Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 379 total)
  • Private School Business Rates Relief – The Scots are getting rid…
  • edlong
    Free Member

    So, I started a thread some time ago (long enough that it’s now closed:
    http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/charity-bashers-assemble-for-the-real-scandal-private-schools ) but to save you the read, the pertinent points I’m picking up on here are:

    Most private schools are registered as charities.
    One of the significant tax advantages is that they get a mandatory relief of 80% on their business rates.
    One of the egregious features of this is that state schools aren’t charities and have to find 100% of their business rates out of their budgets.

    So, this is now set to change in Scotland. The mandatory business rates relief is going to be removed from them. It’s fair to say that the private schools sector in Scotland is not best pleased with this.

    I, on the other hand, am very pleased about this.

    You don’t have to be politically opposed to the existence of private, fee paying schools to think that, if state schools have to pay their rates, their private equivalents should also have to contribute on an equal basis.

    Well, I thought it was interesting, anyway. More comment from different sides of the debate can be found here:

    sauce

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    if state schools have to pay their rates

    Interestingly, Special Schools don;t have to pay rates around here (not sure if that is national) but, as a consequence, they’re not allowed to hire their facilities out.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    It’s a great move – the whining from certain commentators about poor hardworking upper-middle-class families who now won’t be able to afford both a private school and a pony have been hilarious.

    Next target: all the tax reliefs for hunting estates.

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    NewRetroTom
    Full Member

    State schools paying their rates is surely a bit of a circular thing though, as they are mostly funded by the local council. So they basically pay the rates to the authority who then give it back to them as part of their budget.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Beware the law of unintended consequences.

    They should get the results they deserve from such a myopic policy. Good job it’s not a party that emphasise education.

    duckman
    Full Member

    Next target: all the tax reliefs for hunting estates.

    THM, doesn’t like it; that probably makes it a good thing.

    That will be a truly joyous day!

    kilo
    Full Member

    Who’d have thought equality of treatment would be a myopic policy.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    THM, doesn’t like it; that probably makes it a good thing.

    That will be a truly joyous day!

    +1

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    Do you also have an issue with Universities?
    (because AFAIK they are also registered as charities in the same way that private schools are).

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    While we are on it, please can it be applied to Universities?

    As an example: Edinburgh University had £909million income last year, leaving £87m after financial investments, capital investments etc, and are sat on financial investments of £171m.

    They do not pay business rates.

    In Scotland, the top 20 charities by income and resources are dominated by Universities:

    University Of Edinburgh
    University Of Glasgow Court
    University Of Strathclyde
    University Of Dundee
    University Of Aberdeen
    University Of St Andrews
    Heriot-Watt University
    The Glasgow Housing Association Limited
    Culture & Sport Glasgow
    Edinburgh Napier University
    Glasgow Caledonian University
    The Church Of Scotland
    University Of Stirling
    Court of the University of the West of Scotland
    The Robert Gordon University
    Historic Environment Scotland
    University of the Highlands and Islands
    Mercy Corps Europe
    SRUC
    Glasgow School Of Art

    I just lost a piece of work as a University (in England) didn’t want to pay the rates we as a small charity charge for our training services, at significantly less than that University charges itself out at, for work their staff do not have the expertise to deliver, and while sat on £700m of financial investments….

    bencooper
    Free Member

    Do you also have an issue with Universities?

    University education is free in Scotland, so everyone benefits – unlike with private schools.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Do you also have an issue with Universities?

    The issue is with (lack of) equality not eduction….

    gonefishin
    Free Member

    Beware the law of unintended consequences.

    They should get the results they deserve from such a myopic policy. Good job it’s not a party that emphasise education.

    Hasn’t it pretty much always been the case that once you correct for selective nature of private schools that the state system offers a better education that private?

    duckman
    Full Member

    sharkbait – Member

    Do you also have an issue with Universities?

    No, because they are free.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    Hasn’t it pretty much always been the case that once you correct for selective nature of private schools that the state system offers a better education that private?

    Yup. Many years ago, when I was going to secondary school, my parents looked at a private school in Glasgow. It was a dump – the library was tiny and badly equipped, the sports facilities were not great, but they emphasised the ‘quality’ of people who went there and the connections they had to get kids good careers or into Oxbridge.

    I’m very glad I went to the good local secondary instead.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    if state schools have to pay their rates, their private equivalents should also have to contribute on an equal basis.

    It wouldn’t be a level playing field though would it. Schools are given a budget, and part of that budget is to pay for rates.

    I pay my council tax so I pay for state schools I also then decide to send my son to private school. Isnt that a win win?

    At my sons private school and do not see any of the teachers driving around in posh cars / living in posh houses, in fact I understand that wages are less than state schools. Private schools are not run for profit!

    So really where is this detrimental to anyone?

    dannyh
    Free Member

    THM, doesn’t like it; that probably makes it a good thing.

    +1.

    THM is now on my list of convenient litmus tests when I can’t be bothered to look into the minutiae of an issue.

