So why is it large bikes don’t have correspondingly longer head tubes? As a tall rider too I’ve often wondered this.

They do.

From 90mm on a Small to 150mm on an XL.

http://14761-presscdn-0-15.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/specialized-camber-geo.jpg

I find it quite interesting an XL smuggler is approx the same ETT length as a M Geometron (shorter reach) for which I’d recommend a rider between 5’8 and 6′ but has a smaller reach than the Small GeoMetron.

The L and XL GeoMetron are much larger, 20mm and 40mm longer ETT and 40mm and 60mm longer reach respectively.

The Reach is a big difference but the BB height relative to the Stack is very noticeable as well.

Bike makers are trying to make the same bike with the same characteristics for different size riders – not a range of 4 different bikes for 4 different sizes of rider.

But that’s exactly my point. How can a bike have the same characteristics when for a shortarse the bars are 2″ higher than the saddle, and for a lanky git are 3″ lower?

Maybe the height of the rider doesn’t have much to do with it – you’re just some meat that needs to be transported the height of the saddle is about making the meat comfortable – control of the bike is via the bars and pedals and is about the relationship between those points and the wheels – the wheel size and the crown height are the same across the range (of a given model of bike) and the bars primary job are controlling that wheel.

That said though getting a bit of variety in wheel size is helping to make bikes that are better suited to different sized riders. It made no sense to me in the past that so much effort went into geometry and fit with frame design but there was a one-size-fits-all approach to the wheels. I find it nice to ride with a bike now rather ride on top of it. I’d welcome a similar shake up with road bikes! – a rim size that results in a wheel size similar to a 29er

Plus spacers look cak.

so is this a fashion issue rather than anything more empirical? 🙂

They do.

From 90mm on a Small to 150mm on an XL.

Specialised seam to be the one of the few manufacture that make significant changes in length in head tube length others below seam to have less movement

the geomatron

is 110mm to 130mm

Stack 596mm to 615mm

bird aries

110mm sx to 120mm xl

stack 599mm to 607mm

trek fuel

100mm to 110mm

stack 604mm to 612mm

They do.

From 90mm on a Small to 150mm on an XL.

It gets longer, yes, but not enough to maintain the relative vertical positioning of arse vs hands. To do so the XL would have a head-tube length of 193mm(ish) (versus Medium).

It gets longer, yes, but not enough to maintain the relative vertical positioning of arse vs hands. To do so the XL would have a head-tube length of 193mm(ish) (versus Medium).

You could scale absolutely everything up proportionally – frame, wheel diameters and tyre volumes, forks and travel, tube diameters, everything- so that the fit, weight distribution and so on is exactly the same for a tall rider as it is for a regular height one – every detail of an XL bike for a 6’6″ tall rider being 11.111% larger than average. The next step from there would be to build rider-height specific trails with all the corners having 11.111% wider radiuses otherwise the tall blokes would all end up in the bushes. 🙂

I’m 6′ 6″ and ride a XL camber evo. Personally I think 29ers are the best thing since coffee for my size. I know it’s not in yr travel but I guess the stumpy 29er would do the thing you want. I guess lots of other manufacturers similar in sizing too, as you can see above.

The Pyga Stage Max in XL is big. I’m 6’2″ and was trying to figure out whether L or XL would fit me best… I reckon somewhere in the middle. I went for L in the end as I guessed it’d be a better size for others to demo and/or to sell on.

XL has 638mm stack. It’s not going to be £3.5k though (but complete build for not too much more than that should be possible).

Chainline….you’re not comparing apples with apples, the Geomatron is a custom 6.5K bike!

I’m your height. An XL Nukeproof Mega 290 should sort you out. It’s a cool bike with 150mm travel front and back.

6ft 3 ish here with 36 inside leg. I have a xl niner wfo, fits like a glove, they are short in the top tube though. I’m Herefordshire based if you want to sit on it 🙂 Also have a Turner sultan xl which also fits well. At no point did I feel I should have bought xxl. The sultan frames for sale.

What about a custom frame?

Starling Cycles Swoop, http://www.starlingcycle.com

I’m in talk with a chap who’s 6’9″ about building a frame.

I’ve recently got some Reynolds 853 custom downtubes made. These are longer as well as thicker and should allow me to build a frame with up to 550mm reach, maybe more.

I should also be able to do a custom build, with Fox suspension tuned to the bike and you requirements for your budget.

Should be an ‘S’ on the end of that link

http://www.starlingcycles.com 😛

Thank you.

Got a broken hand, so slightly addled on Codeine!

Another one here for a Mega 290 XL. Got one a few months ago and it’s plenty big enough and nice and solid. I’m 6′ 7″ and it’s plenty big enough for me. £2900 for the Pro.

