom out as something with 170mm rear travel but a linear linkage, especially if the shock has good damping adjustment (at 110kg you need a Cane Creek or X2, or a custom tune on anything with less adjustment).

Does this look playful enough?
[video]http://vimeo.com/159327697[/video]

I know what you mean. I rode Aston Hill on my old Process 153 in the summer and TBH the black run felt really difficult. In the past I’ve always been on a freeride or DH bike.

If you just want a really capable enduro bike that’s not a complete plow, the Swoop is well worth a look. The flip chip makes a real difference and effectively switches it from enduro to mini-DH bike.

Does this look playful enough?

The Patrol has already been recommended 😉

I guess I wanted something similar to you and did some research/asked some questions. In the end I went for the new Radon swoop, although it has yet to arrive. Good spec for you cash and it’s a bit different…everyone’s on Capras, as good as they are!

You’ve described a Patrol.

Basically that.

For me however, at the expense of outright speed, backed up by my race results. It was however, playful & fun. Which is good, as I was noticeably slower on it than my previous two bikes & subsequent replacement 🙂

I went for an Intense Tracer 275, you can run it 140 or 160 at the rear, the head angle is slack, but not Enduro weapon slack like a Capra or a Nomad (but slightly slacker than a Bronson). Works well everywhere.

The only slight annoyance, it was sold as being “two bikes in one” with the adjustable rear travel which I suppose it is – well two bikes that weigh the same, the problem with that is that whilst you only have to undo a bolt and move the rear shock mount to change the travel, you can’t keep the same shock tune – I don’t pretend to know how or why, but the sag % changes as does the rebound speed, it sort of works it goes from a 160mm gravity bike running 30% sag to a 140 trail bike with 25% – rebound gets quicker at the same time so it makes it more sprightly, but it’s not exactly where I’d want it.

TBH I leave it in 160mm most of the time, it barely bobs at all climbing (Float X CTD) and doesn’t make it feel too lumpen on the flat stuff.

+1 new Five – a mint bike. Having said that, the new Orange 6 might surprise you. I demoed one for 3 rides and with the X2 shock it’s surprisingly responsive and fun. Quite agile too, for such a long bike. If I rode more in the Lakes and Alps I’d have one, but a Five is probably my next bike, once I’ve ruled out the new Stage 5 – a glowing review from Enduro mag is tempting me to try it… http://enduro-mtb.com/en/exclusive-review-orange-stage-5-135-mm-trail-bike/

I like the look of the stage 5 but i think its gonna have a ’boutique’ price. I hoping not to spend no more that £3k if I can help it. Now i know this is no help but ive also been considering the Speshialized Turbo Levo FSR.
I know its only 140mm but as I’m really crap at climbing im thinking it’ll just make my riding more fun as a whole..

I’d be very surprised if cheaper specs don’t come along soon for the Stage 5, under £3k maybe. Anyway, good luck with whatever you go for.

I know what you mean. I rode Aston Hill on my old Process 153 in the summer and TBH the black run felt really difficult. In the past I’ve always been on a freeride or DH bike

Really? I’ve ridden my process loads at Aston and I’m faster than I was on my dh bike.

My fighting weight is 110kgs so blasting down ‘surface to air’ at Aston Hill for instance isn’t going to happen on 130mm.

Without trying to Willy wave I’ve also ridden my 150mm hardtail down surface to air and while it’s definitely more tiring it’s very rideable ! And I’m no lightweight

My process does have light bicycle wheels and an avalanche rear shock conversion tho, both of which help make it better

The 153 makes a brilliant ‘park bike’ as well as an ‘enduro weapon,’for me anyway

Titus El guapo

The Nukeproof Mega 275/29 with a lightish build of around 30lbs, are loads, loads more playful than my Reign because of their progressive suspension rates and highish BB. The reach on them is pretty long as well.

Yeti sb6c.

Best bike I’ve ever ridden!

Already been recommended, but I opened the thread to say Patrol, so I may as well say it. Patrol.

Really? I’ve ridden my process loads at Aston and I’m faster than I was on my dh bike.

Yep, I always forget how steep the middle bit of the black is. And how blown out those rooty corners are.

I’ll say Scout with a DB inline or other good shock (just to be different). Never been to aston hill but it would be perfect for it by the looks of things.

I had to reset my password (twice) to get into this forum just to say PATROL. Only to find it has been said a bunch of times already!

submarined – Member
You’ve described a Patrol.

In the classic style of recommending what you have – I say Patrol too!

Patrol, the long travel bike that feels like a short travel bike, not sure that’s a good thing! but it does “pop”. It is a bit of a pig on the climbs mind. And yes, I have one too, and often question if it was the right decision.

Considered a Rocket?

I was blown away by how poppy and playful it was when I demoed it (Fox shock). Bought one shortly after. Awesome bike.

Patrol, the long travel bike that feels like a short travel bike, not sure that’s a good thing! but it does “pop”. It is a bit of a pig on the climbs mind. And yes, I have one too, and often question if it was the right decision.

I don’t think they climb that badly, my Patrol climbs way way better than my El Guapo ever did 🙂

But the OP is definitely describing a Patrol.

I find my Patrol climbs better than my old Spitfire.

I was expecting it to be a bit of a pig going up but was pleasantly surprised.

Same old recommend what you have but the process 153 rules. Feels perfect and playful at bike park, Rode Cwmcarn uplift at the weekend and it took that in its stride. I would consider Cwmcarn proper downhill as it’s mega rocky and rooty.
Granted it’s not an XC bike but if you are happy to just sit and grind up hill rather than race up I think it pedals alright

Patrol climbs reasonably well for what it is, decent steep seat angle helps.

it’s worth riding one to see if you like it though.

If you are not bothered about outright speed & playfulness is the most important trait, then you can’t really go wrong with one 🙂

Had a patrol, felt pretty good, rode moto line at black Mountain, needed 40ft jumps to come alive. Promptly sold it and went to an actual trail bike (5010) to replicate those feelings on my day to day riding. Best thing I did in terms of having fun.

Hado a process 153 too, same problem as the patrol, never felt bad, but hardly ever I had the fun on local riding I do now on my shorter travel bike.

To be fair my 5010 is real capable it has 140mm fox 36s and procore.

Transition Patrol
Banshee Spitfire
Banshee Rune
Saracen Ariel

In the spirit of suggesting what you own, have a look at the Airdrop Edit, only 150mm travel but fits all your other criteria

Orbea rallon. It’s light for the travel. Perfect geometry and very well reviewed. Dirt rate it as one of the best, and livelier than others in the same category. It’s fast when you need it to be, and fun when you want that.