I do 10-15 hours cycling / week and 2 strength training sessions a week. PT chap surprised me last night when he said I should be consuming 2grams / kg. In my case that is 146 grams.

That is a lot of protein and there is no way I get that amount from my daily diet.

Breakfast Porridge + milk = < 20 grams
Lunch = Chicken breast / Salmon = 30 grams
Main meal = < 40 grams
Sugary crap = 0 grams

Has anyone else who puts in a fair few hours per weel looked into this and decided that you do get enough from your diet or you don’t and therefore supplement?

Quick look back through MFP had me up about 120g easy, scrambled eggs, milk, cheese, meat etc. those were smallish portions too.

I had this a while ago. now have 2-3 eggs for breakfast as well as my porridge

It obviously depends on metabolism (no hard and fast rules) however when I used to do that much exercise and didn’t consume enough protein I actually lost muscle mass and my performance decreased.

The two best routes to protein supplementation can be in the form of protein shakes / whey powder (not “muscle gainer”, that contains carbs as well) and eating extra meat. The first option is the most economically viable, but just make sure that you’re buying protein from a reputable source (no Chinese rubbish).

In my opinion, 2gs protein per KG is a lot, and would be the intake that someone wanting to ‘bulk up’ should be taking. For general maintenance and post-exercise recovery, I’d say your intake is about right, but its when you consume that protein that matters. A decent quality protein blend with some low GI carbs straight after your ride does wonders.

increase your intake and if you get constipation you are taking too much.

From the posts above, I get the impression it is a concious effort to make sure you are eating meals with a decent amount of protein, otherwise, it seems quite easy to fall short.

2 PT sessions / week + 10 – 15 hours riding and I have lost nearly 4kg in 3 months. Not want I want as the PT sessions are supposed to be strength training. Dead lifts, bar squats …

Would like to build lean muscle on the quads rather than slim down even more.

In my opinion, 2gs protein per KG is a lot, and would be the intake that someone wanting to ‘bulk up’ should be taking.

Agreed.
1.5g/kg would be a more normal amount for bike cycle training.

Would like to build lean muscle on the quads rather than slim down even more.

That might be more easily achieved bulking then cutting.
You also need to make sure you are getting adequate carb/fat intake, as if you are falling short on those your body will burn protein/muscle as fuel.

That might be more easily achieved bulking then cutting.

Sorry, but I don’t quite follow?

You also need to make sure you are getting adequate carb/fat intake, as if you are falling short on those your body will burn protein/muscle as fuel.

Rides are currently Zone 2 with a weekly Zone 3 interval session thrown in. For my zone 2 2hrs 20 mins commute each way to work twice a week, I just use water in the bottles. Trying to avoid sugary drinks on the bike and tune the body to burning fat rather than glycogen. I could be doing this all wrong mind!

tune the body to burning fat rather than glycogen. I could be doing this all wrong mind!

Do you have fat to burn?

Do you have fat to burn?

Haha. Now it’s been pointed out to me, I’d say no.

yeah, so why try and burn it!!
Glycogen is wonderful stuff, burns nice and quickly and easy to replenish.

There is some very good reading in the feed zones books on the subject of eating/using/refueling well worth a read

After 2 – 3 years of winter training for Elite XC racing I have also addressed this issue this year.

In past years I have lost weight and become very run down by mid January. Winter training consists of 13 – 18 hours weeks on the bikes with lots of intervals as well as some gym sessions, racing CX and then the usual demands of working full time.

Like you I was having porridge for breakfast however I feel this is where the issues lays.

I train in the evening after work and don’t get home till 8ish, soon after getting home I eat a good quality meal made prior to getting home but this often didn’t have enough protein, I would then essentially starve myself until lunch of any protein and even then it would be a marginal amount.

So this year I have started using MyProtein Whey. I don’t have it everyday but use it as and when required and try to add it to “normal” foods. So for dessert last night I had natural yogurt with some fruit and nuts and then a spoonful of Chocolate whey, ok it doesn’t taste great but gives me an additional 20 grams.

I also then look to get some protein in every morning so that can be through scrambled eggs on toast, French toast and fruit, adding a scoop of chocolate whey to my porridge or muesli. Then when training is intensified look at boiling some eggs before work and having one with your lunch.

Its all about making an effort to actively get the protein in, I have found this has really helped my recovery, its maintaining my weight a little better and I am feeling better in myself.

Hope that’s helps a little.

yeah, so why try and burn it!!
Glycogen is wonderful stuff, burns nice and quickly and easy to replenish.

Noted and thanks for pointing out. For some reason I hadn’t considered it. 😳

After 2 – 3 years of winter training for Elite XC racing I have also addressed this issue this year.

In past years I have lost weight and become very run down by mid January. Winter training consists of 13 – 18 hours weeks on the bikes with lots of intervals as well as some gym sessions, racing CX and then the usual demands of working full time.

