It is rather like an Asian calling someone British a German, isn’t it?

Hmm, never really considered the similarity, but yes, I suppose so.

Bangladeshis and Pakistanis do get on quite well round here, actually. I think it’s because they are mostly Muslim. I know there can be tensions towards Sikhs and Hindus, which is sad.

I love the way that people who are not from a particular race can call something that people call members of that race ‘not racist’.

(re-reads sentence and not sure he understands it himself)

It’s like me saying ‘I can’t see what the problem is, some bloke at work called a welsh person a “cottage-burning leek-crunching inbred baby-killing retard” and everyone’s up in arms. That’s not offensive, it’s just long-hand for ‘Welsh’.’
Whereas if I were a welshy, I’d probably find that a bit of a sweeping generalisation.

so Tandem how is an asian run corner shop different from any other? I use the term asian shop for the ones near me that sell lots of funny shaped fruit and curry powder and would think that the people running them would be within their rights to be offended if I went up to them and said “hows the **** shop today mate”. I dont understand why you need to bring race into the discription of a corner shop. I’ve got a white mate who runs a corner shop I dont call it a white shop or brit shop, because its not useful in describing it.

3 generations of them work in it and the two younger generations have Edinburgh accents.

I was at uni with a lad from Edinburgh called Colin, who was of Chinese descent. When I first met him, I’d got all ready for a Chinese accent so couldn’t understand what on Earth he was saying, until I realised he had a “Scottish” accent.

A pal of mine from the northeast said he was “popping down the **** shop”, I was gobsmacked and told him “you can’t say that”.

He was just as surprised that I was shocked.

I suspect that casual/unthinking racism is just more acceptable in some parts of the country, perhaps where there’s been less immigration?

chapaking, was that because he was actually off to Waitrose?

Its funny though what people dont realise, my boss, constantly and I mean constantly waffles on about it being grim up north, everytime I mention I went back to the midlands this weekend to see mates/family or what ever. Now its not really offenive at all but it does start to grate after a while (especially as I’m from the **** MIDLANDS you retard!!!) and the fact that he is my boss makes it worse, now I’m sure he’d be upset and sorry if I pointed it out but he really doesnt seem to understand. The fact that he’s in a position of power makes it worse. I think it may be the same as Harry using ****, its his position that makes it worse.

especially as I’m from the **** MIDLANDS you retard!!!

And that’s in the south, as everyone knows.

exactly us midlanders get it from both ends, so to speak.

angallis – I wasn’t defending the practice and as I said its not a term I now use.

The “small corner shop open all hours” is something I have never seen run by anyone but folk from the subcontinent. “**** shop” became a common use shorthand for this – certainly in Manchester / Glasgow / Edinburgh where I have lived. I am talking about something that goes back decades – into the 70’s when folk were not as aware of the racist connotations as they are now.

“Asian Grocers” – to distinguish this type of shop that is actually useful and open all ours and belongs to a subtype of shop usually run by asians?

Sloppy use of language and I posted it to see others views on it.

no anagallis, the fact that you say it grates, yet haven’t even raised it with him is what makes it worse. Don’t whine about something you’re in a position to change yet have made no effort to.

But yes, to most right thinking people, the midlands is as good as north.

Naive, not malicious or racist IMO.

But the worse thing is that it was reported like it was the “crime of century”.

I continue to ignore journalism.

Overheard one of my cousins children saying to my daughter “You’re not allowed to call me a ****” By way of an introduction once, (both were about 4/5 at the time) Ohhh the ruckus….. 🙂

Pk ripper – midlands is way down south.

A friend of mine from Manchester came to a party I held in Edinburgh. He was most put out to be introduced to folk as “my pal from down south”

but TJ, i would probably introduce you as the chap that lives next door to Santa, you’re that far north!

in fact, have you unionised his elf-workshops?!

no anagallis, the fact that you say it grates, yet haven’t even raised it with him is what makes it worse.

sorry dont agree, I find in a small way someone being derogatory abaout my origins offensive and I’m worse than him because I dont challenge him on it I’m worse. How? Why? Can I go round calling people a **** and unless they take offense consider them worse than me?

Ok, twist it round. If I used a word that was derogatory about someones origins, and they took offence, yet freely admitted they could have a word with me and i’d stop, you know what, I’d hope that you’d have that word with me. It doesn’t sound like it’s this chaps intention to offend, if it was, you could have him for all sorts under employment law.

The north / south thing has long been a stalwart of british humour – watch pretty much any panel comedy show these days and you’ll get mention of it. Therefore if you’re not prepared to at least raise it, when you freely admit that it will fix it, and you’ll get an apology, then I really think you need to grow a spine.

i think there are 2 issues here
harry obviously doesnt mix much with asian people, have a few asian friends and have been out with them when people have called them ****, some seem to brush it off some are visibly upset and hurt for that reason i would never use the word
the other issue is that the army is surely the last bastion of bigotry and testosterone fueled boisterousness in the land and how can u ask men to go out and blow the cr@p out of other soldiers and the innevitable civilians etc and also say by the way u cant swear or be offensive in any way or can you?

