Well I didn’t get made redundant, Yeay! But have been demoted, had a drop in pay and it all sucks a bit.

But I have a new contract to sign and I’m not sure about the opting out part of the contract, basically they are saying that I have a 40 hour a week contract but I have to opt out of the working time directive, if I don’t then they will reduce my pay…

Is this legal? I always thought the opting out of the working time directive was always supposed to be a separate part of a contract, but perhaps things have changed?

I know its probably a quiet time of the evening for HR peeps but I’d just like to know what my situation is?

Regards

PePPeR

Sorry to hear that Rich, anyway as you know my experience in this field = zilch, but I hope it turns out OK for you!

Sounds like a crude attempt to constructively dismiss you, get an employment lawyer on it, there are plenty about. First you need to clarify if your previous job has been made redundant. You also need to ascertain the reason for demotion, it can’t just be financial.

I’m often on the other side of the coin, and I know the law doesn’t allow what is happening to you, if it had we’d have done it recently, to try and downsize.

Don’t put your faith in forums, get some proper advice, were you permitted a witness at your redundancy hearing? I did question this on the other thread, in these cases the devil is in the detail and the procedure and how it is followed.

Basically they’ve not made any us redundant, they’ve just demoted 3 of us and not made any of redundant.

We were offered witnesses but it seems like the MD copped out of making any of us redundant (his arm was being twisted by our US parent company) but if we all agreed he’d demote us all down slightly and hopefully our company will turn around over the next 6 months and things will look good again and he can sort us back out again.

This new contract, does it release you from the first, as in they don’t have to pay you redundancy if they sack you within the first year?
If so I would be very sceptical.

No still on continuous employment, so that’s not the issue.

I’m not an HR expert but have they made you redundant from your current role maybe and re-employed you in a different position?

I agree, do you have legal expenses cover with your household insurance. This is the sort of thing they will help out with. If not, bite the bullet and speak to a good employment lawyer before you sign anything. Will cost you a couple of hundred but worth it.

Cheers

Danny B

Rich, sending a message to a good friend who is a very successful employment lawyer as I type this, on your behalf… No expert myself, but it doesn’t sound like it has been well thought through by your employer, and I would say they’ve committed some very basic errors, on the assumption you’d all be happy to work stupid hours per week just to keep your current pay packet.

I would expect if you opt out, and you left, you’d have a case for constructive dismissal, though don’t quote me on that yet…

I am not in HR but this sounds very dodgy.

The opt out statement basically states that you are willing to work in excess of 48 hours a week averaged over 17 weeks. More detail here:

https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours/weekly-maximum-working-hours-and-opting-out

Given that the average working time for most full time employees id 37.5 hours your employer seems to be expecting a lot from you. However you are best placed to judge the state of the company and whether things are likely to pick up over the next year.

As I understand it, you can’t be required to opt out of the Working Time Directive.

Theoretically, you also can’t be required to sign a new contract – your old one should still be honoured. I’d not be just accepting a demotion and lower rate of pay.

Oh, and http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/made – (31) should be of particular interest.

Cheers Aidy, that was just what I needed to know.