I’m looking into a career change, (away from shift work), see lots of jobs loosely based around project management which seem to appeal to me. Does anyone work in project management (particuarly in the NHS?) what is the day to day reality of the job? What do you actually do? Is it a made up role full of made up words and phrases and people making work for themselves to justify their roles? would a paramedic (with, say, PRINCE2) be an asset to a team, or just another person with some interesting history?

Thanks all

PMs who have actually done the job are useful. Prince2 is just an exercise in common sense combined with piles of paperwork (I am Prince2 qualiied by no longer a PM).

Being a PM can vary massivley depending on the company but generally the smaller the project the more involved you get in the solution. Pure PMing can be dull as its just an exercise in admin, form filling and resouce allocation.

I’ve been an IT PM for 13/14 years. After this much time its not dissimalar to any job, some good, some bad, some monotonous, but generally I like it and it pays the bike bills. I cant comment on NHS but suspect like most gov’t organisations they’ll follow Prince2 more rigorously than other orgs, but almost all will still want you to have the qualification even if you never use it. there are other qualifications but prince2 is still the main one.

As for your own skills, I certainly took my computer science degree with me and it helps. I cant say its essential but it means resources working on my project cant blind me with science and bull$hit me.

My final comment is that its a job for people who enjoy dealing with people. Enjoy.

What aspects of Project Management appeal?

(Yes, I am a Project Manager, not in the NHS)

TM

I don’t work in the NNHS, but do work in the public sector (on contract) and PRINCE2”d up amongst other things.
The quality of the work depends on the project – who owns it, what is it trying to achieve and how engaged are the folk delivering it. It will vary from project to project.

would a paramedic (with, say, PRINCE2) be an asset to a team

Having good domain knowledge can only improve your performance – although you have to be careful not to upset the specialists who claim to be the experts.

Good luck.

What do you actually do?

I work in IT and deal with PMs on a regular basis, so I look forward to the answer to this question.

In my experience, they serve two roles; the first is to welcome everyone at the start of a meeting, and the second is to thank everyone for attending at the end of a meeting.

I expect my experiences aren’t typical of the profession as a whole.

From observation, I think it’s quite a broad church: from narrow technology focus, to broader “programmes” which take into account various things.

Generally, lots of jobs have project management components to them (I’m a lawyer – doing the commercial + legal parts of a transaction require project management to get to close), but specific PM roles do seem to require specific PM skills (hard and soft).

I’m actually running a fair sized programme in my organisation (not wearing my lawyer hat), and I’m leaning heavily on the knowledge of the PMs I’ve got on the team. I get to take the big picture view, and they’re the key translators between the techy talk (i.e. 1000 reasons why development teams can’t possibly deliver what’s asked of them) and the business reality of what we have to achieve and by when.

Lots of organisations have PMs. Once upon a time I wasn’t always a supporter, but now I really value the skill set.

From my experience in construction a PM is someone with no qualification and/or experience who has little to no knowledge about the thing the they are ‘managing’

I’m going with **** useless

I manage capital investment projects for the NHS, 1 collegue has Prince2, 1 has done the foundation course. Its utterly useless in real life only any good for your CV. Jobs do ask for it though, but I really cant be bothered.

Is it a made up role full of made up words and phrases and people making work for themselves to justify their roles

When you use very expensive external consultants yes most definitely. Clinical staff need guiding through most projects, its people skills and background knowledge which helps that.

What happens in the NHS IME is dictated by local or national changes in politics, constantly changing and often pissing money up the wall.

Another PM here – I work in heavy Engineering – We design/build/maintain refrigeration kit and HVAC systems on Navy Ships and Submarines, both in the UK and overseas.

I enjoy it, but it can be frustrating, and tedious sometimes.
However, you never know what is going to happen from one day to the next, which can be fun!

Project Management in many industries is a natural progression through which you pass on your way to bigger/better things.
Not got a PRINCE2 or any other recognized qualification, but 8 years experience, and a 1st (BSc) in Engineering.

