italian trains are relevant how?

HS2 is a business train which will only by used by the rich or people whose employers are picking up the tab to get them to London and back in a time not much less than the current infrastructure

Not about Italian trains, just pointing out that the part in bold is not necessarily true. If I’m using this option in Italy (and Switzerland/France) then it’s pretty likely I’d be using it in the UK as long as the prices are right, don’t you think? And I tend not to be unique in my choices.

Privatise the MOD. Whats good for the NHS and all that . . .

Welsh to be made language of commerce.

this is genius 😆

as long as the prices are right,

here’s a clue, they won’t be.

(trains in most of europe are heavily subsidized, ours are run to turn a profit)

question, do you use british trains now? – Hs2 won’t be any cheaper, and only a little quicker, if at all.

here’s a clue, they won’t be.

Really? What will they be then? And how did you find out, because I’d like to know what the prices will be like?
Here’s a clue, things which are too expensive don’t generally run at a profit if no-one uses them. With competition from cheaper non-HS lines and subsidised aviation, HS2 will not run at a profit so prices will have to be realistic or it fails.

All HS2 will do is turn the east and west Midlands in to dormitory towns for London, in the same way Peterborough went in the 90s. Just means somewhere else the locals can’t afford to live.

The better train links between northern cities does make sense. As does building affordable/socially housing on brown field sites closer to where people work.

@bails

Dagnabit, you found it!

Nah, it is a scheme where everyone is gay for three years. You get allocated a girl/boyfriend and at the end of three years you can choose to split or continue.

In order to reduce homophobia. *obviously* as the one who suggested it I get dibs on the blokes. 😀

BigButSlimmerBloke – Member

What will they be then? And how did you find out, because I’d like to know what the prices will be like?

i can’t see any reason why HS2 will be cheaper to use than current trains, if anything, there’ll be a premium.

, do you use british trains now?

Yes, travelling into cities I prefer trains. returning from London next month, guess how I’m getting home – go on, it’s a fun game, I’ll give you a clue as well, it doesn’t involve limiting the number of bags, turning up hours before departure or arriving in a different town to the one I live in. And I’ll be travelling first class, and it’s still cheaper than RyanAir.

If HS2 was 2 lines nine north to south (Edinburgh to Dover/chunnel and Glasgow to Southampton, with east to west at 3 or 4 places (Chunnel to Swansea, Hull to Liverpool, Edinburgh to Glasgow. Then I could see it as a real investment in national infrastructure.

As it is, it,s just a waste of cash pandering to the south east and draining investment from the rest of the nation.

i’m not even sure what i’m arguing about anymore.

oh, yes.

what MSP just said, that.

1. Nationalise railways
2. Introduce an industrial policy underwritten by bonds bought with QE
3. A dignity wage which any company wishing to pay out dividends will need to pay.
4. All public bodies required to pay living wage
5. Any business delivering public sector contracts must pay the living wage.
6. House building programme of social housing and mutual housing underwritten by bonds bought with QE.
7. Legal limits on executive pay.
8. Scrap free schools, independent schools, grammar schools, CoE, Catholic and all the rest, schools will now be comprehensive and under LEA.

In order to reduce homophobia. *obviously* as the one who suggested it I get dibs on the blokes.

No you don’t – you get a girl. Bisexuals get.. a dog. People into dogs get.. a cat. And so on.

i can’t see any reason why HS2 will be cheaper to use than current trains, if anything, there’ll be a premium.

Sorry, didn’t realise you needed everything explained to you. I never said HS2 (or any high speed trains) are cheaper than other trains, they do operate at a premium but some people are prepared to pay that premium providing that it’s not excessive. My Italian route is considerably more expensive by fast and comfortable train but will be sufficiently faster and more comfortable to justify the extra cash. But the amount of extra cash is finite and with cheaper rail and air options available there’s a limit to how much more I’d have been prepared to spend.

ok, that’s cool.

and as for policies:

stop buggering about with the national curriculum.

scrap school league tables.

I never said HS2 (or any high speed trains) are cheaper than other trains, they do operate at a premium but some people are prepared to pay

Like I said, it’s going to be a rich man’s train funded by the taxpayer. I think if it was going to cost a few billion, no one would object much. But £50 billion? And we can probably rely on that being £100 billion by the time it’s built, in 20 years time. £50 billion could revolutionise the local public transport systems and commuter rail networks in every major city in Britain in a fraction of the time it will take HS2 to be built. And that’s without even having to ask the question of why anyone needs to get from Manchester to London in less than the current 2 hours it takes.

