Well?

Pro Pedal yes. I like it a LOT. I’ve not ridden a bike that didn’t benefit from a touch of Pro Pedal.

Lock Out no.

Absolutely necessary – what will you brag about in the pub?

Not really, But i find Pro pedal on my stumpy great. I ride with propedal on most of the time until it gets a bit rougher

So in that case, are shocks without some form of pro-pedal/ lockout, pointless?

FYI Still can’t decide what I want through my bike to work scheme. Pitch Pro is pushing the budget a little at the moment. Cannondale Prophet 2 is nice though but the Fox Float R shock is giving me headaches.

Depends whether you compete in events with significant amounts of tarmac / hard smoothish surfaces. If you’re not racing then just put up with a bit of bobbing.

Only race this year is the 10 under the ben.

Its down to the bike suspension design. I have an RP23 on my BLT2 and there’s not much difference between propedal switched in or out. On other bikes it will make much more difference. Lockout for the road bits is OK if its there, but for me not that important that it would be a purchase consideration

Not necessary, but very useful. I wouldn’t be without it. I have had a shock with both propedal and lockout (Specialized/Fox Triad) and I never used the lockout, but used the PP a lot. I now have an RP23 and use the PP setting quite a bit too.

“If you’re not racing then just put up with a bit of bobbing. “
What’s it got to do with racing? A bobbing shock on smooth climbs or tarmac is annoying whether you’re racing or not.

Ride a Scott Genius and you’ll know why lock-out is a yes. Why make things hard for yourself if you don’t have to?

as ^ they (mostly) said, depends on the frame.

I’ve ridden 7 inch travel single pivot with a 5th element – pedals very well if you sit down (does kick back a bit in granny gear though)

spesh enduro (about 2005 maybe. 5 inch or so ?) – bobby as hell without the lockout (didn’t have any intermediate setting)

trance 2007 with no propedal etc (is that right? – fox float). Don’t see “any” movement on pedalling when seated & can honk pretty well too

curious.
i have a 2008 orange 5 with a ‘5 tune’ rp23. propedal in any of the 3 settings doesn’t seem to do very much at all. according to mojo ‘they’re all like that sir’ because the compression is low. kind of defeats the object of having an rp23 i would have thought but there you are. in fairness i think the fork makes the bike feel more bobby than the shock, no pro pedal or lockout on that, so i’m going to see how i go with the shock for now, and think about getting it tuned later maybe.

Pro Pedal is not just about counteracting bob IME.

Some bikes feel better throughout the suspension compression with some Pro Pedal dialled on.

Pro Pedal can also improve a bike’s handling – less wibble and wallow, digging tyres in for traction, better handling through corners etc etc. I can’t stand “too plush” bikes – vague horribleness. I like suspension to deal with mid- to big-sized hits. Big decent tyres can do the small stuff.

IMHO 🙂

Not only about the bike, but also about the rider.
Some riders have a smooth pedaling style, other are more aggresive, or else!!!

SB 😉

I had my FloatR upgraded by Mojo from non pro-pedal to some kind of pro-pedal internal upgrade.

It has made a difference to the ‘bob’ experienced, but I wouldn’t have said it was definitely necessary.
I was having the shock serviced and figured it was worth the extra £30 or so to try the upgrade out.

I find the problem with lockouts is remembering to release them. I have poploc on my new Reba’s and even though i have had them on the bike for a couple of months now I still manage to leave them locked out on the descent following a fire road climb. And to be honest, I don’t really NEED to lock them out, I just do it ‘cos the facility is there. I am not enough of a whippet to appreciate the slight benefit of climbing in rigid mode!

Del: I find one and two don’t do much but 3 is very noticeable.

The Orange 5 climbs rather well if you sit the hell down but sometimes we all need to stand and that’s where setting 3 normally gets put on as the 5 literally buckles under standing pedal input on climbs…

I normally run a bit of 3 if it’s a smooth seated climb as well…

I had a Motion Control 3.3 on my Trek Fuel and found it useful, I did not use the lockout too often but on flat or when going up I was using MC and when going down I flicked the switch to fully open making it nice and active. And with Motion Control feature helped my Fuel be a bit more efficient.