I’ve done some, and we’re currently looking for one in a small high tech company. I think it’s 95% talking to people, the rest doing silly charts.

Thanks all for your input. I’ve been operational in the ambulance service for 11 years, prior to that I was a talented barman in the student union.

Project management seems to be the right sort of role for me, in that it pays the right sort of level (NHS band 6+) and appeals to my interest in improving and making changes on a wider scale. I enjoy patient contact, but increasingly it has become routine and whilst there are many positives to my role and benefits of shift work, it does not fit well with family life at the moment and the longer I leave it, the greater the pay drop if I do change roles.

Given my Paramedic qulaification pretty much guaranteeing me work when i need it, project based work with a fixed(ish) deadline would be good in that I can chop and change every few years as well, keeping my foot in with ambulance work, whilst moving forward into other directions.

How much would a management qualification be beneficial as well? PRINCE 2 seems to be, “pay the money, do the work, put it on your CV” and use it as a key to get jobs, would other qulaifications be useful or a waste of money if not specifically required?

Also, as I’m in the mood for asking speculative questions, does anyone else have any ideas for jobs that pay £30k, are monday to friday 9-5 ish and don’t require a degree?

To get a band 7 or above PM role in the NHS you’ll need to know someone who’ll write the job description for you or get some qualifications and experience. You could get a band 5 or 6 job which involves some PM work and get Prince2 paid for through a training budget, then try to get re-banded or go for a higher banded job.

As I understand it PRINCE2 is only really relevant to IT projects, primarily for UK government organisations, as that’s what it was designed for. PMI and APM do courses and qualifications that are more general in their outlook and recognised in other countries and industries.

NHS IT with a fair amount of project management.
I’d say you look pretty good for a move but you need to bear in mind you’ll be dropping patient contact. Once you move to an AandC type job especially project amangement , patients become data items and transactional units, not people, so you focus on how long it takes to get one through whatever process you’re managing, not how confused and stressed they might be by the whole experience.
PRINCE2 is Big Stuff for the NHS. I’ve never done it, but all the fast trackers i know have and where they don’t actually use it, it seems to be pretty vital to get to AfC 7 or above.
You’ll probably spend a lot of time in meetings. Some are productive and the project would fail without them, others are the stuff of ring-fencing the unicorn nightmares. but overall, I like it. i like seeing the changes I’ve been instrumental in making providing a better, cheaper service. We cut referral to treatment times for potential cancer patients by 2-3 weeks, meaning more positive outcomes for patients. That’s a good thing.

You could get a band 5 or 6 job which involves some PM work and get Prince2 paid for through a training budget, then try to get re-banded or go for a higher banded job.

PRINCE2 would count as sufficient to clear an eKSF gateway and get through to the next band I’d have thought. If not, it will certainly help move from a band 6 to band 7 job

So you

are looking to move towards more stable working hours.
enjoy improving things and making change
want something you can pick up/put down

If you are fresh to Project Management and based on the above I’d start my enquiring internally. Your strength is knowing about the NHS and working there for a long time. Start being a tart and finding who runs projects and see if you can buy them coffee. People always like talking about their job – propose it as a “what sort of projects do you manage in the NHS?”. Tell them you are doing some investigations for a possible career change if asked, but let them do the talking.

I was v impressed by a candidate for a job who had taken a voluntary role in managing a project (i.e. for a charity or similar). Shows your keen – both in the disciplines involved in Project Management and in a potential career.
Oh and start being a geek – learn what it is and isn’t. This doesn’t need a PRINCE2 course just curiosity. Lots of free stuff on the web.

Good luck

TM

I work in NHS IT currently (+30 years of IT, but mostly private sector). In our board you need Prince2 (or equivalent) to be a PM and then all the qualities/processes and standards are then pretty much ignored as Senior Management have all the strategic and operational qualities of this guy:

As you’ve said, it’s a Band 6 role – we’ve some Band 7’s but they’ve got many years in the roles.