Can’t believe so many people want to nationalise railways, have you forgotten how utterly cr*p BR were and what a dire state the railway infrastructure was in.

Multiple of pay so that the CEO earns, say, 30x the wages of the lowest-paid.

Nope…I’d set it more like 5x the pay of the lowest paid worker.

National Gay Service

I want to see this written into policy somewhere…make it happen Greens!

Nope…I’d set it more like 5x the pay of the lowest paid worker.

Hope your ready for a rather big reduction in taxes.

And that’s without even having to ask the question of why anyone needs to get from Manchester to London in less than the current 2 hours it takes.

are you really not paying attention?

In order for the other things to happen £50 billion could revolutionise the local public transport systems and commuter rail networks in every major city in Britain you need to remove the long distance and inter-city trains from the current network. If you want better train links you HAVE to start with HS2, phase 1 goes to Brum, phase 2 Sheffield Leeds Manchester, then scotland and Wales. Then connect the whole lot up to HS1 and Robert is your father’s brother, you can train (rather than fly) to pretty much everywhere in the UK and mainland Europe from anywhere to anywhere.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

And, you do know that it goes right through the stock broker belt in the SE, right? I mean anything that pisses off Col. cleftpallete-smythe (RET.) because the trains is going through his golf club HAS to be a good thing, doesn’t it?

1. All Parliamentary lobbying to be made public.
2. Lucrative private jobs for MPs, awarded for their patronatge whilst in power, to be tried as corruption.
3. Ban TTIP.

In short: reduce the power of the wealthy / big corporations to influence the policies of Government.

all good ideas in this thread, here is mine

All MPs are required to (as well as resident in area for 5yrs) show evidence of 6yrs continuous PAYE

this is to stop MP as a cushy job straight from the uni debating hall via internship

ok there are downsides to this, the ageism – yes you couldn’t get a job as an MP until 21 years old, or 27 for a graduate but this is still a lot younger than anyone in the HoC at the moment
What about SME business owners etc ? well you are more important to the UK than an MP so carry on generating wealth and jobs 🙂
what about Contractors? er, tough luck, go and get paid if you really want to be an MP that badly

actually I would ban internships across all sectors in the UK, they are a self-selection process for the highest wealth who can afford to work for nothing (see MPs, journalism, broadcast, fashion etc)

have you forgotten how utterly cr*p BR were and what a dire state the railway infrastructure was in.

right, because the only option is between privately run trains (run for profit rather than passengers) and a 1970’s version of BR…

Introduce 100% capital gains tax for property investments owned by foreign nationals. Future purchases to require EU citizenship.
Ban on government purchase (NHS, Councils, Government Departments, Armed Forces) of products from Nestle and Kraft.
Scrap HS2, rebuild all intercity routes to quad-track Bern Gauge standard, allowing use of double decker trains and bi-modal freight. Railways to be run under NFP scheme like Network Rail and East Coast.
Vignette for all foreign vehicles using our roads.
Dual A66, A69 & A1 along with a string of other neglected key routes throughout the country. Make roads ministers and mandarins live and commute along a single carriageway stretch until dualling completed.
Admit that heathrow and gatwick aren’t the solution and outsource our hub airport to somewhere miserable, in the middle of the sea with no other redeeming features. Schiphol springs to mind.
Ban religious instruction to the under 18s.
Sports equipment to be VAT free.
Datacentre air conditioning to be forbidden. So they want to be cooled? Put them in a barn!

nickc – Member
have you forgotten how utterly cr*p BR were and what a dire state the railway infrastructure was in.

right, because the only option is between privately run trains (run for profit rather than passengers) and a 1970’s version of BR…

We don’t have that either. Contestable markets anyone?

Can’t believe so many people want to nationalise railways, have you forgotten how utterly cr*p BR were and what a dire state the railway infrastructure was in.

Yep, they were rubbish. However now they’re privatized the state is actually paying more in subsidy than they did for BR. There’s a lot of state money going to fund foreign (often still nationalized) companies who’ve bought stakes in our rail network. If we return it to state control then the state has accountability, a nationwide procurement policy and thus a greater economy of scale.

this is to stop MP as a cushy job straight from the uni debating hall via internship

Do any do that? I thought it normally involved a few years as a Party researcher, then a SPAD, all on PAYE earnings, before being parachuted into a safe seat.

I’m all for the abolition of Tuesdays.

you need to remove the long distance and inter-city trains from the current network.

