Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 89 total)
  • Prison system failing ?
  • kimbers
    Full Member

    So it seems like decades of underinvestment is finally reaching breaking point, apparently its easier to get drugs inside than outside most prisons?

    we were warned only last week that the system was falling apart

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-11-02/bloodbath-jails-dangerous-for-everyone-head-of-prison-officers-association-warns/

    and its not just prisoners that are damaged by this society as a whole suffers

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/07/two-prisoners-escape-from-londons-pentonville-prison

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/07/bedford-prison-riot-recent-inspection-found-unacceptable-conditions

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xad7rZifF6c[/video]

    and of course wasnt Gove our last justice secretary?
    now replaced with ‘not bovered about attacks on judiciary’ Truss?

    Ultimately Austerity (aka ideological destruction of the state) has been a huge, huge mistake,

    just5minutes
    Free Member

    I don’t get why they don’t install mobile phone jammers in British prisons – it would immediate halt much of the communication associated with smuggling in legal highs, drugs etc etc, arranging drone drops etc. It seems remarkably short sighted given prisons in other countries did this years ago and managed to do so without completely trashing neighbourhood phone coverage.

    Trimix
    Free Member

    Either spend a fortune on staff and prisoner training / healthcare / education etc.

    Or spend nothing and remove all their rights and keep them locked up and out of sight.

    We don’t do either so this problem appears every year. Add to this the fact politicians want to come across as tough on crime to get voted in, so we lock people up for a few weeks / months.

    Gone are the days when you could ship them off to some distant colony.

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    El-bent
    Free Member

    now replaced with ‘not bovered about attacks on judiciary’ Truss?

    Truss is a weakling. She’ll do whatever May wants her to. In any government the lord chancellor has a duty to ensure that judges are properly protected from political attack and are able to act independently — and that the government itself always acts in accordance with the law.

    The lord chancellor has to be someone with the weight and stature to stand up to the prime minister or the home secretary when, for instance, they want to compromise on complying with the law in an attempt to placate the public.

    The Constitutional Reform Act 2005 says that the prime minister can only appoint someone who appears to be qualified by experience. The lord chancellor is the only job in cabinet where there are personal conditions, laid down by statute, which have to be satisfied by the holder.

    There is no one who could possibly suggest that Ms Truss met the bar set by that law.

    Gone are the days when you could ship them off to some distant colony.

    You make it sound like you miss those days.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    I don’t get why they don’t install mobile phone jammers in British prisons –

    Well #1 it’s currently illegal and #2 it’s very hard to make sure you don’t end up blocking outside the prison as well and we have a lot of prisons inside towns / cities.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    You just can’t get the quality of inmate anymore. We should blame the foreigners,

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Was it ever succeeding?

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    Looks like they need newer phones – the footage could have been shot on an old Nokia! 😀

    jimdubleyou
    Full Member

    I don’t get why they don’t install mobile phone jammers in British prisons

    #1 it’s currently illegal[/quote]

    Would be quite easy (& legal) to install detectors though…

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Looks like they need newer phones – the footage could have been shot on an old Nokia!

    Which would you rather stick up your arse ?

    This

    or this?

    and then don’t forget you need to get one of these inside too.

    I had never given this any consideration until I was on a visit to a now close Prison, and one of the nurses mentioned it!

    El-bent
    Free Member

    Which would you rather stick up your arse ?

    😆

    Brilliant.

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    On the plus side for (fictional) prisoners, within weeks their (fictional) Christmas Lunch Menu will be (fictionally) leaked to one of the gutter tabloids, usually the Express, so the hard of thinking can go back to telling everyone they’re all like Butlin’s these days.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Simple answer – lock up less people. Too many folk are inside for drugs / stupidity / not paying fines. Prison simply does nothing for these people. Then there would be enough money inthe system to do more than simply warehouse them ie education. behaviour modification course and the like.

    would need investment in non custodial sentancing tho.

    We lock up more people for smaller offences than almost anywhere except the US – and guess what – our re-offending rates are worse. Put an inexperienced crim in jail and he comes out an experienced crim

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    tjagain – Member

    Simple answer – lock up less people.

    Agreed, even something a relatively simple as Cannabis legalisation would be a huge help, less prisoners to deal with, less Police work and a lot more taxation.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    God damn it, tj is back and I’m agreeing with him!