Prepare to be frustrated.

As I understand it PRINCE2 is only really relevant to IT projects

Thats not true. It’s often fairly easy to apply to an IT project as they will naturally fit with the structure but it would be useful in any project scenario. But you do need to cut through the jargon and BS.

i.e. Instead of “Write a project product description and gain approval from relevant stakeholders” you would “Agree up front and in writing with your builder what they will deliver”.

It is just common sense but that is often lacking in large organisations so it helps to have a project framework to force people to work in a sensible way.

NHS? My lord!

The place is so bureaucratic it put lives in danger. 😯

does anyone else have any ideas for jobs that pay £30k, are monday to friday 9-5 ish and don’t require a degree

Software tester. Band 5 or 6 in the NHS depending on the board.

I wouldn’t go into project management if you want a stable, 9-5 timetable – in my experience the project may start off that way, but pretty soon you’re putting in extra hours and answering emails at the weekend…

This book’s quite a good introduction to the subject:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Project-Manager-Mastering-Delivery-Management/dp/0273701738/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396626708&sr=1-5&keywords=the+art+of+project+management

Another:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Project-Management-Theory-Practice-OReilly/dp/0596007868/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396626708&sr=1-1&keywords=the+art+of+project+management

Both might be a bit biased towards IT projects, although the ideas are the same.

Prince2 is a good start and applicable to lots of projects. APM is better and harder qualification but more comprehensive. Join APM and read their hand book it’s very good about how to go about project management.

I’ve worked with some great project managers. If you’re organised and a people person, you’ll probably get on well. All of the bad ones I’ve worked with have fallen short in at least one of those areas!

I’m sure PRINCE2 will help you get the job. Possibly for your first role, look for Project Support to learn the ropes.

If you’re looking at IT project management, it couldn’t hurt to do a little reading around Agile projects.

Oh, and top tip – don’t _ever_, under any circumstances refer to any of your colleagues as ‘resources’ within earshot.

Senior Management have all the strategic and operational qualities of this guy

That’ll be me then. I’ve been responsible for quite a few commercial and change programmes in the NHS and worked with a lot of programme and project managers. In my experience they fit into two broad camps. The ones who take a flexible approach to the process to accommodate the fact that clinicians and managers are people, and use their emotional intelligence to influence and adapt, and the ones who use processes as a blunt instrument to hammer through with. The latter group tend to do more harm than good, and tend to use process to hide their general lack of common sense and people skills. In our organisation this lot have done so much harm in the past that it has taken me years to get some of my colleagues to entertain proper project management again.

I’m crying out for good PMs at a price I can afford at the moment. Particularly people with a combination of public and private sector experience and some commercial understanding.

My suggestion would be to get into a programme whether as support or a clinical lead/champion. If you’ve got the human and organisational skills, and are interested in learning and working with new services and concepts and can immerse yourself in things you previously knew little about without getting overwhelmed, there’ll always be demand for the skills, and people will be bending over backwards to give you projects of your own.

That’ll be me then. I’ve been responsible for quite a few commercial and change programmes in the NHS and worked with a lot of programme and project managers. In my experience they fit into two broad camps. The ones who take a flexible approach to the process to accommodate the fact that clinicians and managers are people, and use their emotional intelligence to influence and adapt, and the ones who use processes as a blunt instrument to hammer through with. The latter group tend to do more harm than good, and tend to use process to hide their general lack of common sense and people skills. In our organisation this lot have done so much harm in the past that it has taken me years to get some of my colleagues to entertain proper project management again.

I was referring to the COO and the like – their Management style is like something from the late 70’s. Maybe other Boards are different?

In fairness I’m not sure that ours is.

I’m a PM, I’ve worked in the nhs in the past and do so at the moment. Fundementslly it’s about delivering a brief, managing schedules and managing risk. There’ll be reporting, meetings and correspondence like every job but at the end of the day it’s about getting other people to deliver the bits of the puzzle