Like you I was having porridge for breakfast however I feel this is where the issues lays.

I train in the evening after work and don’t get home till 8ish, soon after getting home I eat a good quality meal made prior to getting home but this often didn’t have enough protein, I would then essentially starve myself until lunch of any protein and even then it would be a marginal amount.

So this year I have started using MyProtein Whey. I don’t have it everyday but use it as and when required and try to add it to “normal” foods. So for dessert last night I had natural yogurt with some fruit and nuts and then a spoonful of Chocolate whey, ok it doesn’t taste great but gives me an additional 20 grams.

I also then look to get some protein in every morning so that can be through scrambled eggs on toast, French toast and fruit, adding a scoop of chocolate whey to my porridge or muesli. Then when training is intensified look at boiling some eggs before work and having one with your lunch.

Its all about making an effort to actively get the protein in, I have found this has really helped my recovery, its maintaining my weight a little better and I am feeling better in myself.

Hope that’s helps a little.Most helpful and I aside from your extra hours, I do see very similar parallels. Breakast is always tricky as cooking up scrambled eggs at 6am before hoping on the bike takes time and I need my shut eye. Will pick up some MyProtein to try.

I have the High 5 Recovery, but whilst I used to glug the stuff down like it was going out of fashion, I am now aware of just how much sugar it contains. I appreciate you need to replenish glycogen, but can you get away with this stuff or does the body still have to deal with a massive insulin rush when you consume 60 grams of it post ride?

Sorry, but I don’t quite follow?

It’s easier to build muscle when you regularly provide the body both excess calories and protein – this causes you to bulk up and gain the muscle you want, but also a bit extra unwanted weight.
You then drop the calorie intake but keep protein high preserving your new muscle mass but cutting the unwanted fat

For my zone 2 2hrs 20 mins commute each way to work twice a week, I just use water in the bottles. Trying to avoid sugary drinks on the bike and tune the body to burning fat rather than glycogen. I could be doing this all wrong mind!

That is not a wrong thing to do, but at 4x per week probably being slightly overdone. Maybe do two rides like that and 2 fuelled. Or use water for the first hour and energy drink for the 2nd.

Haha. Now it’s been pointed out to me, I’d say no.

Everyone has loads of fat to burn, even with a very low body fat %.

I’d be looking at your total calorie intake.
At 73kg, including your z3 intervals you are probably burning 600kcal/hr on the bike. 12.5hrs x 600 = 7500kcal. Add your two PT sessions and you are looking at ~9000kcal per week or 1285kcal/day on exercise. Sticking your weight into a BMR calculator along with average height/age came to a BMR of 1670kcal/day.
This leaves you needing ~2950kcal/day, which from what you’ve posted it doesn’t look like you are getting close to.

to avoid sugary drinks on the bike and tune the body to burning fat rather than glycogen.

should point out that you don’t have to tune anything, your body knows how to burn fat lol

should point out that you don’t have to tune anything, your body knows how to burn fat lol

I’m sure you’ve been told this before, but the body DOES adapt to favour burning fat during low-mid intensity exercise. Until it has been taught to do this it will favour burning glycogen.

It’s easier to build muscle when you regularly provide the body both excess calories and protein – this causes you to bulk up and gain the muscle you want, but also a bit extra unwanted weight.
You then drop the calorie intake but keep protein high preserving your new muscle mass but cutting the unwanted fat

Ok. Got it.

That is not a wrong thing to do, but at 4x per week probably being slightly overdone. Maybe do two rides like that and 2 fuelled. Or use water for the first hour and energy drink for the 2nd.

That’s a decent suggestion. I’ll give that a try.

Everyone has loads of fat to burn, even with a very low body fat %.
I’d be looking at your total calorie intake.
At 73kg, including your z3 intervals you are probably burning 600kcal/hr on the bike. 12.5hrs x 600 = 7500kcal. Add your two PT sessions and you are looking at ~9000kcal per week or 1285kcal/day on exercise. Sticking your weight into a BMR calculator along with average height/age came to a BMR of 1670kcal/day.
This leaves you needing ~2950kcal/day, which from what you’ve posted it doesn’t look like you are getting close to.

My wife always tells me I don’t eat enough. She is probably correct as I have never had a massive appetite. With current diet and not having energy drinks on the bike or post cycling recovery drinks I will be under the 2950 kcals/day.

I’m sure you’ve been told this before, but the body DOES adapt to favour burning fat during low-mid intensity exercise. Until it has been taught to do this it will favour burning glycogen.

Now obviously I could be wrong, it’s been 15 years since I published papers in the field of energy metablism, but when I was a lad carbohydrate oxidation only accounted for 10-15% of energy production in low intensity exercise so there is no need to tune the body to use fat as it already does it. As you increase your exersice intensity the body uses more glucose to fuel your muscles. Low glucose levels in moderate to high intensity is detrimental to performace.