Wookster, the 27.5 GeoMetron is a std bike that can be built for between £4k and £4.5k with slx/Hope kit. Of course you can spend more with flash kit.

The 29er is currently custom, but a std 29er is in the works…

HT on the XL GeoMetron is 150mm (500mm ST). 130mm on the L (470mm ST)

phutphutend – Member
What about a custom frame?

That could be a possibility I’ve never had a steel frame before

Chainline – Member
The 29er is currently custom, but a std 29er is in the works…

That could be interesting. I don’t suppose you know what the time frame of “in the works” I read the MBR review that was posted and it sounded interesting but at almost £3k for the frame its a bit out of my budget

HT on the XL GeoMetron is 150mm (500mm ST). 130mm on the L (470mm ST)

Were did you find the geometry for the XL? I can only see the L on the mojo website.

Thanks

Chainline, it’s a beaut of a bike, and the 29er sounds lush, but the £4.5k is not set up is it? Ideally Mojo want you to do the whole day set up package thing! So £6K+!

Still want one though!! 🙂

Wookster, the setup day is if you want to test everything! Different Bar widths, stem, kinds of suspension feel, wheels, brakes etc.
It’s also refundable if you buy the frame package etc.
You still get suspension set up as part of the std package based on discussion, parameters and an in person suspension setup if you ask and fetch it from Mojo. The day was(I think it still is £200)
So not £6k!!
If you are comfortable with the kind of tyres you want to use/brakes/have a preferred bar width etc then it’s about fit and suspension set up for you, how you want the bike to feel but much of the basics are done based on weight and a discussion of your riding style. In reality few of us are super aggressive shredders and Chris has/is building a knowledge base of riders/weights and setups of the bike to draw upon.

You can call and discuss the XL with Chris.

The frame and an X2 is £2350k. £3k, or specifically £3150 includes a tuned float x2, tuned float 36, and headset and for another £100 you get a Fox a Transfer post. So quite a lot more for £3k.

Blakec look to Eurobike at the end of Aug…

If you check out #geolution on social media you’ll see some teaser pics, the Proto DH bike with Jack Reading’s One Vision team has been out there all year, the 29 has been tested extensively now….

Head tube lengths don’t need to grow as much as seat tubes because taller riders can use wider and taller bars and stem spacers, whilst shorter riders are often battling to get the bars low enough due to big wheels and long forks.

There’s also some complicated stuff about body position – I think shorter riders usually ride taller and taller riders usually lower, when in the attack (descending) position. I’ve noticed that now I’m riding longer/lower/stacker bikes I stand more upright, which I think is to raise my centre of gravity so I don’t have to move so much to control the bike, whilst on my older bikes I had a lower more stable position because it was harder to keep the bike on course but easier to manoeuvre it.

6ft 6 and have a XXL Tallboy, but have just got a XL Nukeproof Mega 290 and to be frank, it’s a revelation!!!

Am getting some 40mm riser bars but still fits fine standard.

Chainline, if I wasn’t deeply in love with my Transition Smuggler ( because of the long reach, but handles brilliantly mix they’ve come up with ) and had a few quid I’d be on the phone now!! I’m thinking I’ve got few years to save up for my 40th though!! 8)

Bikes for tall people, and smaller people, but they fit tall people very well. XL now shown.

Head tube lengths don’t need to grow as much as seat tubes because taller riders can use wider and taller bars and stem spacers, whilst shorter riders are often battling to get the bars low enough due to big wheels and long forks.

This all over. I’m 6’5″ on XL size Nicolai’s and I have the stem pretty much slammed onto the headset (5mm spacer underneath) with a low rise bar. I rode with Chris Porter on Friday and he thinks the headtube on the XL Geometron is too long…..

The real issue is head tubes/front ends being way too high on longer travel/smaller size bikes. On Katie’s old extra small we were running a flat bar, negative rise stem and the lowest stack headset we could find. You want a low front end for climbing and weight on the front to descend.

6.5 ish too, ride an XXL Ice Cream Truck, which is just deliriously wonderful and a great fit (With some riser bars and a few spacers – HT is a wee bit short), perfect poop-weather bike.

Also have a. 2016 XL stumpy 29er for dusty trail days 🙂 This frame is actually a warranty replacement for the 2015 frame, which snapped above the top tube shock mount area. Apparently not the first in that size to do that.

Maybe why the new frame has that double split top tube thingy going on. Anyhow, big fat bloke give big fat thumbs up to the Stumpy, great bit of kit.

Simon, I think the L GeoMetron HT could be 10mm shorter too. However I would disagree that the front needs to be low for climbing, I’d argue the weignt distribution being in the right place is far more important.
My GeoMetron is running 40’s with a -2 angleset that adds 15mm to the top. So the HT is effectively 165mm but I can easily and comfortably climb ridiculously steep stuff as the pedalling position is so central (I also have longer chainstays) effectively the bike is sub 61deg but I get no wander or lift on stuff thats hard to walk up.

