Hi all,

Girlfriend is looking for a new camera. She’s not done much “proper” photography before, but is keen to learn and get into it. She’s doing a lot of travelling this summer so wants a good camera for that.

She’s been looking at micro 4/3 type cameras (Sony NEX6, Nikon V1 etc), will be handy to be able to change lenses down the road, but is small enough for travel use (compared to a SLR).

Don’t really know what to look for, so any suggestions?
– Budget is fairly loose, around £450 tops I think.
– Not too delicate
– Simple enough to use for an amateur, but won’t be short of capability once she gets into it.

Any thoughts?

Ta, Duane.

Well i love my gf1.

14mm lense set to auto is a great compact substitute, playing with manual aetting for when you want more control is easy. But most of the time i have a canon 50mm f1.8 on it which forces alot more manual work on you. Worth it though.

The lack of a view finder is a pain though so much that i got elecronic one that sits in the hotfoot.

Mine was third hand and still going strong.

I did a large amount of research into these…. and asked on here Link to my threadin the end I was looking mostly at the Panasonic G5/G6 as they have view finders (I have a condition that mean my hands shake so holding a camera away isn’t too good) but most of their compact system cameras are good. the others I looked at in depth were the Olympus pen series as I really liked the retro design (despite saying I didn’t in the original thread). again the lack of view finder put me off. remember though that the base unit may cost c£400 but you will spend that again and more for each successive lens, in the end I went for the cannon g15… all the features of a slr but without the interchangeable lenses but I can still get all the filters for it as well… hth

link to later thread…

and the final thread this thread has some great links for reading material

Sony and Nikon are compact system cameras with changeable lenses but are not Micro Four Thirds. MFT are made by Panasonic and Olympus (and soon to be Kodak)

The Panasonic G5 with a kit lens can be found for £250 now which is a good deal, but the GX1 is a metal body and a lot tougher and a bit more compact, however the smallest of the lot is the GM1 its smaller than a lot of compact cameras but you can still swap lenses on it.

I’ll throw my hat into the ring to recommend the Lumix too. OH has a GF2 and it’s ace.

Molgrips will be along shortly to tell you all about Olympus. (-:

I have a GF2 therefore it is the best

By STW logic, you’re my wife now.

Cougar as a Cougar surely you’re the wife?

Whatever floats your boat fella

micro 4/3 is the best system – most support and the most lenses.

I’d go for Olympus e-pl3 as a good balance between price and performance. The EP-3, E-PL3 and I think E-PM2 have faster autofocus, they are the ones to go for.

Autofocus is for whimps. that said the infinite focusing rings on the lumix lenses are shite.

Another reason for going ‘foreign’ lense.

I have a G3 because I wanted a viewfinder which imo is essential for accurate composition and use in sunlight. Of course with a view finder they don’t look as good or small but still tiny compared with a full SLR. Whatever body you choose get the Olympus f1.8 45mm prime lens, amazing lens for the money.

I’m going to flog all my micro 4/3rds if interested

GF1
GF3
Panasonic flash
20mm lens,
14mm lens
And a zoom lens but I can’t recall the range.

Email me if interested.

If the budget is £450 – try spending £300 on a GX-1 with a zoom lens (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PANASONIC-LUMIX-DMC-GX1K-16-0-MP-DIGITAL-CAMERA-ASPH-14-42mm-LENS-KIT-EX-DISPLAY-/261435347260?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN&hash=item3cdec2d13c)

…and then picking up the 20mm f1.7 prime with the rest of the budget (New Other ones are selling for £160-180 on eBay)

That would give you a really good introduction to mirrorless cameras

What is she moving from? Compact/mobile phone?

I moved from a compact to an Olympus OM-D E-M5 last January. From then until September I had mixed results (not always getting the shot or even a half decent shot from it) until I did a course on the basics of DSLR and learnt how to shoot in manual mode. If she has never used something other than other than a compact I highly recommend a course for the basics.

