Just a small but public ‘well done’ on the trails at QECP, its changed massively and for the better in the short time i’ve been riding there this year.

The longstanding downhill switchbacks are still there and still fun, these should always be preserved and the new downhill switchbacks at the finish are great with a short sharp steep and rocky final descent into the last berm, superb.

The newly cut singletrack section through the woods near the top had me grinning from ear to ear, all things considered the climb fest that is the start is now well worth it for what follows.
Its not the longest trail, those who ride the 20-40k Welsh trails would probably sneer at it but the fun factor and features packed into it is great.

I reckon its probably long enough now to do a small one day gravity enduro, obviously the stages would be short (approx 1-2 mins each) but i reckon theres enough riding there now to put together 5 of these stages.
Have practice in the morning and race in the afternoon or would the owners object to something like this?

Again, many thanks….spent an enjoyable hour over there on wednesday evening after work.

Second that, QE2 Collective have done a great job.

It certainly is great.
It would have to be dry for any racing to be held there – some of the new sections would suffer badly with a lot of traffic in the wet.

a short sharp steep and rocky final descent into the last berm, superb.
Pity the numpties have cut a (rubbish) new line to the right of the rock steps. Grr.

Love the trail, so does the other half, but the last little chalk step section is in my opinion completely out of place within the context of the trail. The rest of the trail is just about red grade and that one little bit is so much ‘techier’ than any of the rest of it, especially in the wet. I apprecite that it is there to slow people down before they enter the shared use trail at the bottom but some sort of chicken line would stop people either crashing on it like my wife did the other week (wet chalk steps, Rocket Rons!) or stop them walking down/creating their own lines as most people I see riding it do.

The rest of the trail is just about red grade and that one little bit is so much ‘techier’ than any of the rest of it

I’m sure it only appears that way (much techier). Once you’re on it it’s fine. My 10 year old rode it ok.

I rode it for the first time in months last Sunday. Hadn’t ridden the new bits before [lumberjack?] and had loads of fun there perhaps also because it looks like it’ll be bike carved rather than man made which is something I really like. Anyway, enjoyed it so much so I’m going up there again tonight. QE is quite short so for me loses it appeal after riding too much there but then after a little respite it’s awesome to return there to ride some awesome flowy trails. Well done to all

hi! nice feedback. those rock steps were originally by Fergus and myself with Scott and others too of course. i pushed for a chicken line then, but decision was made that it’s ok without. i am still worried about accidents there and would feel bad about any (er legally it’s at ridden your risk yadda yadda).

in our defence, i’d say 90% feedback has been positive about that area, you are right we want to slow people down and give them a challenge. getting that right is hard. this is anecdotal but my brother who hasn’t ridden off road for 10 years rode it first time last weekend (on a good bike, dry) if that means anything! in wet on a hardtail, with slimy clay in your tyres, it can be very different i know.

the white chalk we put alongside the rocks (intended more as a lane marker, not to be ridden) has been pushed away so we have a muddy bank alongside. also riders tend to brake on it, not as i say to people, brake before and after, like any tech obstacle. so we do have a problem. #1 is it’s only real tech feature without a chicken line!?

So a few ideas i’m mulling over (just my personal thoughts not representing the group here!)

1) more (properly embedded) rocks to widen the top part and give a straighter line into the last berm?
2) anchoring trail (stopping riders going off line) by fencing/blocking in the right hand side??
3) an alternative ending to trail that comes off earlier to the carpark missing the last berm. problem with this is first time riders may not know about steps until they get there and it’s “too late” 😉 and it creates a new exit facing the existing one.
4) Originally i thought about going further along from top of steps, around a tree further on the bank and joining back to final straight, problem then is rejoining the berm colliding with others coming down fast over rocks.
5) perhaps just a better way to walk down the bank for those who don’t feel up to riding it yet?

the ground here is thicker (for QE) soil, we can’t put chips or something small down it’d get washed off. we’re not supposed to surface the trail anyway (red, natural as possible), the rocks were just intended to solve a problem of having a muddy steep bank at that point!

i’m not sure if i’m supposed to do this here and can’t guarantee your ideas will be taken up but if anyone has suggestions i’d be interested to hear.. i’m not sure what’s best!

I was there last night and it was a joy to finish with a light layer of dust on the bike instead of piles of mud.
I say keep the last steps as they are, if you can make it down the stuff prior to it you shouldn’t have a problem.