I don’t think they’re proposing that though. The old virgin (or whatever company is running them) ‘slow’ trains are still going to be there, and they’ll still clog up the network.

And in revolutionising local transport, I was talking about more than just trains, but proper integrated public transport which combines buses, light rail and the larger rail network into one system, rather than the deregulated shambles which currently exists. You know, like London already has. You could have that up and running in a few years in every major city for a fraction of the money spent on HS2.

you realise that in a couple of short hours we have more of a manifesto than UKIP managed.

we do need to address a couple of issues tho
1. anyone still backing HS2 has to go back and read the all the differing justifications used so far.
2. the two recommenders of national ID cards are to be escorted from the premises, the poster who wants to privatise Defence can handle that.

PJM1974 – you’re getting my vote. I ****ing hate Tuesdays. Which day are we having to replace it. I vote for an extra Sunday!

proper integrated public transport which combines buses, light rail and the larger rail network into one system, rather than the deregulated shambles which currently exists

I think tyne & wear are about to do just that with the local councils voting to change they way they oversee bus route funding. We might actually see a return to the 80s where the busses fed the trains and metro rather than try and compete against them

I don’t think they’re proposing that though. The old virgin (or whatever company is running them) ‘slow’ trains are still going to be there, and they’ll still clog up the network.

I’d be willing to bet they’d change the service – add more stops on the fast services or local services – to get people onto HS2. Makes sense.

Re BR – yes they were shit, but this isn’t the solution. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Publically owned utilities and transport don’t HAVE to be shite. They just often are. TfL for example works pretty well in reality.

I’d be willing to bet they’d change the service – add more stops on the fast services or local services – to get people onto HS2. Makes sense.

Sense? We’re talking about government transport policy here. Good luck with ‘sense’. Seen any evidence of it for the last 20 years?

Mine is very simple.

Less bureaucrats 😮

Get rid of as many as we can. They must not be fed but make to work …

The rest you can take care yourselves. i.e. remain in EU, out of EU, open border, close border, mass migration, anti-migration, satanic cult, love cult, mass orgies, God, gods vs science, capitalist, communist, obese, diet, NHS or private health care, trains, planes or cars, whatever school systems, you can be white, black, blue, pink, purple, alien, monster etc … I don’t care.

I just want less ZM bureaucrats – if you think carefully we are surrounded by this bunch of blood suckers.

If you get a reduction in the number of ZM bureaucrats you will see that life will certainly improve. Yes, you need some of them but certainly not as many as you see now and FFS try to deal with your problems yourself rather than blaming others.

😯

FEWER bureaucrats. More grammar education!

Sense? We’re talking about government transport policy here. Good luck with ‘sense’. Seen any evidence of it for the last 20 years?

More like commercial sense. They have to make their money back, so they have to get people using it.

proper integrated public transport which combines buses, light rail and the larger rail network into one system, rather than the deregulated shambles which currently exists

Indeed – I think the last time anyone (was it Tyne & Wear) managed this Thatcher got in and f***ed it over.
However, we do need to learn from Europe (rather than the septics) that public transport is a service and therefore needs subsidising because it allows people to get to work.

As to banning things meh e.g independent/Grammar schools. If the state system was up to scratch they would wither and die (or just be full of nobs who would otherwise clog up the state system) without needing to be banned.
More effective investment in young people’s education and opportunities too – not quite sure how but whatever we have now doesn’t seem to be working.

However, we do need to learn from Europe (rather than the septics) that public transport is a service and therefore needs subsidising because it allows people to get to work.

Exactly. Public transport with subsidised fares is as much an infrastructure necessity as roads, railways, power and water. Trouble is in this country people are so stupid they equate subsidies with ‘handouts’ and instantly think of scrounging doleys getting something for nothing. Unless it’s the nuclear industry of course, in which case they can have a blank cheque from the taxpayer and no one will bat an eyelid.

‘slow’ trains are still going to be there, and they’ll still clog up the network.

make your mind up, what is it you want? 😆

the slow “stop at every station” trains (ie the local intergrated service) that you want has to run on something. The idea of HS2 (and the other high speed lines) is to remove the congestion that is caused by running high speed destination to destination trains and local services on the same bit of track, the railway effectively currently runs on A roads, and it needs a motorway network

Plus, if we reduce the cost of public transport especially rail (In Germany you travel from Berlin to Munich nearly 400 miles, cost €30. which is now £23 quid.) then the price of accommodation in London for example might drop as folk could actually afford to commute.

And as part of my plan to two tier the Motorways I’d run the High Speed rail on the upper tier.