Those of you that dont think there’s an underclass. Where do you think those, to take an example, that are wasting their life on the dole fit in? They can hardly be called WORKING class now can they?

You conveniently forgot to mention the “future rapists, murderers and armed robbers and those that ended up in prison”.

Some of those. Also, I went to a school (rough as **** East End comp) which produced all manner of doctors, lawyers, nurses, teachers, IT specialists, bankers and at least one especially gifted concert cellist….

elf – there definitely is an underclass formed since the 70s. They look different, speak in a different way have different fashions and names

Chavs down south, neds up here

TJ, do they wear tracksuit bottoms, live on council estates and speak in strong regional dialects associated with less desirable parts of the country?

And lets not forget the so called single mums, with tattoos above there coin slots, holding onto a tax free benson bomber,whilst waiting for there 3 kids all by different dads, to come out of school so they can get in there pre paid taxi,and get home so mum can finish the latest level of halo whilst dominos bring tea for the kids,because dad number 4 hasn’t finished in the bookies trying to double his giro.

Lovely exhibition of snobbishness there merchant banker

As all ways T.J you missed the irony.

You did actually TJ.

And you haven’t answered my question….

woosh

And just for the record i grew up in mosside near inner city manchester. and when i was 14 my parents split so we moved to benchill in wythenshaw so not snobbish at-all if anything just angry.

Elfin. here is no irony there because those people do exist. There are lots of them round here.

Tj;

Answer

the

question.

Send the kid to a proper school man, it’ll toughen him up. When he’s 16 and some scally tries to rob him of his ipod, or whatever kids’ll have then, you’ll be thankful.

This is an easy question. You have to do what you think is the best and what gives your kids the best start for them.
I went to a private boarding secondary school in England for 7 years. The first years were hard but it was a great place. I cant thank my parents enough for the massive sacrifices they made.

Elf – thats the sterotype. Teh reality is more complex but a distinct underclass has appeared. Clearly visible round here

My eldest boy has just started at a fee paying school and is loving it. I honestly believe he will get a better standard of education so it is worth the effort. He is in a class of 15 so gets lots of attention from the staff, he has chance to do lots of different sports and there are loads of extra-curricular activities that are teaching he a great deal. It is a sacrifice both financially and emotionally but this is outweighed by the benefits.

Dogsby

The Underclass.

On Friday I finished early and went into town (Home Counties, largish market town), as I walked through a pedestrian area I passed a large pub with seating outside. They were all there, fat mums with tattoos and numerous kids through to drug-thin blokes and the usual (ugly) folk on cheap lager and fags in the sun.

There just seem so many wasters now, and this coming from someone who grew up in a depressed Northern town in the late 70’s / early 80’s.

(Puts on tracksuit bottoms. Toddles off to Bargain Booze. Realises it’s now too late to take back the Foucault and Dostoevsky books he borrowed from the public library. Rues the fact a twenty pence fine per book will now be payable)

Elfin don’t bite.

I don’t want to be misunderstood, kids do mix with all kinds in state education but they do in life as well. My point was the standard of education is no better in private schools than comps, it’s just that comps deal with society as a whole not just the well off element.

I think there’s a good chance of meeting your fair share of rapists, murderers, tax avoiders, financial wheeler dealers and future MPs in the private system so there’s no guarantee your child will not be in the presence of evil.

I’ve ended up living 5 miles from my old prep school and am wondering if I should send my son there when he’s old enough. The local decent secondary school is over subscribed and the alternative isn’t so great so not sure what we’ll do. If I carry on in my current employment I’ll be able to afford it but the schools are expensive here – Cobham/Leatherhead. Definitely don’t want to move house – moving costs would be far too much.

The fallacy is that paying a load of money will make everything better. I went to a private school, the teaching was OK up to O level but the teachers were out of their depth at A level. I retook them at the local college and the teaching was way better.