Before I start can I just say this is my and my mates opinion, im not looking to criticise the builders or take away from the sterling work they’ve done.
I know the older trails in QECP quite well, so was expecting big things of the newly added bits. Went up there on the 26th August (Sunday) after what has been a fair amount rain the previous day or two. Picked up the start of the new bit right at the top of the park, where it cuts across one of the main tracks. So turned left and then parallel to the main path weaving through the trees, yes liking this, esp when it dries out a bit. Continued via the switchbacks slightly warily due to the presence of wet + chalk + green, across the other side and then UP! Hate the climb up there, but the reward is pretty fun. Agree with comments about the chalk step, can see the potential to get it wrong quite easily (esp when wet / muddy) and a chicken run is needed.
Then back across the main path again and UP and up again, quite enjoyed that as its nicely technical (wasn’t too pleased to meet up with a mother and son riding down it though!). This continued for quite a while and then it levels out, but never felt that we got the reward for the climb after. Just didnt seem to flow and descend as much as Id have liked, seemed to weave too much and wander unnecessarily round trees, thus introducing more roots! The final plummet towards the old rooty climb parallel to the A3 waqs gone, disappointed! That climbs is always a bugger! A little further along the next section off to the right was pretty good and the final climb up to the top where we started was good too.
Overall I was a little disappointed, but would like to go again when its dried out significantly (our “summer” probably hasnt helped in this respect at all). I can see some sections becoming very boggy if continued use over the winter combined with rain and frost.
Plus the cafe didn’t have their lovely vennison burgers!
I appreciate these have been cut with little or no budget, but perhaps a little hardcore here and there might help stabilise and control further erosion?

Gotta be dry (as possible) up there. It always was a nightmare in the wet (roots) but now there’s extra bog to cope with, especially on the new start climb.

Cafe change is a huge disappointment. I go home after a ride now, whereas before I would’ve gone for a bacon roll or lemon drizzle cake.

Agreed. Like I said I’d like to go back when it was a lot drier, it was certainly improving later in the day after some sun and warmth. The green chalk berms scare me though. 😳
The millionaire shortbread was rather nice though!

Gunz, that’s exactly what most of us said. most of my ideas create more problems than they solve? just secure the bank as best we can and leave it?

here’s us right after building that bit whenever that was, April? So some of you can see how it’s worn in already. You wouldn’t think such a little thing could get panic breaking and fear, but it does!

(Scott on left looking concerned, Craig, Rupert, me on right looking smug).

bigyinn, fair enough, sounds like you did it wrong order though, very much designed to start at visitor centre and end at the steps, please give it another go that way some day! yeah not planning to surface the red trail, but a fun blue may be coming with a chip surface.. it doesn’t really get boggy as little soil, bits fill up with water though! drainage is ongoing problem as the clay soil clogs the pipes.

mattbee most of my post was aimed at you and your OH i guess?

I went down there for the first time last week and thought it was spot on.
The climbs weren’t too bad but had some rewarding descents after them. Most of it seemed to flow pretty well and struck the right balance between technical and non-technical stuff.
The biggest issue for me was turning up on a singlespeed, it was a bit of a struggle! Once the proper bike came out, it was a whole load better.

We did a 90 mile round trip to QECP and the only thing I’d change in future is that I’d use it as part of a longer ride round part of the SDW, it’s probably a bit too far to justify the trip just for the park itself.

wisepranker there are lots of wise to extend this trail, next time you’re down get one of us to show you! someone will probably be around at weekends. both inside and outside the park with quite short links too. not going to say too much here obviously, maybe some day they’ll even become official..

I have to say, having ridden in the area for over 20 year, the collective have done an amazing job. There’s nothing like it for miles around. I have come off on that last berm as well, thought I’d broken my arm at first, the rocky section doesn’t seem to line up very well with the berm. But it was in the wet and i am a crap rider 😉

that’s what happens when you build the berm first! you are not crap, in the wet, it is tight, i still can’t decide if this is a “bug or a feature”. it forces you to slow down at the end (good?) but feels like it suddenly needs a bmx to get around (bad?) hehe.

burt you’re not the guy with the red bike and really hard tyres are you?

No that day I was riding a blue Bfe. Amusingly, once I’d stopped blubing, I looked up to see another rider grinning at me in the car park,. he had blood running down his legs and had come off in the same place.

😯 yeah see this is not what we want. feeling dangerous = fine, being dangerous or having rider after rider stacking – not fine. it was passed by inspection (CTC inspection?) so really not sure.

would like to set a video camera up and really see what’s going on heh. maybe sit by end on busy day and watch. are you hitting the last fence, going over the little left hand kicker into fence?