I just watched the vid of Harry making the remarks the way he says it..My Little **** Friend doesnt sound like hes talking about a mate. He obviously cannot admit to it being racist being a royal, I am sure Grandad will give him advice on how to ride out the storm and how not to refer to his oriental friends.I suppose Harrys argument will be he gets ribbed about being Ginger which could also be offensive, perhaps racist.

oh yeah and ‘**** shop’ just shows that someone is very ignorant or very racist

as for mocking harry where to begin…
how about “wheres your mother gone?”
the obvious ginger jibes
and dont even start on the fact that everyone in the entire country knows that his dad aint his dad

I see his step dad’s entered the fray now as it turns out he calls one of his Asian polo pals ‘sooty’. No info yet as to if Sooty calls Charles ‘Big ears’.

IanMunro – very good.

I’m suprised they didn’t manage to Sweep this under the carpet. Perhaps the asian polo guy will Sue HRH now.

I blame the Pakistanis.

If they hadn’t chosen a 4 syllable word to describe themselves in the first place, they would not have a problem now.

.

Anyway, is the term ‘Pak’ ok to use ?

After all it’s a term which Pakistanis themselves use, eg Pak Chat and Pak Butchers

Perhaps it’s time now for Pakistanis to reclaim the word ‘****’. In that way it will cease to be an insult.

Calling someone ‘black’ was once a huge insult. But when black people started to call themselves ‘black’ (because being black was nothing to be ashamed of) it ceased to be an insult.

Calling someone a **** to their face is, without a shadow of a doubt, highly offensive. But is saying to your mate, “I’m popping down to the **** take-away, want something?” unacceptable ? Nah – get real ffs.

As is often the case in life, “common-sense” dictates what is, and what is not, acceptable.

Surely the term ‘Pakistani’ refers to a nationality rather than a race, so therefore not ‘racist’?

…of course I ment the abbreviated version of ‘Pakistani’…

‘meant’,even…

(Time for bed, methinks…)

Surely the term ‘Pakistani’ refers to a nationality rather than a race, so therefore not ‘racist’?

But it’s applied to a race when used to refer to brown people.

Is Harry a racist or an idiot?

How about he’s neither? He’s a young man in the army, and hopefully has better things to do with his time than bother about the usual groups of professional victims queuing up desperate to be offended.

tj (and myself) are hardly in the frozen north,

there’s miles left of scotland above us.
so i would say your from the south, not the midlands…

its from perspective really…

and as for the original topic, its just an abreviation of pakistani, as said.
its how the word is used.

kennyp; I’m not a ‘professional victim’. I am of part Asian origin, however, and am offended by the use of the word Harry used, when applied to me in a derogatory or abusive context. As I have gone to some length, to explain.

As I’ve said numerous times, now, I don’t believe Harry was being ‘racist’, but his casual use of such a word, towards an Asian person, reveals his ignorance and naiveté. To me, his attitude towards the sleeping ‘victim’ did seem a little condescending, but I would expect that from someone who believes he is in line to the throne (he surely must know Charles is not his real dad?). I suppose a certain arrogance and aloofness comes with such ‘privilege’.

If Harry had referred to me as his ‘little **** friend’, I would not have been particularly happy. However, I am not the soldier in question, so therefore cannot speak for him.

I reckon Harry is guilty of far more serious crimes.

Masquerading as royalty, for one…

Just a thought, but how come some people get away with calling Afghanistanis ‘Afghan’ ?

Not that I would obviously.

Well ….. not to their face anyway.

RudeBoy, I wasn’t meaning you, but there are people in this country off all colours, genders, whatever, that seem increasingly keen to be seen to be offended.

The young man referred to be Harry was a trainee officer being prepared to go off to war. The fact that a friend and fellow officer had called him what some people think is a rude word was probably not of the slightest interest to him. If he’s been accepted for officer training then he’s almost certainly got far greater things to think about.

As far as I can tell he’s never claimed to have been offended. However there are lots of folk keen to be offended on his behalf (and unasked).

I’m Scottish and British. It doesn’t bother me in the least being called a Jocko or a Brit or whatever, even if the person calling me the name is trying to be offensive. As far as I’m concerned they are more than likely jealous. I just laugh it off, which I’m sure is what this young officer did.

An inexcusable term and Harry was foolish to use it.. but the media’s appetite for this kind of [/i]Daily Hate non-story is by far the most crass thing. I mean, perhaps the tabloids will lead tomorrow with some insightful analysis of how the Pakistan/Afghan border is more complex than negotiating spaghetti junction on acid – or maybe not. I’m not disputing various “institutional” (read: bullying of any kind) issues in the army, but FFS, it’s an operational environment incredibly far removed from most peoples’ lives – with all the black humour and (whisper it) bad language that implies.