My camera is perhaps a little out of budget but I have been happy with the olympus. Dpreview is a good source of reviews and information.

Sid

If you want a compact and don’t want/need interchangeable lenses but still want a zoom, then the Sony RX100 is very good.

The term 4/3rds refers to the size of the sensor, not the lens mount but the lenses are made to focus the image onto a given sensor so the two are related.

DSLRs have an APS-C size sensor, which is considerably larger than most compact cameras sensors and is the reason why their image quality is so much better.

Mirror-less cameras, which have emerged in the last few years, tend to use APS-C sensors as well but they are more compact because they don’t use the mirror arrangement to project the field of view (it’s electronic). Overall their IQ is still generally as good as a DSLR.

The Sony RX100 has a very large(for a compact camera) 1 inch sensor and the larger the sensor, in general, the better the image quality (better depth of field control, better ISO performance etc).

The Lumix is also very good but I am not sure what size its sensor is.

There are now some very good compact cameras (i.e. with non-interchangeable lenses, some with zoom some without) that have APS-C sensors in them.The Richoh GR is a good example and a brilliant camera.

I have a friend who has had quite a lot of work published in trendy photo journals who uses one of these as his daily shooter.

You don’t need manual mode for good pictures, but you do need to understand exposure.

EDIT Actually, that’s not true. Understanding exposure helps you get more out of some shots, and helps you capture stuff that would otherwise not work at all, but P mode will do just fine MOST of the time.

Just got an Olympus OMD M5 – pricey, and mentally compllicated! But nice and compact, excellent (digital) viewfinder as well as screen. Best range of lenses for micro 4/3 too. Starting to get to grips with it and getting some good shots, but not a beginner camera. (That’ll be why Im struggling with it then….!)
On a similar note, any suggestions for a trail-proof camera bag to take said Olympus OMD M5 with pancake zoom lens anyone? Its to wear whilst riding, so to fit on chest or waist belt, nice and snug to stay out of the way, but easy access to avoid p***ing everyone else off for action shots. Needs to be weather proof, have ‘grab’ handle on lid, belt attachments, prob 4 D loops and front/top opening for ease of access whilst still attached.
Cheers!

Since people are mentioning the EM-5 I’d point out that there’s an EM-10 just released, the lowest model in the OM-D range. Very small, and with most of the features.

Another +1 for the Lumix range here, I have a GF1 with the 20mm fixed lens and love it

but

If she wants to ‘get into it’ and is travelling she may do better with something like the Lumix LX7. Nice lens (though not as nice as the changeable lenses), compact but not tiny and there are lots of manual controls. It’s a good halfway house between a fully compact camera and a micro 4/3

I went crazy and bought the OMD-EM1 and I am really impressed with it. Firstly it handles like a real camera, not like an electronic gadget. Secondly the image quality is really good (*). I am finding it harder to justify taking my big FF DSLR out of the house.

* This is essentially a 1:1 crop from a larger image

http://www.autresdirections.co.uk/pblog/index.php?showimage=445

You can also get a pancake zoom lens for m43 – so it’s really thin, and pops out electrically like a compact camera. Attached to a small m43 camera it would make it properly pocketable still give you zoom.

I went crazy and bought the OMD-EM1

I really want one of those. I’ve got eight 4/3 lenses 🙂

Thanks for all the replies – she still hasn’t made a decision!

The M5/10 look good, but a bit pricey. Anything worth considering between them and the GF2?

Ta,
Duane.

I’ve just got a Nikon J2 to try out as a small DSLR replacement. £179 from Argos dirt cheap really. Leaves change for fun things to do to photograph.

I’m a nikon user though and wanted to try the system out. If I was looking for a do everything first camera a mate’s got the Sony RX100 and it’s a fantastic camera, compact but with the same 1″ size sensor as the 1 system. Good optics and PASM modes for taking things further.

As much as I love getting the proper camera out I struggle these days when small compacts can get the job done so well in most situations.