I’m also riding a bike a full size longer than we expected on what is already the longest bike. I ended up adding 15mm of spacers with the 20mm rise bar (Most GeoMetron riders have 15mm or more spacers under) before I fitted the 40’s. I think this is due to the fact the HA is so slack and thus the front is actually quite low.

Chris is riding the XL and he is only a shade over 6′ whereas in theory its designed for 6’5″ plus, that’s the main reason he thinks its a bit tall as he also tends to run anglesets which adds more height.

Bikes for tall people, and smaller people, but they fit tall people very well. XL now shown.

Thanks have been looking at the specs. very tempting

Chainline –

Some good points – however, the Geometron climbs very differently to any other bike I’ve ridden. I’m still trying to get my head around losing grip when I moved my weight forwards on climbing something steep and loose. A good point that the slack head angle lowers the front – not something I’d clocked.

However, Chris was wanting to lower the front/ bring the bars forward to get my weight distribution forward even on the Geometron. With conventional, short, geometry this is much more important (and that’s what we’re dealing with in this thread).

I have my bikes set up so that they’ll climb super steep stuff though – most people are walking long before I do. If the front end is high it limits how far you can get your weight over the front when climbing. Worrying about the saddle to bar position is really worrying about how the bike looks/rides on the flat – which (as Chris points out) isn’t where we ride mountain bikes. Once that bike is on an uphill slope the bars aren’t below the saddle anymore.

Descending, you have the seat dropped so again it’s no longer a factor – if your saddle has moved down 125mm (or more) you’ve space to get your weight low when you need it (and getting your ankles behind the pedal axles is what stops you going over the front not having a high bar.

Another 6’2″ dwarf here but my 6’6″ mate rides a large stanton HT with 150mm forks, riser bars but a regular stem, the saddle drop is less than 10cm.
OP How have you determined your saddle height? Started with .885 of your inside leg? I’ve reduced the drop on my bikes through 180mm cranks (5mm lower), cleats at the back of the slots (5mm ish), raising the front and using an fit calculator – note it takes a few weeks to adapt to each 5-10mm of change. Hope that helps.
Interestingly Nino Shurter seems to have a very modest drop, I’d say 6cm…

Simon, Its rather lower with a 27.5 front too (17mm in fact) , another reason Chris wants to get the bars lower 😉

Same climbing situation on a Jones I found due to the super short stays. True about the climbing, though no real need to get forward. What rear tyre, as I’ve not experienced that much and Chris tends to run semi slicks which won’t help.

Euro – Member
Same height Blakec and will soon be riding an XL Cotic RocketMax. It’ll be my first XL bike and my first with the new trendy geometry (and 29 foot wheels). Will probably do a shite e-review when it arrives early next week.

Blake, that ‘review’ can be found here if you’re interested. Cotic are doing the demos on the mainland at the minute – definitely worth a test ride if you’re close to one.

Simon, Its rather lower with a 27.5 front too (17mm in fact) , another reason Chris wants to get the bars lower
—–
What rear tyre, as I’ve not experienced that much and Chris tends to run semi slicks which won’t help

yes, of course. Rear tyre was a Rock Razor which won’t have helped.

Hi,

I’m looking for a new (to Me) bike, budget £2000 or so. I’m 6″4 with a 36 inside leg.

I’ve narrowed it down to a santa cruz bronston, transition scout, banshee prime or a new specialised stumpjumper either last year’s carbon or this year’s boosted one.

Any suggestions? It’s got to cope with bays out in the peaks, lakes and the odd uplift day.

Fellow lanky bastards. I have a 2014 Carbon Camber Evo Expert pimped with XO1 + Monarch RC3 and 2016 S-Works Enduro (also pimped) with Ohlins fork and tweaked geometry to slacken it that I’m considering selling to satisfy my Gear Aquisition Syndrome. Or, being neighbourly, simply happy to let anyone sit on for size. Gloucestershire.

How much much would you be looking for golo?

If it’s £2000ish I’m interested 🙂

For the Camber that’s close to the money. Not for the S-Works obvs… :D. Although if anyone can scratch up the cash, it’s almost exactly this years’s geometry just without the boost and glove box… And waaaay less money.

I should also say both are in pretty damn good condition.

The Camber has the current SL carbon wheels with 30mm internal width and quick pick up free hub (which is why I say close). Frame also takes 650+ up to 2.8″ tyres which makes a good climber an amazing one and loads of fun downhill. Could do a deal to include those wheels too….

Very likely to be able to find ways to fit your budget by fettling what’s in or out.