Yeeeeess… its been at least 24hrs since the last coffee thread so we are due another one!

A colleague of my cam back from Hols where one of these was installed in his room:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Coffee-Tea-Espresso/DeLonghi-EC-680-M-Premium-Coffee-Machine/B00EUWJFB4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500891898&sr=8-1&keywords=ec+680.m

He swears a massive improvement on Nespresso, so much he wants to buy/bin respectively with immediate effect.

Is this a consensus? I’m low on capsules so before I buy some more…

I had a Krups 15 bar just the same as that one.
It was far better than nespresso.
No comparison really. (Other than it being a lot more work)

Just use a cafetiere.

Eco friendly innit.

Nespresso

tastes like nespresso

It’s potentially an improvement on Nespresso but you have to out the work in to understand what you are doing. Can also be much worse than Nespresso.

Used one, milk steamer is a PITA (you realise why they use semi skimmed very quickly) but otherwise good results. Needs cleaned more than Nespresso and more work to set up as stated.

Depends if you like the convenience or can live without it.

Had one and was happy for a few days then found every time I created an espresso the milk wand leaked all over the shop. Took it back pronto.

I have the EC680. Whilst I like its ease of use and grind my beans etc, it isn’t really a “proper” espresso machine

It generates pressure by using a tiny discharge hole in the porta filter, and the crema is a result of high pressure coffee hitting the basket.

I believe proper machines generate pressure by the coffee being properly tamped and the crema is a result of this and some other stuff that I don’t really know about.

Well thats saved me £182…

One if the joys of proper espresso is sitting in the afternoon heat while a nice waiter/waitress brings it to you, and you can sip it while watching the world go by and the sun go down. Replicating that at home on a wet Wednesday in Barnsley* is missing the whole point of the thing…

*insert dreary British market town of your choice here

It generates pressure by using a tiny discharge hole in the porta filter, and the crema is a result of high pressure coffee hitting the basket.

I believe proper machines generate pressure by the coffee being properly tamped and the crema is a result of this and some other stuff that I don’t really know about.

Gaggia have started doing this, the Classic comes with a ‘crema device’ single hole basket which belongs in the bin and should be replaced with a proper double basket.
At least the classic has a machined chromed brass group head and portafilter, that delonghi will not.

Kryton57 – Member

Well thats saved me £182…

That must be full rrp. I bought the machine above for £135ish from Currys.
I really like the results and I think I prefer a little bit of faff over the instantaneous (and slightly wasteful) pods.

I’m still experimenting to get the best out of it, and it’ll have paid for itself in no time since the urge to buy coffee when out and about is almost completely gone.

Full disclosure – I don’t have the educated palate to fully discriminate like others claim to do, but I am fussy all the same.

He swears a massive improvement on Nespresso, so much he wants to buy/bin respectively with immediate effect.

If he’s throwing it away, I’ll take it off his hands to install at work.

What Jimjam says,

Good mix of not using stupid pods and retaining a bit of a Barista feel..

Results are fine for my current level of coffee wkrness

Oh and I got mine for £50 including an electric burr grinder from someone who was “upgrading” to a Tassimo

I reckon I’ve tried everything due to various friends having various options – nespresso, tassimo, B2C, etc etc. For me nothing comes close to my own coffee from my Gaggia Classic. I still use all the stuff that came with it. Mind you, I do use the double shot basket which is probably a bit sacrilegious. I have a not-fancy burr grinder and mostly drink Americano. One can grind, fill basket, tamp (hard), attach to machine and fire out a double shot before the kettle’s even boiled. It really is no faff at all. Everything I’ve had from an nespresso has been lukewarm, just about better than premium instant but nowhere near the level of “good” one would expect for the money. This is not a “being a snob” post – I just don’t get the drive to try and automate making coffee when grinding and making an espresso with a simple machine is so simple.

Gaggia have started doing this, the Classic comes with a ‘crema device’ single hole basket which belongs in the bin and should be replaced with a proper double basket.

+1

Get a proper espresso machine without any fancy gizmos. Get a bottomless basket. Learn how to make a proper espresso. Takes a bit of practice at first but worth it once you’ve got it all dialled in.

Takes a bit of practice at first but worth it once you’ve got it all dialled in.

I agree. And every grinder will have a sweet spot on the dial where everything just works for your machine and your taste. But even the first espresso you make from a simple machine will probably be nicer than a nespresso as long as you don’t do anything stupid.

The grind and tamp etc all depend on the bean being used, so I find I have to re-learn it for each different bean I buy.

Also my grinder broke, I bought another that was as close to my old one as I could get but the results were totally different. More faffing required.

That sounds really tough mol.

The grind and tamp etc all depend on the bean being used, so I find I have to re-learn it for each different bean I buy.

Varies between bags of the same beans too, but usually not by much. Worth just sticking to the one bean when you find the right one for you. Or getting a grinder that allows you to easily change between settings.

Don’t really understand the popularity of those subscription things where you get a different bag every week for that reason. Can take a bag of beans just to get the grind dialled in.

That sounds really tough mol.

🙂

Nope, im a busy man I cannot be arsed with all of that. Aeropress for long coffees and Nespresso for quick shots for me.

Aeropress for long coffees

I looked on YouTube at Aeropress ‘operation’, looked like a faff to me. (unless they were all being a bit too….(what’s the word?)

Now I’ve got the hang of screwing my stove top whatsits name together properly, I’ll stick to that.

This is not a “being a snob” post – I just don’t get the drive to try and automate making coffee when grinding and making an espresso with a simple machine is so simple.

