that is what t’internet is about and while no doubt ‘immediate’ can be largely superficial and instantly forgettable.

so all we are left with is the past ?

You are being silly now Simon !

I’m not about to get into a discussion with you because it will inevitably end the same way, so I’ll cut out the interminably dull to’ing and fro’ing and go straight to the outcome

because it will inevitably end the same way

I lack your foresight 🙁 If things followed a script they would be deadly dull…

I also subscribed to Privateer, in the hope for something a bit more substantial to read.

Being of a “certain age” it was great to be nostalgic and remember how I started riding in the 70’s off road on a totally unsuitable bike. I still have my first real mountain bike (Cannondale F900) and enjoy a spin now and again but appreciate the advances which have been made in the intervening years.

The writing I thought to be varied and interesting but I was somewhat disappointed with the photography. Although the scenery was great, where were the bikes / cyclists in the “images” section?

I used to work in the States and subscribed to Bike magazine, which was a great combination of articles about WHY we ride and reviews of stuff I might actually buy. The magazine was always disappointedly thin so could be read in a day but it’s quality shone through.

Singletrack magazine is very similar, but with more content, so ultimately more satisfying.

Perhaps we should allow Privateer a bit of latitude to decide what it wants to be and what it’s target audience is supposed to be. A new venture is always an easy target, so some constructive suggestions may be the way forward for now.

Sorry got carried away…
Phillip

some constructive suggestions may be the way forward for now.

I wish I had some! It beats the hell out of me, which is why I’d never dream of trying to produce a magazine, but conversely, if you do make the attempt then you need to have a vision, and I would hope that was more than the floor-sweepings of history, however well presented.

I just got mine here, looks like it arrives on October 8th to stores:

http://www.alwaysriding.co.uk/privateer-magazine-issue-one-779.html

Although the scenery was great, where were the bikes / cyclists in the “images” section?

I can now really see the difficulty in producing meaningful and thought-provoking writing and images for an audience completely devoid of any imagination whatsoever. Clearly the Privateer team are on a hiding to nothing.

I can now really see the difficulty in producing meaningful and thought-provoking writing and images for an audience completely devoid of any imagination whatsoever

ah, so it’s our fault ? I should have realised! Bad us! Pearls before swine 🙁

so Privateer is aimed only at those able to imagine innovation and creativity, even when absent ? Surely they could save money and imagine the whole thing ? Or perhaps it was just a dream ?

FYI I have no imagination whatever (except sadly in relation to gorgeous women), however that does not prevent me from thinking or being entertained.

ah, so it’s our fault ?

no. but Privateer is clearly not for you. So can you stop now?

So can you stop now?

apparently not! But issue one is nothing like the mission statement so #2 may be entirely non-imaginitive compatible and wonderful 🙂

If you’ve got mountain biking and it’s got you, a deep emotional connection exists that is agony to even try and explain: a permanent bond with the trails, the sounds, the fear, the great outdoors, the beads of sweat, the coffee and cake, the beer – a bond between rider, bike and terrain that grips forever.

What. A. Bag. Of. W*nk.

I can now really see the difficulty in producing meaningful and thought-provoking writing and images for an audience completely devoid of any imagination whatsoever

I was thinking this over again today (completely unimaginatively, obviously), and whilst imagination drives creativity, even the totally unimaginative can be moved by art, and requiring people to contribute their own imagination implies incomplete work…

Rouleur/Privateer == Apple iPod
Singletrack == Android Phone

simonfbarnes = speaking clock

repetitive, predictable, and after a day, it has nothing new to say

repetitive, predictable, and after a day, it has nothing new to say

oh, you mean like Privateer ?

surely I should have liked it then ?

Well, they told me I was not getting issue 1 but it turned up in the post today. Result – so far I like the smell.

Just got my ‘investment’ copy today – I can see why it’s expensive – it really is quite book-like. Haven’t read it yet though – anyone got a copy they want to lend me so I can keep mine pristine? 🙂

Just got my ‘investment’ copy today

is that not itself a kind of kiss of death? Buying something for its rarity value implies lack of popularity 🙁

Not really when they seem to have done a limited first run as far as I’m aware which does seem to have sold out.

FWIW, based on my initial flick through it does actually look reasonable for the price (considering that ‘normal’ mags are £4) considering the amount of reading in it. Whether that can be sustained beyond a few issues is debateable but it’ll be interesting to see.

