Rode my new Five for the first time last night.

Rear end was washing out when pushing hard.

Appreciate that the new bike will take some getting used to (i.e. rear end is very active) but never really suffered this on previous FS or HT with same tyres/pressures.

Is it likely to be

a. tyre (running Maxis Minion Front on the rear)
b. technique (only seemed to a happen on tight LH berms)
c. suspension action (i.e. not set up correctly)

On one occassion I actually pinched flatted in the berm which was interesting as ended up facing back up the trail!

This would suggest that pressure was too low (which should be grippier) and/or shock pressure way too low, hence travel bottoming out.

Cheers

thought this was going to be about colonic irrigation!

Too much shock pressure? Rebound set too fast? Weight further forward than you’re used to?

It was your first time out on a new bike, don’t be in any rush – give yourself time to get the feel of it before thrashing it too much. If it’s a brand-new bike, the shocks wont even have had time to bed in properly yet so don’t expect too much too soon.

If you’re putting power down when it happens, it could be caused by the suspension stiffening and washing because its less compliant. Its a symptom of single pivot, so aside from not pedalling, there’s not much you could do if that was the cause.

If your tyre pressure is TOO low, the tyre will roll over, which could cause it too.

That’s interesting, as it was most definitely when I was putting power down when pushing hard to stay with the guy ahead of me.

My last FS was a Marin so this has very different suspension action/feel.

I have a feeling it is something to do with the bike, as I run the same tyres/pressure on all my bikes and never really had this issue before.

Might stick a bigger tyre on out back and see how that goes, as I can run it lower for more grip.

Interestingly I also had a lot more pedal strikes last night than on the Marin, but then again that bike was was too high and was one of the reasons I bought the Five.

SO – if that’s a genuine issue it can happen on any system.

I’d guess it’s weight balance or too much pressure in the shock.

If you pinch flatted in a corner, sounds like your being a bit ambitious with your low tyre pressures, you say its the same tyres and pressure but is the rim the same?
Are you hitting the corners harder on the new bike?
Are you sitting in the middle of the bike or over the rear wheel more on the new bike?
Is this a similar position to your old bike?

New tyres?

Depends on the configuration of the system IMO.

Some squat under power (like my 5spot), some jack. Single pivot oranges are known to stiffen under power, that’s why some people like them since it makes them feel less soggy and more direct when putting down power.

I’m not saying that’s the cause here, but it might be, or part thereof. Food for thought and all that.

shorter stem, less pressure in the shock and softer compound black things with a little less pressure than normal….

If none of the above work have a can of monster and call yourelf Samuel Hill.

Rebound too fast on the rear shock.

wors – hahaha.

fieldmarshall – I had same thing happening last week on my Reign, turned out the rear tyre had picked up a slow puncture.

Not saying you have a puncture of course, just that it’s probably too low tyre pressure.

is the rear wheel central in the swingarm.

something about it only happening to the left sounds suspicious to me.

This sounds like a classic symptom of drinking too much Monster Energy – you have ‘got your Sam Hill on’ a bit too much.

But I think you might need to give the bike a bit more time as well. You might have been having an off day – I couldn’t corner for toffee on my DH bike at the weekend, normally it rails them.

Go for another ride and then think about tweaking the shock – I’d be very surprised if it was a fault with the frame and unless you’re using unusual tyres of other weird components, I think you’re the more likely cause than a new bike 🙂

Cheers for all the advice.

Overall, it sounds like I just need to get used to the bike and get it set up properly.

As I said previously, given the high BB on my previous FS, I’m used to being able to put the power down all the time. So will have to adapt.

I also expect that given it was my first ride, I was probably trying too hard and that my weight distribution (both longitudinally and laterally) was probably wrong for the new bike.

What did the last MBR review say “if you lack the technical riding skills……. the Five should be at the top of your wish list” –

So there was me hoping this bike would make me ride better.

(with hindsight the post title was probably not that well chosen! :-))

mine runs best with the pro pedal off on decents and tecy climbs , tried several makes , sizes of tyre , kenda nevegal 2.35 work best for me .

Need to adpat more to pumping and then Peaty-esq pedal squirts inbetween rather than just mashing the cranks everywhere (that’s what Marin’s are for :-P)

It’ll work, just let the bike come to you…

Oh yeah, never ever run pro pedal unless it’s a fireroad climb. It ruins the bike IMO – makes it fidgety and awkward…

I had the same sort of problem a little while ago on my Yeti ASR (single pivot).

I largely sorted it by slowing the shock rebound a bit and I know my tyre needs changing which I expect (hope) will restore the handling to as good as new.

I got a new bike a few weeks ago and it’s taken all that time to start liking it and stop over analysing it. I would have taken it back after the first few rides if I could. There is something to be sad for setting your bike up and then leaving it for a good few rides just get use it it then start tweeking.

running a front tyre on the rear hmmmm
and the rear is washing out!!!!!

Been running this setup (i.e. minion front on rear) for last couple of years after i read about it in a magazine review.

I’m sure I’m not the only one doing it.

Never been an issue before, but I’m open to any advice, so thanks.

Front minions on the rear are fantastic. Five’s are great and corner very well. Rebound in the shock. What toffee talk!

‘technique (only seemed to a happen on tight LH berms)’

There you go. We all have a good way and a bad way for turning. You hitting the brake a little? Off balance? Does it feel right when you go into it? Look at you not the bike.

I thought the point of running a front minion on the rear was to get the rear to drift more easily?
At least thats what I think I remember reading somewhere

I thought the point of running a front minion on the rear was to get the rear to drift more easily?
At least thats what I think I remember reading somewhere

That would be a pretty funny conclusion to the thread if true!