    If THM, ninfan, chewkw, enfht and Nigel Farage are up in arms about something then that must mean it is something good that should be encouraged.

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    No, because they are free.

    Have they stopped the £9k/year tuition fees then? Yay 🙂

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    Private schools are not run for profit!

    they are run for ‘a surplus’ which sounds far less capitalistic but there’s still targets set for Bursars etc to meet over and above their running costs.

    whitestone
    Free Member

    Hasn’t it pretty much always been the case that once you correct for selective nature of private schools that the state system offers a better education that private?

    Oh, the ironing!

    chakaping
    Free Member

    Private schools are not run for profit!

    Then you have to ask yourself what they are run for.

    And the answer is much more worrying than if they were just run for profit.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    At my sons private school and do not see any of the teachers driving around in posh cars / living in posh houses, in fact I understand that wages are less than state schools.

    My Mrs works as an unqualified teacher in a local private school. If she was full time she’d be on £20k more than me as a state school teacher at the top of the pay scale

    footflaps
    Full Member

    If THM, ninfan, chewkw, enfht and Nigel Farage are up in arms about something then that must mean it is something good that should be encouraged.

    You forgot to add Trump to the list 😉

    bodgy
    Free Member

    State schools ‘business’ rates are paid to the Local Authority by the Local Authority.

    Perhaps the Local Authorities should reimburse the Private schools the £17k+ per pupil per year subsidy that a state education would otherwise cost the taxpayer?

    salad_dodger
    Full Member

    There’s a few others that you could add to the list but I think Danny nailed it.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    My Mrs works as an unqualified teacher in a local private school. If she was full time she’d be on £20k more than me as a state school teacher at the top of the pay scale

    I thought the lowest pay scale in teaching was £22,467 rising to £33,160 after 6 years ?!?

    And the answer is much more worrying than if they were just run for profit.

    Go on please expand, maybe I am being naïve? The modest ‘profit’ made by my sons school get used to reinvest in facilities etc.

    duckman
    Full Member

    Have they stopped the £9k/year tuition fees then? Yay

    Obvious troll etc…was mine the only post you read?

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Love the idea that Uni education is free. Politicians must love the idea that people fall for that

    If your devolved government wants to harm your education system – which already has poor equality records – then you shouldn’t like it too ducks. But perhaps the rush to post was too much 😉 ?

    codybrennan
    Free Member

    teamhurtmore – Member
    Good job it’s not a party that emphasise education.

    On the contrary- this is intended to correct Scotland’s long-standing educational problems, ignored by a succession of administrations. By doing this, the SNP are emphasising education, something your anti-Scots blinkers won’t let you see.

    Its a good move, and should be adopted UK-wide. We all benefit from a well-educated populace, and absenting yourself from your responsibility to others should be outlawed.

    surroundedbyhills
    Free Member

    duckman – Member
    sharkbait – Member
    Do you also have an issue with Universities?

    No, because they are free.

    The number of Free places available at Scottish Uni’s is capped by ScotGov.

    BillMC
    Full Member

    ‘Good job it’s not a party that emphasises education’ FTFY

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    No, because they are free cost the taxpayer millions and millions.

    FTFY

    Private schools are not run for profit!

    Tell that to some I have worked with this year, here and abroad.

    My Mrs works as an unqualified teacher in a local private school. If she was full time she’d be on £20k more than me as a state school teacher at the top of the pay scale

    If she were qualified, then she could work in a state school in Scotland, and would be on that pay scale.

    £17k+ per pupil per year that a state education would otherwise cost the taxpayer

    Sauce?

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    £17k?

    More like £4-6k…

    https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8937

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    We all benefit from a well-educated populace, and absenting yourself from your responsibility to others should be outlawed.

    Sorry what do you mean? Are you suggesting that a kid going to private school is harmful to the rest of society?

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    No it’s political dogma. Makes zero economic sense and does not do what is says on the tin. Classic SNP divergence tactic though – the Nationalist party that is addicted to self national harm

    But your schools and your devolved government – their record on education speaks for itself. Little details tha Danny can avoid but big ones for those who actually care about education.

    avdave2
    Full Member

    One unintended consequence could be the effect on language schools. My partner works for one which has charitable status and I assume many of them are the same. Here in Brighton and where she lives in Eastbourne they are an important part of the local economy and in monetary terms are effectively exporters. If a similar change were to happen here then the result could well be a significant blow to the local economy. It’s not just the fees students pay but all the accomodation costs usually going to local families and all the other ancillary spending by students when they are here.

    duckman
    Full Member

    Even by your “standards” that was some spin, THM. Maybe you should have a sit down,you must be dizzy?

    bodgy
    Free Member
    gonefishin
    Free Member

    No it’s political dogma. Makes zero economic sense and does not do what is says on the tin. Classic SNP divergence tactic though – the Nationalist party that is addicted to self national harm

    Yeah we should all be doing our best to maintain what is in effect a partial subsidy of private education…

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    their record on education speaks for itself

    Sauce?

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