Sorry to hijack your thread! Joshvegas, do you use FD lenses on it? Swayndo on here gave me a GF1 to try a few days ago and I plan on using my FD lenses. If so, which adaptor did you go for?

Have a look at the GX1 – it falls between the GF2 and the OM-D ranges

Panasonic G6 with 14-140mm lens on ebay from panasonic outlet for £529 at the moment.

They are listed as refurbs but they have many so I think that they are just dumping stock.

Thanks guys, will check out the GX1. Surprised there’s been little mention of the Sony NEX range – are they no good (I know they’re technically not micro 4/3)?

As you asked…

The sony nex (now renamed alpha) has a larger sensor than m4/3 which has 2X crop, or in other words is half the size of normal sensor, which is actually 1/4 the area. Which is one hell of a handicap that can only be overcome by spending much more on lenses than a camera with a larger sensor.

The sonys come in apsc which is a 1.5 crop and full frame (the a7 series of cameras, but they’re new and more expensive than the crop version, but surprisingly not much more expensive than the high end m4/3s).

Sony produce the sensors for olympus by the way, so the technology is the same, just smaller. Sony are major share holders in olympus too.

The a6000 is the latest sony apsc model. They’ve taken olympus autofocus technology and augmented with on chip stuff for object tracking giving the first compact camera able to compete with dslrs. None of the m43 cameras can do tracking af.

So, no, they’re not ‘no good’. They’re better. I’ve had both systems, currently on sony apsc but will go full frame when the prices start to come down.

half the size of normal sensor, which is actually 1/4 the area. Which is one hell of a handicap

It’s really not. It means you get slightly worse image quality in low light, which may or may not impact your pictures. Won’t make much difference for stuff viewed on a computer, unless you are zooming in to look for image flaws.

The newer m43 sensor, the 16mp that Oly have been using in the epl-5 is very good on noise, but even my ancient one is still ok. I’m still happy taking photos which is what matters to me.

Nex are good though, but the range of lenses is far less. The usual advice applies – try each one see which appeals. They all work well.

None of the m43 cameras can do tracking af.

I think the Oly em-1 does, doesn’t it?

It’s really not

It really is 😉

In the real world it means you have to spend more in lenses to get the same effect.

M4/3 may have a wide range of lenses but they just can’t compete with fast lenses. Want something that competes with the most basic of lenses on aps-c, the humble 50mm f1.8? You can’t have one. There is no 35mm f1.2. The closest you can get is an eye-wateringly expensive 25mm f1.4.

I think the Oly em-1 does, doesn’t it?

No. Only nikon, Sony and I believe the new fujis may too.

I’ve got the Olympus EPL3, very happy with it, but am lusting after the OM-D E-M10 or 5 as I’m missing having a viewfinder

In the real world it means you have to spend more in lenses to get the same effect.

Sure, but that effect is not really that important, to me at least. There have been a few times I’ve wished for better sensitivity, but not many. It’s not as big of a deal as you’re making out.

As for fast lenses, I assume from the figures you’re mentioning that you are talking about depth of field. I’ve found that anything under f2.0 even on my 4/3 cam is such a narrow dof that it’s impractical for hand holding or moving subjects.

To the OP again – more important to get what fits you and you like to use than worrying about low light noise or detail (that you’ll probably never see).

Olympus EM-1 does have phase detect AF and consequently continous AF, however reading about it’s unclear if it uses PDAF when using micro 4/3 lenses. Manual says no, but unofficially Olympus say it uses both.

I love my lumix DMC-GM1 which comes with useable 12-32 which is great for landscape. Its a compromise of course but I have found it ideal for biking due to size. I am able to take 2 extra lenses with me -a tele zoom 45-150 and a prime fast lens. I get away without viewfinder most of the time- just some very bright days make it a bit hit or miss. Pleased with the quality of pictures- if you are on instagram you can check my pictures (very biking orientated of course!) jamiefraser5