My sister went to a private school she is not thick but she left with no A levels. She sends her kids to private school for the same ideological reasons have been stated above “it costs and the people are more like us therefore it must be better”. Yet all they have learnt so far is talk with an affected accent.

I teach A levels at a college and every year you get kids coming from the local, well regarded, public schools to take or retake their A levels. They are no better and often worse educated than the kids who did not have the extra £100K wasted on them.

ivixxiv. That’s uncalled for.

ivixxiv – I’ve reported your post big boy.

Thanks, Surrounded and CG. 🙂

I think the problem with the emerging ‘underclass’ (such a horrible expression) is that there are entire communities who’ve suffered from very poor educational opportunities, in the 80s and 90s. The children of this generation are growing up in households where just getting by takes precedent over the needs for decent educational standards. I have witnessed this where I grew up; the parents, often very poorly educated, simply don’t have the resources or know-how to bring their kids up to value education. Heavy unemployment and lack of real opportunities to succeed have helped produced a new social strata where crime and scamming are the only methods they know will bring them the material assets they believe they need. Invariably, the lack of education has left the parents unable to get decent jobs, let alone embark on ‘careers’, and therefore they aren’t equipped with the ability or social resources to help nurture their own kids in a particularly positive manner. Hence the kids, starved of the stimulus at home yet still hungry for knowledge, will seek such stimulus in other often unacceptable and negative ways.

I find it sad that so many people look down on the disaffected and disadvantaged, and treat them without much respect. No surprise then that the ‘Chavs’ become defensive and antagonistic towards others.

Most of us on here are probbly fortunate enough to have had at least a reasonable education, if not always a brilliant home life, and we value the importance of education for the young. Education is vital for a person’s development, in both mind and social responsibility.

How do we sort it? By investing in the education of all our children, paying special attention to the needs of the disadvantaged. Give every child a fair crack at building for their own future. I can’t think how the economically divisive nature of our education system, as it stands currently, is going to bring about any significant change in the near future. 🙁

I think its more about worklessness than education although the “choice?” agenda in schools has not helped them

Equality of opportunity would be a good start

look down on the disaffected and disadvantaged

In some cases you really can’t help some people. Everyone should be encouraged to do their best even if that’s not much academically but some don’t want to be helped and will always be a burden to society

Well, a good education can equip a person with more abilities, and therefore more choices. Can be the difference between having opportunities being available, or being constrained by lack thereof.

I know people of all classes and backgrounds. In my experience, the children of the better educated people already enjoy advantages that those of the not so well educated don’t. They tend to go to better schools, and even other things being equal, can rely on economic stability at home. This tends to bring increased emotional stability as well. It pains me (and invariably the better educated of my friends) that money is almost always the difference between a good start and one that isn’t so good. Having said that, I’ve friends from extremely tough backgrounds who’ve really worked hard to become better educated and give themselves more choice, and they’ve worked themselves to positions worthy of the respect of anyone. It’s just a much tougher path to have to follow.

but some don’t want to be helped and will always be a burden to society

I think you really underestimate the potential in people. I believe that only a tiny number of people, mainly through no fault of their own (such as disability or illness), are in fact a ‘burden’ on society, and anyway, sod it; society has a duty to support those who are unable to do so themselves.

I really don’t think anyone is truly content to be a ‘burden’ or a ‘scrounger’, it’s just for too many, this is the sad reality of their existence, and they cannot see a way out of their situation, much less have the means to actually improve it themselves.

Just research it like any other purchase, and don’t care what others say. You want the best, which is fine and nothing to be ashamed about.

You want the best for your kids and don’t really care about wider society, which is something to be ashamed about in my book. Sorry.

so paying is the only option.

lol

If you want to send your kids to a private school then fine, but be honest about your motivation, and don’t dress it up as ‘the only option’.

With the money we’ve saved from NOT sending our child to a private school we have been able to work fewer hours and spend much more quality time with him. That surely is as important as what happens in school?
How d’ya do a smiley face whatsit?
PS, he loves his state Secondary and is really proud of it!