If said “victim” was shocked/traumatised etc by the incident, why didn’t he complain at the time a

To who? How? One is in the to the throne you know. If your overseas in Pakistan how do you do spoke colloquial racial insults?

Who cares? Inbred toff shown to hold childish racist views. Whats more sad is people dying or maimed for the ‘Queen’ on pisspoor salaries.

2) If said “victim” was shocked/traumatised etc by the incident, why didn’t he complain at the time and

Said victim was asleep at the time!

Anyone got a video of him being call “ginger nut” by fellow cadets they want to sell to redress the balance?

On the video we did hear someone asking Harry if his pubes were ginger too. Does that count?

There isn’t a vendetta against Prince Harry, he’s just inherited his grandfather’s gift for diplomacy.

The tabloid hacks love him in fact, because he’s the most down to earth, blokey royal they’ve ever met – and he really wanted to see some action rather than be the token royal soldier.

Anyone going to defend his use of raghead? Please.

Lets hope, in his own way he will be as understanding as RudeBoy

😯 Good Lord.

I think we are all, at times, guilty of transgressions against others. And we must question our attitudes, and ask if we are right, to think the way we do.

I have seldom used racist language or terms, against others. The last time I did, was probably over 20 years ago. I have ‘banter’ between close friends, but am more derogatory about myself, than anyone else is! One of me mates, a black guy, is absolutly terrible. Says the worst things, about black people. But it’s like that kind of Richard Pryor style self-deprecation, where you say such bad things about yourself, nothing anyone else says can possibly be worse. You should hear some of my Jewish friends! Terrible!

You can only really have that, with people you really trust, though. People who know the boundaries, and know when to draw the line.

Maybe Harry and his mates had that kind of thing going on. Which is why I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

I find the cynical sensationalisation of this story, by the NOTW etc, to be a lot more disturbing.

i]The last thing i’d want representing the UK would be someone brought up on a diet of x-factor and big brother.[/i] … with an elected government you can have a say. Don’t think you can with the royal family, I do remember t a report that his grandparents preference was to watch slapstick comdey, which is far superior to x-factor 🙂

The Metaliica cover of SFW lyrics come to mind

Here but not work safe

I haven’t read all of this.

Pakistan means “Land of (the) Pure” in Urdu and Farsi.

Tajikistan means the “Land of the Tajiks” in Persian.

The name Afgh?nist?n translates to the “Land of Afghans”.

Guess what “Uzbekistan” means.

The inhabitants of “Pakistan” are, in some sense, “****”, and when they so describe themselves it appears to be by way of congratulating themselves on being such a great country having shoved out all the hindus. I’m not suggesting that going around calling people “****” should be encouraged, but the etymology is reasonable enough.

😕

etymology you cant go around using words like that in this day and age

Having watched the video, and read the article, it’s a complete non-story as far as I’m concerned. The army, as skid-mark has pointed out does have elements that can be perceived as racist, but equally, that’s part of the bonding element within it – you bond with the people you’re working with there, as they’re the ones that’ll have your back in a firefight. I’m personally not in the army, so I don’t know how this evolved, how endemic it is, or the tone / intent in which it’s generally used. And yes, the army is an old school establishment, and the vast majority of any operations overseas, with a live and active enemy will encourage the use of derogatory terminology to describe those “enemies”. And that will be blanket terminology.

It’s 3 year-old footage, the family of the guy who’s referred to have openly said it’s was never mentioned, and equally, others from that family have been in the british forces. None of this has been raised until this video arrives.

Whilst I can accept that this term may be considered offensive, and it’s not one I personally use for that very reason, I do very much object to the removal of words etc from use because some people take offence, and that is a far bigger issue. As has been said clearly, it’s the intent that’s the problem, not the word. In this instance, I don’t believe that there was any real intention to offend, it’s more a combination of naivity from Harry and malice from the video poster.

But equally, that’s part of the evolution of language. Words that are in common use can have different meanings over time, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a bad thing. Look at the evolution of the word “gay” – it’s been rapid over the last 30 years or so, and different groups of people use it with different connotations.

What I also object to is the reactionary stance of all the racial equality groups etc, calling for heads to role, claiming total moral outrage and the like, as they may have an element of a point, but are solutions being offered? At the present time, with the economic climate as it is, job security at a pretty low level, and a perceived loss of immigration control equally promoted by the media (the same media that’s suddenly bashing harry over this) I have a fear that we will see increasing racial conflict over the next couple of years. That’s a pretty scary thought, but one that can only be avoided by understanding and tolerance from all sides. That’s what I fear we’re losing, and this story just adds fuel to both sides.