Analysing it afterwards I reckoned I had gone over the rocks a little screwy and because it was wet, went into the berm square, then the front slid down the berm and i smacked into one of the stakes that sticks up. I’ve not ridden the last bit since so can’t compare it to the dry.

those rock steps were originally by Fergus and myself with Scott and others too of course. i pushed for a chicken line then, but decision was made that it’s ok without. i am still worried about accidents there and would feel bad about any

I don’t think this is an issue if I’m honest. If you get too worried about safety then where does it stop? Netting at lower end of berms, guarding to side of table tops?! It’s always been a trail for experienced riders and I don’t think this is beyond a half decent mountain biker which the trail is aimed at. There is however a trail developing to the left I think from memory which will become the faster smoother route rendering these steps obsolete. perhaps a few signs to raise awareness of a dangerous section would be better?

more (properly embedded) rocks to widen the top part and give a straighter line into the last berm

What’s wrong with a bit of technical riding to get into the berm. It’s not meant to be an easy course is it? I think leave as it is as it still flows if you get it right.

anchoring trail (stopping riders going off line) by fencing/blocking in the right hand side

Noticed lots of this on existing/early sections, people going for easier quicker routes. Not helped by Strava probably. I can appreciate some areas are difficult or boggy so people go around these areas widening the trails but from what I’ve seen you guys have maintained a lot of areas mitigating these issues.

Wisepranker – my friends said that if I hadn’t have taken them out and about they would have been pretty disappointed with park if that was the only thing they had done. That said they still enjoyed it.

I think the collective have done an awesome job taking it much further than the original crew. It’s a shame that the cafe isn’t up to standard as the park is now attracting a lot of attention from MTBers due to press features and word of mouth etc and it would be good for the entire experience to be just as good.

I have only ridden it once since the work was completed, but please dont change the steps. Its the only bit of tech riding on the course I can remember that was a challenge and it makes it interesting. If its meant to be a red route, IMO thats the only part that makes it red. Everything else I remember on there is rollable easily by even beginner MTBers, and if it werent there, then its most definitely a blue route.

serious Q though: does having a chicken line reduce your enjoyment of the course? if the more techy line is still there for you, even if that takes longer to ride, does that feel silly somehow? or is this “pandering” to strava users? (i use strava btw, but it comes 2nd to making a fun course). i feel the danger is “hey, we can all ride it, what’s the problem”, whilst half the new riders are hurting themselves. on the other hand, can never please everyone can you.
do you want the rest of the course harder? 😀 perhaps if/when a blue is there this would make more sense too.
if there’s a stake in the way that needs chopping/padding/moving.

i just spotted my terrible pun above, sorry.

The rocky section is good, i managed it on a 140mm FS and got round the berm ok so i dont think people necessarily need smaller bikes or the berm altering, it was dry though and i run a super tacky MAXXIS on the front….chicken lines should be left well alone, they’re a good option in the wet and even on a dry ride not everybody wants to be a hero so it gives people options.

I also like the rocky drop in mid way round to a series of berms, dont know what you’d call that bit?!, pretty steep though….a few more bits like that would be good….no more tabletops though, there’s loads of them already!….they can sometimes spoil the flow of a good section.

The roots on the latter half of the trail are awesome in the dry, you can really feel the bike working and also have to keep your eyes peeled and pick the line carefully, not much fun in the wet though i admit….still surprises me that QECP doesnt drain better, its a hill after all, you’d think water would run off and just pool at the bottom sections but it only takes a few days of rain to make it almost unrideable!

To be honest I would like a black run but that’s just me. Strava shouldn’t dictate course design at all. A chicken line is fine providing that it is the slower detour that they are mean to be. Brighton Big Dog has a massive bomb hole but uses a chicken line to the side, the cjhicken run was 2-3 seconds quicker!

that’s exactly what i was getting at, chicken lines should not be shortcuts for strava users, they should be there for less confident riders?

deviant, that’d be (unavoidable) drop in Snakes & Ladders, or maybe in the gully just above the old snakes where it’s fast and loose and loads of people crash. and i agree more small log drops and maybe fewer tables (just because i still can’t ride tables properly haha).

edit: maybe you mean the blind lip after Big Berm going into the Left-Right-Left, yeah i love that bit 🙂

OK guys just seen this post (took me ages to read!!)

