Im looking to build up a hardtail.
As a forty something I’m not going to be pushing the hardcore envelope but do like to have a bit of fun with me bikes.
What does the STW massive recommend a Cotic Soul or Cotic BFe for a build?
I like the BFe colours and strength, but the weight???
I’m looking at 140mm forks too.
Any thoughts welcome!

I’m just about to build a BFe and it probably won’t see much more than cycle routes!

I’m not going to be pushing the hardcore envelope

Soul it is.

They’ll build up about the same weight give or take a pound – really depends on components. And a Soul is better at 120-130 according to my Soul-riding Buddy’s, whereas the BFe in the group runs 150, and runs it hard.

Go Soul.

I’ve got a large bfe frame and sektor forks for sale in the classifieds just now

I’m also 40+ and built up a BFe a couple of years ago.

It’s a fantastic bike, but needs to be pushed hard to come alive. It feels a bit dead when just pootling but once its pointed downhill its ace.

Ive done longer rides ie 25+ miles on it and whilst its comfy for longer rides its hard work due to the weight.

I typically run mine at 130 to 140mm.

Not sure of your reason for 140mm and never owned a Soul but would think 140mm would be too much for a Soul.

If you are set on 140mm forks then a bfe. But for what you plan on riding I would say soul with 120mm forks, love mine 🙂

I’ve had both and preferred the BFe. I wouldn’t get too hung up on travel issues, as both work okay with a range of forks IME. The key issue is how hard you descend.

Would anyone care to explain what makes the BFe handle better with 140mm forks than the Soul, which seems to be the general consensus (not only in this thread)? Is the Soul just too flexy?

They’re the same geometry

Both work best with a 120mm travel fork, though are rated for longer

BFe is approximately 1lb heavier due to more material in the frame making it stiffer and stronger (but is still lighter than an On One Inbred).

Price aside, unless you’re wanting to chuck it off things or a a very big or hard rider, get the Soul. They’re more than capable of quite a bit of abuse anyway.

Bringing price back into it, the BFe is a lot cheaper, and though its stiffer than a stiff thing it does have the same geometry as the Soul, if not the lively ride feel.

They’re the same geometry

I know, which is why I’m curious as to why a lot of people are saying that the BFe is better @ 140mm than the Soul. Must be related to stiffness in some way.

Would anyone care to explain what makes the BFe handle better with 140mm forks than the Soul, which seems to be the general consensus (not only in this thread)? Is the Soul just too flexy?

It’s cosswallop written by people who haven’t ridden both being subjective about their own purchases.

They’re the same geometry. A BFe might take a 160mm fork, but even at 140mm my old one still felt too lazy for my liking. I had a U-Turn Pike thankfully which I ran at 120-125 pretty much all the time which felt ideal.

Same for a Soul, it’s a lighter frame with a slightly more lively ride though.

Stanton Slackline!
Awesomely amazing fun downhill.
Good in the air.
853 tubing.
Will be racing downhill in veteran hardtail class if there is such a thing.
Blue draws a lot of attention.

I built up a medium BFe last year and ran it with 100/120/140 Talas forks. It was nice but as others have said, it felt a bit dead to me. It was heavy but not excessively so. I managed to race a 12h endurance race on it with no problems but it wasn’t the ideal bike for it.

I realised that the BFe wasn’t the bike for me so I relented and got myself a large Soul frame and swapped all the parts from the BFe onto it. The Soul rides better at all fork travels as far as I’m concerned. 120mm seems perfect on it. I’m not sure exactly what it is but the Soul just feels better to ride.
Personally i wish I’d spent the extra money in the first place and got myself a Soul rather than the BFe. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great bike, just not for me.

The Soul works great at 140mm – it’s exactly the same geometry as the BFe, stiff enough for 140mm forks and strong enough to be ridden hard. BFe is better if you’re sending big jumps (DH gaps or dirt jumping) and crashing harder, or if you prefer a stiffer frame, or if you’re on a tighter budget.

Posing for a photo yesterday:

When it’s drier I tend to land roughly level with that stump on the right of the downslope, having popped off that hump the bike’s against. Not big air but not wheels on the ground!

mboy – Member
Would anyone care to explain what makes the BFe handle better with 140mm forks than the Soul, which seems to be the general consensus (not only in this thread)? Is the Soul just too flexy?
It’s cosswallop written by people who haven’t ridden both being subjective about their own purchases.

They’re the same geometry. A BFe might take a 160mm fork, but even at 140mm my old one still felt too lazy for my liking. I had a U-Turn Pike thankfully which I ran at 120-125 pretty much all the time which felt ideal.

Same for a Soul, it’s a lighter frame with a slightly more lively ride though.

POSTED 17 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Mboy +1.