That’s my opinion, whether you agree with it or not is another thing altogether.

The excuses, I find more distasteful.

He said he regarded “**** as an abbreviation” and the prince, in his mind, had “not crossed the line”.

If I needed to refer to a pakistani I knew I’d abbreivate to **** too. Same for ausies, yanks, wops, paddies, taffs, jocks and brits. I wouldn’t use the abbreviation to someone I didn’t know but someone I knew, sure.

Why’s it rascist?

Who cares? Inbred toff shown to hold childish racist views

😆 oh the irony.

“Look at the evolution of the word “gay” – it’s been rapid over the last 30 years or so, and different groups of people use it with different connotations.”

Without wanting to open a general debate on “gay”, presumably it would be more offensive to call someone who was in no way, shape or form pakistani if you did it so as to label them with whatever racist connotations you would usually say applied to “****”. So, if I think “****” are, say, smelly, sadistic and illiterate wife-beaters, calling them “****” is less than charming, but my racist intent is actually much more obvious if I call Wayne Rooney a “****”. 😕

If I needed to refer to a pakistani I knew I’d abbreivate to **** too

What, as in ‘I’m off down the **** shop, want anything?’

‘Bloke at work’s a ****; his wife makes a lovely curry’.

I can’t see anything inherently wrong with the use of the abbreviation, in such contexts. There’s no malice or abuse intended.

(Although ‘****’ shop often means a paper shop, grocers, off-licence; I’ve found the term is used merely because the shop in question is being run by Asians/Pakistanis)

But I somehow doubt you’d be too willing to use it in a place like Bradford, or Stepney, for example.

Sheldona; if, what you mean by posting that link, is that you personally don’t care, that’s fine (why bother posting on the thread at all, is what I’m wondering), but I, and obviously several others, do care.

PK; that’s a pretty balanced and well-thought out piece, actually. Thank you.

wally not racist.
Plus it was 3 years ago – dontr think anyone can argue that he hasnt grown up considerably since then.
Its right for the army to conduct a review but cant think of any positives that can be gained from taking it any further.

Bigdummy, oh dont be gay! 😛

But I somehow doubt you’d be too willing to use it in a place like Bradford, or Stepney, for example.

Because nobody would know which shop you were talking about?

(Although ‘****’ shop often means a paper shop, grocers, off-licence; I’ve found the term is used merely because the shop in question is being run by Asians/Pakistanis)

I think that’s where ignorance (racism?) comes through – calling all brown-skinned people ****, as if they’re all from the same place. I’d say it was generally ignorance, rather than racism, though. Similar to calling a maccam a geordie?

Can we not just call everyone who doesnít have a valid up to date British passport Jonnie Foreigner? Like we used to before the PC brigade got a voice. Then we wonít leave anyone out and therefore should end this whole debate in one giant flag waving, Rule Britannia singing, cricket bat swinging, Port sipping, square bashing parade.

Or he could just say sorry and we go back to Gaza for some real news.

UK os so PC it’s boring. There are the Frogs, the Poles, the Jews, but try to say anything about a non-European and/or their culture and you’re called a racist.

You lot will end up without right to say anything whilst people like myself, foreigners, will be allowed whatever they choose.

The young Prince said what many think but are afraid of saying. He’s NOT stupid, malicious or wrong. It’s the BBC, The Sun and politicians who should shut up, not him.

And just the fact you talk about someone saying what Lib-Dems find offensive is worrying.

Can we not just call everyone who doesnít have a valid up to date British passport Jonnie Foreigner? Like we used to before the PC brigade got a voice.

Define ‘we’.

miketually, similar, yet different.

I’ll simplify this, as some people appear to be missing the point a little bit:

Us ‘brown-skinned’ people don’t really like to be called ‘****’. We’d prefer it if people didn’t.

I think I can speak for brown people, although myself, I’ve never been anywhere near Pakistan.

I’m from Hackney.

Can we not just call everyone who doesnít have a valid up to date British passport Jonnie Foreigner?

The ‘****’ in question will have a British passport, won’t he? So he’s not a Jonnie Foreigner…

Us ‘brown-skinned’ people don’t really like to be called ‘****’. We’d prefer it if people didn’t.

Seems fair enough.