Liked it more than when riding my Scott G-zero with a DT Swiss shock with no lockout. But again Scott and Trek are two different suspension designs as well.

Probably if You have a nice frame that designers solved the problem of being overly active with pivots (maestro, vpp etc) than a normal damper would probably do but as I found with Scott a new damper can make an older design frame still capable and behave nicely 🙂

Gary,
thanks for that. you have an rp23 with the ‘5 tune’, low compression?
it’s not that big a deal but as i normally ride a single speed i’m well used to standing up, and i had thought that the rp23 would allow me to do that in a slightly more controlled manner than i am getting now. if i look at the frame when i do stand the movement is pretty minimal but of course you can feel it. understand that FSers work better sat down and am happy to do that most of the time, but when i get tired i revert to type!

I’ve got a Orange 5 aswell, but mine is 07 without a ‘5tune’ RP23 and i can definately tell the difference between the 3 PP settings and PP Off. It works well for standing climbing, but if i had to replace it i think i’d just go for a RP2.

Brain all the way, let the bike worry about it.

The Brain is just like Propedal, ie a slow speed compression adjustment. It just differers in having an inertia sensitive valve rather than just a pressure sensitive one.

As for whether a slow speed compression adjustment is useful – of course it is (just like any other adjustment) if you know what it does. What isn’t much use, in my opinion at least, is Propedal without the ability to switch it off (ie standard fox float) – it’s always strangling the suspension to a certain extent (especially if it is a ‘firm’ tune).

Pro Pedal can also improve a bike’s handling

yeh, suppose so. I seem to run rebound a bit slower than most – perhaps that’s me stopping wallow as well but from the other side
Never had obvious packing down problems but (more bullshit alert!) maybe it holds the bike a bit lower in its travel for a given spring rate?

Think my trouble is I never ride enough to see effects of making changes as I’ve usually forgotten the last ride

Never had obvious packing down problems but (more bullshit alert!) maybe it holds the bike a bit lower in its travel for a given spring rate?

Isn’t ‘holding the bike a bit lower in it’s travel’ packing down then?

del: yeah 08 five with the custom tune… climbing stood up I find PP3 and slighty bigger gear with slower smooth pedalling rather than higher temo ‘dancing’ works best…

I find PP spoils the handling though, the bike feels a bit stuttery and reluctant on ST with it on, flip it wide open and it sits down in the trail more and feels smoother and more willing…

Isn’t ‘holding the bike a bit lower in it’s travel’ packing down then?

yes, but it’s not necessarily an OBVIOUS packing down PROBLEM (such as loss of bump absorption, bottoming out etc)

Surely the PP holds the bike higher in it’s travel? When setting sag, if I put PP on it stops it reaching 25% when I set it up to reach that when open. If it hinders the bike sitting in it’s sag how can it sit lower in it’s travel?

Ben_Haworth – Moderator

Pro Pedal is not just about counteracting bob IME.

Some bikes feel better throughout the suspension compression with some Pro Pedal dialled on.

Pro Pedal can also improve a bike’s handling – less wibble and wallow, digging tyres in for traction, better handling through corners etc etc. I can’t stand “too plush” bikes – vague horribleness. I like suspension to deal with mid- to big-sized hits. Big decent tyres can do the small stuff.

IMHO [:-)]

You do realise that Pro Pedal only works on the initial 1st mm or so of shock movement? Once the the Pro Pedal shim lifts and the shock is moving, it has no effect on the damping performance for the rest of the stroke!
Pffft, bike journos…

I find PP spoils the handling though, the bike feels a bit stuttery and reluctant on ST with it on, flip it wide open and it sits down in the trail more and feels smoother and more willing…

Completely agree with that

Surely the PP holds the bike higher in it’s travel? When setting sag, if I put PP on it stops it reaching 25% when I set it up to reach that when open. If it hinders the bike sitting in it’s sag how can it sit lower in it’s travel?