Yes really funny…….. given that I bought a new frame because I didn’t like the way the last one handled……. with a minion FR on the rear!!

Bugger. 😡

As I suggsted earlier and hinted at subtly by RHS No 2, I suspect it was bad technique/over enthausiasm.

It was just the severity of the wash out that was alarming, never experienced it before.

I’ve heard the same as James – a Minion on the back is a good way to get the rear end drifty. Strange though that it didnt happen on your other bike but then they were completely different.

Also, as it only seems to happen on LH berms, not RH berms I’d say it’s more technique than bike. That’s NOT a critisism, but just a case of getting used to the bike completely different characteristics compared to the Marin (lower BB height and single pivot).

I’d say stick with it, see how you go and then start working on a slightly different set-up? Maybe a shorter stem or a High Roller rear tyre?

Front minions on the rear. Lets think about that for a moment.

No. Seriously. Look at the side nobs. It rails the corner and provides grip. They are faster but the ability to brake is worse than the rear specific which has paddles for braking.

I love the combo

Try a Nevegal on the rear if you can borrow one…

I personally run a 2.1 HR or a SMB8 on the back with a 2.35 Blue Groove up front as I like it a bit drifty but really pinned down up front – I’ve found a Nevegal to really keep the back end in line…

To be honest, I had some issues with the rear end on the Marin which is one of the reasons I bought the Five. It always felt like it was struggling to grip and about to break traction, but never really quite did. I put this down to the design/suspension action (i.e. initial rearward path of wheel) but maybe it was the tyre/me after all.

I run the exactly the same set up on my P7 and have never had any issues with the rear end on that. In fact I am really really impressed with the handling of that bike.

The trail I was riding on Wed was one I do regularly on the P7 and am able to take it at full speed on that, without a hint of loss of grip. That was why I was so surprised that the Five didn’t seem to cope so well.

As for a shorter stem, I already have a 50mm on the Five!

I note that the Five seat tube angle is much steeper, i.e. 73 compared to 70 on the P7. Could that mean that my weight is further foward on the Five, hence loss of traction on the rear.

At the end of the day it was only the first ride and will take a few rides I’m sure to get used to it and find the right shock setup.

try not to brake in the corner.

dragging the brakes stiffens up the suspension on a single pivot. it also ruins the tyre gripping characteristics.

also i found with my patriot i had to run a fair bit of compression damping to stop it blowing through the travel. on linkage bikes i run much much less.

if you are pinch flatting you have gone through the travel probably so your problems are part technique and part bike setup i recon.

if its any consellation i`m shit at left handers too.

I defintely had too little air in (the shock) when I pinch flatted. Added a bit after fixing the flat with the shock pump.

I used to run quite a lot of sag on the old FS, so as to lower BB and slacken head angle.

Definitely need to run a lot more on the Five by the looks of it as it seems to go through the travel quite a lot.

Have read that the ’09 Five has a light compression tune. However, I am unable to adjust it on the RP 23, without getting it TFT’d.

Anyway it’s way too early for dramatic changes like that. Although have been really impressed with having stuff PUSH’d before.

I think you might be looking at this a bit too much. Its not the bike, its you. The five only has 5 inches of travel so its not going to make that much difference. They are low BB and rip singletrack.

Just go and ride it some more instead of looking at ‘compression’ tune.

Oh yeah, never ever run pro pedal unless it’s a fireroad climb. It ruins the bike IMO – makes it fidgety and awkward…

I descend better with Pro Pedal on 😳

I totally agree that I need to ride the bike and get used to it.

But the bike also needs to be set up properly.

There are a lot of people on here with a Five and thus I think its really worthwile learning from other peoples experiences/thoughts.

Whether I agree with them or not is another matter ( :-), but I really appreciate the feedback/replies.

only thing no ones suggested yet is the wheel build?

Is it tight and even?

Is the rim ‘core enough?

Whats the hub? anything designed to run a bigger axel will be stiffer even when run with a QR.

when i got mine i ran same tyres, same pressures, and rode familiar trails to really give myself a chance to like it. worked a treat ( despite all the bits i’ve changed on it since 🙂 ). having ridden HT for some time it took a little while to set the shock up how it felt right – low compression tune like yours. settled on 25% sag max, but noted that when i let all the air out the can, it didn’t go all the way down the shaft, so bear this in mind when you’re measuring.
i did feel right at home on the thing going down though – has made me quicker on the HT, though i don’t know that i’m that much quicker on the 5 than i am on the HT on our local trails now.
i’d look at rebound. adjust it until it’s stop on way-too-slow, then back it off. see how you go.

“Five seat tube angle is much steeper, i.e. 73 compared to 70 on the P7. “

And you say the P7 grips around it no problem? – AHHAAAA!

So it’s not that likely to be a suspension issue since the P7 has none. So maybe the P7 subtly positions your more over the back wheel because it’s slacker at the back. So maybe just move the saddle back on the 5 and get getlower and pushing your bum back more when carving turns.

Very interesting all this handling stuff.

Bear in mind seat angle won’t be measured with any sag so the seat will get a few degrees slacker the second you get on it…

What’s seat angle got to do with it? Were you sitting down around these LH berms where you lost traction and pinch flatted?

I wouldn’t worry about fiddling about with things and thinking too much.

You’ve only just got a new bike. It will ride differently to your old one and will take a few rides to get used to.

If it’s only happening on LH bends, it’s probably you – that doesn’t mean you have bad technique, just that you’re not used to the bike.

I’m always all over the place for a few corners when swapping between my prophet MX and PA and I ride them both all the time.

Give it a few rides. You don’t want to end up convinced the bike’s crap and hating it.