Whether that can be sustained beyond a few issues

oh god no, please let it improve significantly!

Buying something for its rarity value implies lack of popularity

I don’t get that statement at all. something that is rare, but has appeal to a market will be worth more money in the future than something that is not rare and has appeal to the market. Collectors who are interested in said market will buy rare item. Antiques? Cars? Art? Toys?

I don’t get that statement at all. something that is rare, but has appeal to a market will be worth more money in the future than something that is not rare and has appeal to the market. Collectors who are interested in said market will buy rare item. Antiques? Cars? Art? Toys?

The issue is whether or not it has appeal to a market. The jury appears to be out on that one.

Collectors who are interested in said market will buy rare item

exactly, things become rare either by being a) only made in small numbers due to being overpriced or unpopular or b) being thrown away (possibly in disgust)

Subscribed – was informed I would only receive issue 2. Cancelled, issue 1 arrived in post. Rather like it – at least is#s not full of “buy this, no this…”

exactly, things become rare either by being a) only made in small numbers due to being overpriced or unpopular or b) being thrown away (possibly in disgust)

Or they are rare because the manufacturer deliberately releases small numbers of them, like Rouleur, or limited edition artwork prints, or Privateer…

Or they are rare because the manufacturer deliberately releases small numbers of them, like Rouleur, or limited edition artwork prints, or Privateer…

oh yeah, of course! “We’re niche, we’re cool, we’re rare, we’re making up excuses for a limited print run because no one’ll buy any more…”

some companies don’t feel the need to mass produce items, would you agree with that? quality over quantity (regardless of whether you think Privateer is quality or not, thats what they are going for)

some companies don’t feel the need to mass produce items, would you agree with that?

you mean they wouldn’t like to make too much money and become corrupt – or not lose so much ?

quality over quantity

well, this is indeed what I’d hoped for!

you mean they wouldn’t like to make too much money and become corrupt – or not lose so much ?

They want to keep numbers low so they can ensure the quality remans the same throughout the production.
ramp up production and quality falls, unless you throw invest vast amounts of money at it. I’m not talking about Privateer explicitly here, just low volume high quality companies, which is what privateer / rouleur are

They want to keep numbers low so they can ensure the quality remans the same throughout the production.
ramp up production and quality falls, unless you throw invest vast amounts of money at it.

Eh? Are you suggesting that cost per unit increases (for a given quality) as production run size increases?

They want to keep numbers low so they can ensure the quality remans the same throughout the production.

sorry, I just don’t believe this. If you just keep doing the same thing you get the same result. I guess the masters become worn after a time but more than one set can be made. It’s not like using up all the magic…

I would say so, as in this case the printing needs to speed up, this always leads to a loss of quality and more wastage IMO, so prices go up. not to mention faster presses cost more money, this cost is passed on to the customer (Privateer in this case)

Simon, surely printing is digital in this day and age?

as in this case the printing needs to speed up

why not just take longer ?

why not just take longer ?

Deadlines, and longer printing means less time editing and writing.

Deadlines, and longer printing means less time editing and writing.

I think you’re gasping at straws. Given the “this month, next month, some time” deadline I don’t think time was much of an issue…

I’ve worked as a printer, have you? I have seen and experienced first hand all the things mentioned above. if you think there’ll be piles of magazines lying about for a few weeks then you’re wrong.

anyway I can’t believe I’m discussing the printing practises of an mtb mag. By the way I do have it, haven’t really looked through it yet though!

Mine arrived over the weekend. Initial impressions are it’s good. I’ll read it properly on the train to that London tomorrow and I’m looking forward to it. So ner.

A wunnerful spin off for me created by all the usual negative forum withering disapproval of absolutely everything is it led me on to charlie kelly’s website, which is bloody ace on oh so many levels. Loving the journal of how his folks got to the west coast too.

if you think there’ll be piles of magazines lying about for a few weeks then you’re wrong.

I really know nothing about magazine production, but the suggestion that quantity has to be limited to ensure quality stretches credulity. If deadlines are lax then there’s no particular pressure to get everything done quickly at the expence of quality

Well my edition 1 has landed – talk about over packaged 🙄

It looks like a quality product. I will consume on the train tomorrow!

I still remain ambivalent about Privateer, and haven’t really felt compelled to read much more of it.

I’ll give the next two issues (using my susbscription limit up) a go, but if it doesn’t go anywhere, I shan’t continue to subscribe for the sake of wishing it was more like Rouleur in its sweep.