    Legalise drugs, reduce the cost of policing drugs and invest it in educating and rehabilitating prisoners to reduce reoffending.

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    and of course wasnt Gove our last justice secretary?

    He just inherited the mess Grayling started. He let 1000’s off staff go on voluntary redundancy but ‘forgot’ to replace them. Then they decided to do a bit of recruiting but offer new staff ‘fair & sustainable’ conditions, ie, start on 19K going up to 23k (doing exactly the same job as me on 29K) & now they wonder why they can’t keep new staff & older, more experienced staff are desperate to get out. They can’t recruit fast enough. (I know this cos a guy on the recruiting team told me)

    Phones….you’d be surprise at what a desperate con get get up his arse & also at how they charge them, like they don’t often have a 3 pin plug on the end.

    Phone detectors…we have them but the batteries are usually flat or you can’t even detect a detector in the first place!

    We had a union meeting last week & it showed that there’s no confidence in our senior management team. Our no 1 governor has been there since January & I’ve seen her on my wing twice. I’ve never seen the dep at all in the same time. We have trouble getting stuff like cleaning materials & mattresses but the outside of the jail is immaculate. She’s spent a fortune on nice blue shale for the outside grounds & inside is falling apart.
    This is typical throughout the service, management are shite.
    The jobs foooked & It’s going to take some putting right

    irc
    Full Member

    I don’t get why they don’t install mobile phone jammers in British prisons –

    Well #1 it’s currently illegal

    Not in Scotland. And as far as I know mobile phone laws are not devolved.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26140476

    Though it appears the expensive blocking system isn’t working.

    http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2015/12/16/phone-seizures-up-at-shotts-after-mobile-blocking-system-brought-in/

    Northwind
    Full Member

    FunkyDunc – Member

    Which would you rather stick up your arse ?

    Which one has the strongest vibration mode?

    codybrennan
    Free Member

    just5minutes – Member
    I don’t get why they don’t install mobile phone jammers in British prisons – it would immediate halt much of the communication associated with smuggling in legal highs, drugs etc etc, arranging drone drops etc. It seems remarkably short sighted given prisons in other countries did this years ago and managed to do so without completely trashing neighbourhood phone coverage.

    Tried and failed:

    Prisoners outwit £1.2m mobile phone blocking technology

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    You just can’t get the quality of inmate anymore. We should blame the foreigners,

    Have you seen some of the breakdowns of prison population by nationality ?

    @cody rumours that US has been using that technology in aircraft over Syria and Iraq and when target list phones connect they can use the info for Drone strikes. Couod be a myth but sounds believable

    mooman
    Free Member

    MoreCashThanDash – Member
    … invest it in educating and rehabilitating prisoners to reduce reoffending.

    In theory this sounds great.
    But when the government does not want to spend out on education for those that have not offended – it seems unreasonable to expect those in prison to be first in line for it.

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    Have you seen some of the breakdowns of prison population by nationality ?

    Any link, save me looking?

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Fair point mooman. Investing in education may reduce the numbers going into prison in the first place, of course.

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    Fair point mooman. Investing in education may reduce the numbers going into prison in the first place, of course.

    Do I detect a hint of sarcasm in that MCTD? 😉

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    It’s ok now, they’re going to (try &) recruit up to 2500 new prison officers.
    To replace the 5000+ that Grayling let go when he was justice secretary. (That dickhead should be asked for a ‘please explain’).
    I’ve seen some of the new staff coming in & it’s ridiculous, young lasses who don’t seem long out of high school & very nervous, young lads who put a prison officers uniform on & think theyr’e ‘the boss’ (which is asking for trouble anyway) A few more mature people who stay in the job for 6 months then decide it ain’t worth it (23-25K)
    The source of the prison crisis, & don’t let anyone tell you it isn’t in crisis, is lack of mature wing staff & funding for other rehabilitation related issues/courses (is that the right phrase for a dopey screw to use?) Plus, more than 80% of prisoners have mental health issues, some very serious & dangerous to others, some with more minor issues. Do we get any training regarding this? No, not a bit, zilch/nada. We have to treat everyone the same because we can’t & don’t know how to deal with prisoners with those problems.