Miketually – to get a British passport is a piece of cake. Pretty much anyone can have it.
RB – so why do you Brits allow them to call you whatever they please if they’re so blooming sensitive?
It’s the British belief that as a former Empire you should feel guilty, if the media are to be trusted (I know, a big IF). Therefore, if you go to Pakistan you obey their rules, if you go to USA, you respect their laws, but if you live in UK, you don’t give a monkey about not hurting natives.
If you tried it back at home it’d be painful. Here, in London at least, a through-and-through Englishman is victimised constantly, especially by local authorities and officials.
Enough, off the topic.

Eh?
😯

Here, in London at least, a through-and-through Englishman is victimised constantly, especially by local authorities and officials.

Explain, please, because, as a ‘through and through Englishman’, I don’t feel I am constantly victimised.

Fred, what do “brown-skinned” people call the pallid natives of this damp island? I’ve been called a “honkie” and a “white see you next tuesday” by persons of more exotic extraction, but it always sounds a bit forced and silly…

😕

The term ‘Brit’ has never really been seen as offensive

Really???

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Try again.

BigDummy, I think the word in Bengali is ‘Gora’, or ‘Goora’ (pronunciation is a very complex thing, on a subcontinent with over 800 officially recognised languages and dialects). It just means ‘white’. It is sometimes used in a derogatory context. Sorry, I don’t actually speak and Asian language myself, so I can’t tell you about all the others.

IME, Some ‘Asians’ can be some of the most narrow-minded, nasty, xenophobic **** around. The Hindu caste system is based on Biological Determinism, and many other Subcontinental cultures can be very insular and exclusive.

Racism is not the exclusive preserve of white, working class people.

I have, during my life, encountered some disgusting attitudes from people of all colours and creeds. Sadly, it seems ignorance and fear are prevalent in most communities.

through and through Englishman

I don’t think I’m a “through and through Englishman”. My maternal grandad is Scottish and my paternal grandad’s grandad was Irish, so I have an Irish surname*. I’m just lucky not to be a ginger, I suppose 😉

* McTimoney. Apparently, it was made up when he came over here and no trace of him can be found in Ireland. I assume he was in the IRA or something.

Us ‘brown-skinned’ people don’t really like to be called ‘****’

I’m english. I have, on several occasions, been mistaken for an australian. Doesnt bother me. Never even set foot in Aus. As mentioned in a post above, the use of “****” as an insult or in a derogatory fashion (labelling anyone not white as “a ****” for example) is a different kettle of fish.

Indeed, my mother in law, who is a gujarati parsi, once remarked that “at least you are not black”…

😐

Indeed, my mother in law, who is a gujarati parsi, once remarked that “at least you are not black”…

Or ginger.

Or fat.

Unless you ride a full sus, then it’s OK.

BigDummy, I could sit here for hours, and regale you with tales of some of the most horrendous prejudice, that I have encountered from people including members of my own family, but I have to go to the bank, then have other errands to run.

I hate racism and prejudice in all forms, regardless of where it comes from.

You can’t give offense, only take it. All the people on the news are IMO idiots for jumping on the offended band wagon. You need to hear the opinion of the person it was directed to. Lot’s of people have nicknames that other people may find offensive but in fact aren’t to the person involved.

He describes him as his friend so hardly insulting him. It’s just banter amongst friends that was never meant to be public. Oh, and it was 3 years ago?

I laughed when I saw the mock phone call on the news, thought it was very funny.

No one seems to worry when you see the Royals firing machine guns at Muslims
in Afghanistan.

Perhaps they could shout go home Ragheads and go back to Pakistan.

Who ever released it is nowt but a s**t stirrer and beneath contempt. if the full word Pakistani was used, would that be wrong. It’s nothing but an abreviation. Indeed in areas of the Uk where I have worked that have a large asian based community , the word **** in reference to corner shops is common. Amongst those labled by that word. Complete rubbish and I have demeaned my self by rising to it.

My mate who is Pakistani recently referred to himself as a “Blind ****”. There’s regularly a contingent of Pakistani supporters at their cricket matches who have signs saying “PakiPower” etc.

So why is it ok for Pakistanis to refer to themselves as **** when it’s not ok for everyone else? In fairness, the castigation of Prince Harry came from the Pakistani soldier’s uncle and from the self styled “Muslim Council of Britain”.

My view – I wouldn’t call someone a **** and I didn’t like hearing my mate calling himself as such either.

When exactly did **** become offensive? Also, why would it be any worse the calling someone a jock, yank, pom, ozzy, kiwi etc…?

It’s all quite ironic really, if his mum had a better driver than the alcoholic french guy he might have had a ‘raghead’ for a stepdad.