Because making coffee is a repeatable process so lends itself well to automation. I had a manual espresso machine. Made good coffee. I used it on weekends, but couldn’t be bothered to use it during the week because it was a faff. Warming the machine up, pre-heating the cup, faffing about with the coffee grind, using the steam want if I wanted a milky coffee then cleaning it all up afterwards. I just didn’t bother. And you can forget it when friends come round for a coffee – just crack open the Nescafe and switch on the kettle. When my espresso machine finally gave up on my I had a dalliance with pod machines of the convenience, but just couldn’t get on with the flavour. Now I have a bean to cup machine, genuine one-touch operation, I can make a decent espresso as quickly as a cup of tea and no faffing about afterwards. its fully adjustable so you can tune the coffee to suit your flavour, has a built in burr grinder, adjustable grind size, adjust the coffee strength (I guess adjusts the tamp pressure) and the volume you want to draw. I set it up to deliver one single espresso shot and it tastes as good as any i managed form my manual machine.

I can see the appeal of the theatre and process of doing it yourself, but at the end of the day it’s a coffee and as nickc puts it, your never going to replicate the ambiance of sipping an espresso in the sunshine in a nice cafe in Rome while sat on your sofa in your living room in a damp rainy summer in the UK. It’s then just about having a half decent coffee to kick the day off.

I can see the appeal of the theatre and process of doing it yourself

What you describe doesn’t involve any “theatre” for me. That’s my point – yes, I enjoy making myself a coffee but not because of any implied “theatre.”

Nespresso and many B2C machines make a “long” coffee by running the water through the capsule or coffee pod for too long. While not “rank”, it’s a waste of good coffee making a long coffee this way.

Fair enough if you only want an espresso and you want the convenience of a B2C machine. I can make a nicer cup of Americans from my Gaggia classic in the time it takes to boil a kettle and I’d hazard in less time than it takes to make a cup of tea (by tea-bag).

I can see the appeal of the theatre and process of doing it yourself

I always put on my selvage denim barista apron before executing an espresso, I do stop short of full hair and make up though.

I hope you use your Japanese machined titanium coffee tamper. 🙂

Varies between bags of the same beans too, but usually not by much. Worth just sticking to the one bean when you find the right one for you. Or getting a grinder that allows you to easily change between settings.

Don’t really understand the popularity of those subscription things where you get a different bag every week for that reason. Can take a bag of beans just to get the grind dialled in.

In my experience some beans/blends have a much wider sweetspot when it comes to getting the grind and everything else right, and usually they are more expensive, e.g. Square Mile’s blend for Milk Bar. So buying beans like that can significantly compensate for limitations in equipment and skills.

Similarly, the very best conical burr grinders* make it much easier to get a decent shot from even the most unforgiving beans, without having to dial in the grind.

I think that to get the best out of a weekly subscription where the coffee changes each week, you either need very good skills to dial in the grinder without wasting too many shots or a high end conical burr grinder, or you drink most/all of the beans as brewed coffee.

* For anyone wondering what these are, this (a Mazzer Robur Electronic grind on-demand) is an example of a high quality conical burr grinder, of the type which you would expect to find in the bettter coffee shops (although I know the big chains do the non-grind on-demand version with a thwacker type doser).

In contrast this flat burr commercial grinder (Mazzer Super Jolly) which is the workhorse grinder in many coffee shops, will require much more attention to dialling in the grind and adjusting the setting more frequently.

Yup. I’ve a £250 Delonghi Nespresso and my (when bought 8 years ago) £150 Gaggia Classic. The nespresso is barely better than good quality instant coffee, the gaggia, which takes about 30 seconds more (the time it takes to grind the beans), makes coffee which wouldn’t be out of place in a Starbucks…better if I have the time.

I just use a cafetiere, and good quality coffee.

I really don’t get why an expensive machine is necessary.

Whilst I appreciate Slowster’s comments, it’s worth pointing out that the first grinder up there is almost £1700 and the second is almost £700. I think, and as with many things, the 80:20 rule really comes into play when considering the making of coffee at home.

I have a Gaggia MDF (£170), and whilst it does need tinkering and whilst I do find the discrete steps between the settings to be cumbersome, even when setup imprecisely, it still makes for a fabulous coffee when compared to either instant or Nespresso.

Whilst I appreciate Slowster’s comments, it’s worth pointing out that the first grinder up there is almost £1700 and the second is almost £700. I think, and as with many things, the 80:20 rule really comes into play when considering the making of coffee at home.

Indeed. What I was trying to say, rather badly, is that it’s worth paying for good quality beans which are more tolerant of any weakness in equipment or technique, and even then it may may be necessary to try several different ones before finding one you like and sticking with it.

It’s a lot easier for coffee shops to use beans for which dialling in the grind is more difficult and may require to be adjusted throughout the day, because they have better kit and/or they can afford the wastage.

That sounds really tough mol.

😆

I can make a nicer cup of Americans from my Gaggia classic in the time it takes to boil a kettle and I’d hazard in less time than it takes to make a cup of tea (by tea-bag).

No chance for me. My machine takes longer to stop flashing its lights than my kettle takes to boil two cups.

Gaggia Classic, get a bottomless filter Happy Donkey and a decent weighted tamper, then start off with pre-ground Illy Espresso (Red Can) then later on get a burr grinder and start experimenting with different beans and grinds. Advantage of the Classic is that it will last for years and spares are readily available so it will just keep on going.

I changed from a £400 bean-to-cup Delonghi thing to a £250 Nespresso and don’t regret it. I’m not saying Nespresso stuff is amazing but it’s way better than instant and so much less hassle than even a bean-to-cup.

I don’t really drink much coffee so would always be chucking out beans and even with a machine automating the process the results were always inconsistent with the bean-to-cup. If I had the time and patience + drank enough of the stuff I’d probably care enough to buy a proper machine and all the gizmos but in the real world I’m happy with my Nespresso.