I agree with you
What I was babbling about was the possible effect of running more rebound damping, not increasing propedal for more compression threshold (assume that’s what propedal is)

I’ve got a Orange 5 aswell, but mine is 07 without a ‘5tune’ RP23 and i can definately tell the difference between the 3 PP settings and PP Off.

Dave, i know… ( the clue is in the name mate 🙂 )
Gary, cheers – food for thought. maybe i will fire it back at mojo after all then.

You do realise that Pro Pedal only works on the initial 1st mm or so of shock movement?

Baloney!
It isn’t a position sensitive valve, but speed sensitive.

You do realise that Pro Pedal only works on the initial 1st mm or so of shock movement?

compression threshold (assume that’s what propedal is)

still don’t know if this is true – some stuff from google suggests that Fox’s (ie “real” trademarked) propedal is low speed compression damping – does that mean it’s active throughout the stroke?
(fox’s site doesn’t readily offer answers)

rockshox forks (& shocks?) have that floodgate, which I believe to be a real on/off threshold adjuster (though someone on the old forum suggested it could be run part-on with more subtle effects)

5th element shocks are supposedly “position sensitive” (rather than speed sensitive) and I have mine both on “plush”, which should exaggerate bob on a 7 inch SP, but it’s fine generally

marz forks have high & low speed circuits but I’ve no idea actually how they interact

could a grown-up perhaps educate us (me) on differences between brands ??

I believe 5th element shocks are similar to SPV, in that they offer extra/adjustable low speed compression damping that is also position sensitive to resist bottoming.

p.s. I also thing the 5th element platform damping is better than propedal (with the exception of not being adjustable on the fly). Shame you can’t buy the 5th air shocks anymore.

aaaarrrggghhhhh ! 😉

WTF is SPV

(goes off to look for 5th element instruction book)

glenh – I thought people hated the air ones ?

I got a frame with the coil version on it. That nice Mr Flooks swapped a seal on warranty after he saw the bike in the back of my car and then twiddled my knobs a bit. Since then, apart from bumping up rebound a little bit, I’ve not touched it (about 3yrs I guess)

Bike and riding style dependant I reckon.

The RP2 on my 5″ Trance X2: I never use the PP setting because it makes it ride more like my HT i.e. it reduces responsiveness and hence grip.
Climbing grip seems vastly superior with no prop-pedal on. No amount of pedalling generates any bob at all and you have to lurch around to move it. I find the best strategy is to move my upper body around very quietly and smoothly when honking to avoid badly un-weighting the rear wheel. The sus digs the tyre in brilliantly allowing smooth and powerful progress. If I fail on a climb its usually due to lungs and legs and not loss of grip.
I’ve experimented with different sag. Against all advice, I find 30-40% most effective because the bike seems to squat lower to the ground, gripping into corners and impressions more effectively.
I think the general lack of bob and wallow is mainly down to the firmness of the linkage design, and it actuating the shock in a complementary way.

Interesting thread.

I agree with you Buzz, don’t think Maestro suspended Giants benefit greatly from Propedal – hardly ever use it on the Anthem.

On the other hand, I wish I had an RP23 on my Yeti 575, as it wallows all over the gaff if the DHX Air isn’t set up just right.

I don’t know if all single-pivot bikes suffer from this, or are some better? And is it a Yeti characteristic or a failing of the DHX Air? I know they get a bad press in some quarters.

Yeti 575’s work hugely better with a Fox RP23 turned up to 3 on the Pro Pedal IME. With it switched off 575’s can wallow around and over-eagerly blow through their travel. With it switched on (and turned up to max) the bike is completely transformed into a very, very ace bike 🙂

Ta Ben, I have a Float R in the garage waiting to go on – if that doesn’t improve matters I’ll consider springing for a RP23.