To start with the rock steps aren’t chalk (Smiff You put them in didn’t you notice? 😆 )

It’s Granite stone and the grip on it is not that bad (touch it you know you want too)

We have been working on the trails for 11 months now, is still can’t believe how much we have done.

Roots are good! there’s allot of sanitized mountain biking around these day. it add to a challenging trail.

The trail is still short we know that but it is 2.5km longer than 11 months ago. there are plan for extensions but need to get them approved and dug of course.

There are also plans to upgrade the purple trail to a blue trail sanitized really fun for kids and beginners.

As for racing there will be at last two race in the park next year to add to the one we had this year.

Any Questions or if I haven’t answered any question about please ask again.

P.S the trails were done with a £0 buget so far.

It’s not just newbies or lesser riders though. My wife will happily ride the rest, has ridden alps, molini and most of the UK trail centres but having had a pretty brutal otb faceplant on that section won’t ride it now. Any other bits of the trail are tame enough that simply going a bit slower will let you ride them but that bit doesn’t give you the option. There’s a split option on the first climb so a precedent has been set, just make the chicken line boring and slower. Doesn’t mean you riding gods have to use it.
I also want to say that is not meant as a dig at the collective, the work you guys have done there is awesome. It’s just that one little bit that isn’t as wonderful as the rest of your work in my mind.

Sorry matt are you talking about the step? If so a chicken line For steps or the all of the new finsh section?

Just the steps, although to be more precise its the tightness of the berm at the bottom of them that gives her the willies.

yeah we’ll have to do something about that Scott, it’s the lack of runout AND bindness on approach that’s scary. not much margin for error there. it’s not that it’s too hard, it’s that it’s so unforgiving if you get it wrong – you end up over the berm and kicked into the final fence!

all options are quite hard – move bottom berm to the right (remove small left kicker), change angle of steps, make steps much wider at top to give different approach, putting a whole new line along around (there is some spare bank further along?).

i presume this is everyone’s problem? (with that bit i mean).

I’m now on the list of things to look at matt. Thanks for pointing it out. Any usefall comments like this are a great help.

You’ve hit the nail on the head there Smiff. Scott, nice to know you’re listening. Just need to arrange some midweek work parties so I can lend a hand; I work every weekend!

Ok, having read what others have said, Im going to reserve judgement on the course until i’ve ridden it in the dry.
Like I said, as it started to dry out it improved (and I rode the steps at the end). Certainly the roots aren’t a problem in themselves, but wet muddy off camber roots (on the day I was there) spoilt the flow because you couldnt get the grip when it was needed.
I’ll be back. Coming from the IOW means a ferry and then a train, so its not something I can ride regularly.

Trust me bigyinn that nothing new. Qe gets very muddy in the winter and periods of heavy rain. It always has, if you can believe it, it was a lot worse before we started patching up the old trail.

My best advice to anyone is if its been rain lots or its winter put some mud tyres on. I like mudx for the park but some of the other locals prefer something a bit bigger like a swamp thing.

Hope this helps not much we can do about the mud apart from keep patching up the trail though the winter.

Mud Tyres? Mine havn’t been OFF the bike since March FFS

I have been running slicks for the past month, you want to get yourself to Qe its bone dry 😀

Why not put a split in the last 20meters? Where the last leg of the final drops runs along parallel to the car park, just before it turns and drops. Put a straight on section and feed it onto the fire road , below where the original trail popped out.

Angle it up right at the end to kill the speed to stop people wanging out into walkers.

Apart from that , and the walkers who insist on walking up the new berms , its really good now.

I’ve ridden the red route a few times now. The first time was in the dry and great fun, on Fire XC pros. Second time was on the same tyres in the wet and really not much fun, it felt like I’d forgotten how to ride a bike. Third time was in the wet on mud x’s and I loved it, I’d never tried mud tyres before and can see the point now.

The work you’ve done there is great. I enjoyed the whole lot, the only bit I’ve been struggling with is the uphill switchbacks but I’m sure that is just my technique, or lack there of.

I’m glad the final long decent is still there, fast and off camber in places. I can see how some would not like the rocks at the end but as long as they stay the same a chicken line sounds like a good idea if people are getting into difficulties. I have friends who are getting into mountain biking and thinking about I wouldn’t recommend that line to a new rider.

Keep up the good work, I will have to head for a dig day soon.

Sound like a potential STW rideout / dig day needs organizing ? I’m sure the QECP collective would appreciate the assistance.

scottfitz – Member

I have been running slicks for the past month, you want to get yourself to Qe its bone dry Wasnt much fun nearly 4 weeks ago!!