    It’s really exasperating trying to explain the job people who’ve never done the job, sorry if it hasn’t come across as I wanted it to.

    poly
    Free Member

    Too many folk are inside for … … not paying fines.

    How many people do you think are inside for not paying fines at any point in time (Beware of any stats you might find on this – if someone is sentenced to a custodial sentence they often have any outstanding fines “converted” to a concurrent prison sentence – but they aren’t an extra person in custody as a result. e.g. in Scotland, of a total population of about ~8k prisoners the average number serving a sentence just for fine default is < 10 at any one time.)?

    What ultimate sanction do you propose for people who refuse to pay fines (or comply with any other sentence)?

    In fact <10% of prisoners at any time are serving a sentence of <12 months; that suggests there are probably relatively few “trivial” offences resulting in custodial sentences.

    bails
    Full Member

    By coincidence, look what’s on the BBC news site:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37904263

    The Dutch prison population is falling so much (seemingly because their rehabilitation works) that they’re renting out prison space to other countries.

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    Wow, 2 more posts about my job. Neither of which relate to anything that prison staff face every single day.
    Ah well, never mind eh? I suppose you have to be an actual screw to even appreciate what’s happening inside. Not that anyone seems to give a ****.

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    you have my sympathy . I could not do it .

    poly
    Free Member

    Wow, 2 more posts about my job. Neither of which relate to anything that prison staff face every single day.

    My post wasn’t intended to. It was a reply to TJ’s ill founded statement about the root cause of the problem.

    oldtalent
    Free Member

    6x6x6 windowless cell for 23.5 hours a day would fix it. Plus hanging of course.

    bails
    Full Member

    Sorry egf, was that aimed at me? My post wasn’t an attack on you or your profession at all. It was a genuine coincidence that I read the article on the BBC and then saw this thread.

    I think it kind of backs up what you’re saying about rehabilitation being important.

    captainsasquatch
    Free Member

    Last contact I had with prison staff professionals, they struggled to understand the difference between inside and outside.
    Is there a problem?
    I doubt it. 😆

    bamboo
    Free Member

    Essel – a genuine thanks for your posts. It is very interesting to hear your view, my wife is a public servant who’s area is underfunded and under attack by the government and it is easy to draw parallels

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    Sorry guys, I went to bed! I wasn’t aiming anything at anyone, simply pointing out what the cause of the current crisis actually is (Cameron/Grayling) & highlighting a few things the public simply don’t know about because the service is only newsworthy when a major incident takes place. No-one hears about the assaults on staff that occur on a daily basis or the amount of cell damage that happens in every prison, every day… I could go on & on.
    We had a close call on D wing last week when 22 out of 30 prisoners were involved in a period of concerted indiscipline. 2 staff were alone on the wing spur when the alarm went & other members had to leave their posts & other colleagues at risk to help & losing the wing was a real possibility. That wasn’t in any newspaper that I know of.

    Every day something like this is going off.

    Apologies if anyone thought I was having a go but It’s frustrating when people don’t know or give a shit! 😕

    kimbers
    Full Member

    I think the problem is – out of sight out of mind, re prisons

    Tough job egf. Know a guy who is a prison officer and it changed him a lot.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/12/staff-shortages-british-prisons-bedford-pentonville-truss

    This year has seen the highest number of self-inflicted deaths in prison on record,

    Society as a whole pays for this, austerity is a disaster.

    ahwiles
    Free Member

    … austerity is a disaster…

    Poor people, and the vulnerable, are suffering. This is how it should be, Austerity is working.

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    That Guardian link is pretty accurate but I still love the way the prison service say they’re are recruiting ‘2500 EXTRA staff’. That’s still 2500 LESS than we had 5 years ago & we have a bigger population.
    Staff shortages & ‘detached duty’ (where staff are sent to another establishment) has been going on since 2011/12

    Frankenstein
    Free Member

    Overloaded system without maintenance or expansion or investment = disaster.

    So that’s prisons, schools, NHS and social services.

    Nothing wrong with that if you’re a millionaire…

    kimbers
    Full Member

    The Torys really do know how to bring a system down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-38341924

    The legacy here is that rehabilitation is even further off for these prisoners

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 89 total)

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