Each to their own, Cy reckons the soul rides better with around 120mm travel, loads of folk read this, and spouted it to death. I’m not saying he’s wrong, just that he is saying what works for him. I’ve tried my soul (my 2nd one) with 100, 120, 130 and 140, and 140 suits me best. It’s all subjective to how you like to ride.

I’d go for the soul btw, not quite as stiff, and comfier on longer rides.

I dont know the real world weights of a soul but my Bfe (large) was a smidge over 7 lbs. Heavy frame built into a heavy bike.

My medium Soul frame weighed 1995g (4.4lbs) including the seat clamp. That’s a pre-CEN model, but I don’t think they’ve got significantly heavier with the later models. Looking forward to comparing it with the Bfe, as my mate’s waiting for his frame to arrive mid-January.

My BFe (admittedly an XS) is 29lb with a relatively tough build (Flows, Bombers (44s), etc.) which is light enough for 40 mile rides for me. I know deep down a Soul might well suit me better, but I’ve always ridden overbuilt HTs and just love the BFe’s ‘have a go’ feel (however subjective that might be). I run the forks at 150 without it being unduly wandery except on steep switchbacks, but might well drop them down to 130 this year if I can find a decent tutorial somewhere as being a shortarse I sometimes struggle to get enough weight over the front wheel.

I’ve had a soul and a bfe and i def agree with those that have said the bfe feels a bit dead.The soul is plenty strong but feels more alive.
Get the bfe if u want something properly bullet proof

IMO it’s this simple- if you’re not smashing it to bits, and you can afford it, get a Soul. They’re not delicate so you need to be giving it a really uncommon amount of stick for it to become a problem. And most folks won’t want over 140mm of fork anyway

But, disclaimer- the big difference isn’t the weight, it’s just the feel. More metal in the BFe which makes it stiffer and, IMO, a bit dead. Whereas the Soul takes so much of its character from its livelier feel. Bottom line was the Soul felt inspiring, the BFe felt workmanlike.

I don’t miss my BFe at all, but I missed the Soul enough to buy a Soda!

Oh and last comment- I don’t think there’s a bike in the world that deserve a u-turn fork more than a Soul. They really do work well at all settings, so a fork that also works well at all settings is a brucey bonus.

I know, which is why I’m curious as to why a lot of people are saying that the BFe is better @ 140mm than the Soul. Must be related to stiffness in some way.

Because folk who buy a BFe hit hard downhill more, whereas folk who by Souls’ wanbt an all day bike.

Can’t comment on a bfe, but had my soul at all travels from 100 to 140 using qr rebas then 20mm revs. As said, it works wonderfully at all travels, but at 140 the front end could not be quite pinned on the corners as nicely as at 120 on fast and/or twisty singletrack.

I had a bfe and whilst it was lovely to ride it was very stiff on the back end!! Reminded me of my old 456 frame

Gone back to full suss now

I am talking about the current green bfe to

I have had 3 Souls and a Bfe (the 853 Version)

They are as others have pointed out the same geometry, the BFe seems to come alive when the pace gets quicker, Rocky DH are where it seems to be much better than the Soul regardless of the travel. It just seems to be able to carry more speed, don’t know why but it’s definitely the case.

TBH if money is not a big factor, it’s the Soul you need. And anything from 120mm to 140mm seems to work well. I think it gets a bit wandery on steep climbs at 140mm, but thats just my view.

Soul is what you need – end of.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD4mXRFhaU0[/video]

Run my Soul at 140, love it, dead happy with the handling and wouldn’t want any less. BFe is same geo, so the only difference is weight/strength – if you’re regularly hitting 4-5 foot drops, the BFe is probably what you want, but for trail ridding, the Soul is just lovely. That said, the BFe is a couple of hundred cheaper.

Northwind’s first paragraph about covers it, above.

Yup, Soul it is then….
Emailed Cotic today, stock due end if the month hopefully.
Looks like they are doing the lovely bright green instead of the black.
That’s what I will be getting to build up.
Better start looking for some fox floats……..

Looks like they are doing the lovely bright green instead of the black

you are $hitting me, I ended up with a bloody orange because they wouldn’t be doing the green. 👿

buggers !!!!!!

I had a BFe (The mark II version) with 140mm forks. Nice bike, but it gave me a bit of a battering on all day rides out in Spain. As a lot of people have already said, it also felt a bit dead unless you were flat out on it.

In the end I sold it and bought a Soul, which I run with 120mm forks. For me it’s been much better for all day rides, especially where rocky trails are involved (Spain) and, on the whole, I prefer it over the BFe.

You can still hit fairly big trails on the Soul, but you can’t really plough through stuff in the same way as with the BFe, but as that’s only a small part of the riding I do I don’t really miss it.