Prince Harry: Racist, or just plain idiot?

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  • Prince Harry: Racist, or just plain idiot?
  • RudeBoy
    Member

    Can’t believe no-ones done this one! A Monday morning special, if ever there was one!

    Prince Harry calls collegue a ‘Paki’

    Personally, being brown of skin myself, I think he’s just an idiot, rather than an out-and-out xenophobe. A very poor choice of word, to refer to a Pakistani or Asian person. But I don’t beleive he meant any serious malice by it. I’ve been called this by ignorant people, who’ve meant no harm. I just explain that I am not comfortable with this word, and they’ve apologised. People can be educated. I’ve also been called this, and worse, by nasty, vile racist ****. I don’t let their ignorance and bigotry get to me. I just feel sorry for them, poor pig-sh1t thick dickheads.

    So, public school education, university etc can’t make up for actually mixing with real people, in the real world, then. I feel sorry for Harry, as he’s always had to live a pretty sheltered life, and mixed only with other upper-class twits. Mind, you’d think that all that taxpayers money would have taught him that you can’t really refer to someone of Asian or Pakistani origin, as a Paki. The word just has too many negative connotations, as does the word Nigger, towards black people, or a plethora of other terms.

    It’s not the word that hurts, it’s the intent. I don’t think Harry intended to hurt anyone, really.

    I liked this bit:

    Although he did not think Prince Harry was a racist, Labour MP Keith Vaz told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that he should spend more time with his father, who had “shown how much can be done to build relations between communities”.

    Funny, I didn’t know James Hewitt worked in Public Relations…

    The excuses, I find more distasteful.

    He said he regarded “Paki as an abbreviation” and the prince, in his mind, had “not crossed the line”.

    Just admit that the incident was a stupid mistake, the use of this word, in this context, was ill-judged and unacceptable, acknowledge the apology, and move on. not being funny, but who tf is this bloke to decide what is and isn’t acceptable, to a Pakistani person? Not for you to decide, mate, sorry. Just keep your mouth shut. And let those who are affected by such use of language, decide.

    What think the STW collective?

    coffeeking
    Member

    Don’t really care, it’s fairly normal amongst friends to use phrases like that that coming from someone else would offend but coming from a mate is a sign of affection. Find out who released the video in order to cause controversy and put them on trial – its obvious that none of the video content was intended for the general population to see.

    will
    Member

    The words “blown” and “out of proportion” spring to mind. Yes he probably shouldn’t have said it, but really…

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    Can’t believe no-ones done this one! A Monday morning special, if ever there was one!

    because its such a non-news event that’s only got traction because the BBC want to pump it to death?

    far more worthwhile things to bicker about in here.

    Premier Icon piedi di formaggio
    Subscriber

    in any case, it was 3 years ago, I’m sure he has grown up a lot since then.

    vimto
    Member

    bumbling upper class bafoon …. who dressed up as a Nazi and calls someone a Paki, I’m noticing a pattern of behaviour here. Racist OR Idiot i find the 2 tend to go hand in hand.

    waihiboy
    Member

    you can’t blame him….

    Stoner – Member
    Can’t believe no-ones done this one! A Monday morning special, if ever there was one!

    because its such a non-news event that’s only got traction because the BBC want to pump it to death?

    You mean rather than talking about the fact the economy’s fooked?

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Both, obviously. Like grandfather, like grandson.

    Only mildly racist, but to use the P-word like that isn’t acceptable and smells of institutional racism (the army) to me.

    Yeah, all of them might call their asian pal that in a friendly way – but he’s hardly going to complain about it and rock the boat is he?

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    We have a friend from school whose dad is from Mauritius. At secondary school he was known as Ramjam because his surname started with “Ram…”, which is probably racist (he was just about the only non-white kid in the school). We still call him RJ 20 years later.

    Is we racists?

    If any other serviing officer had done exactly the same, would it have been “pumped to death” by the BBC et al?

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    institutional racism (the army)

    There are lots of Jocks, Taffs and Scousers in the army.

    Well you could say that it’s proof that the Prince Philip’s genes have skipped a generation and that he truly is Charles’ son;-)

    Personally though I agree with a lot of what’s been said above, it’s been blown out of proportion and the source of the leak was some money grabbing scrote.

    I’ll agree his choice of words could offend some, but if it’s not said with malicious intent then the political correctness police should really be quiet. Besides all that I’m sure he’s learned a whole plethora of new and interesting words to describe various nationalities in the Army!

    vimto
    Member

    There are lots of Jocks, Taffs and Scousers in the army … surely only in the lower ranks? 😉

    sv
    Member

    What about calling a British National a Brit – offensive/racist?

    IanMunro
    Member

    Do you find the term Brit offensive?

    RudeBoy
    Member

    LOL! Miketually; thank you! Class!

    I agree, it has been blown out of proportion, but a (supposed) member of the Royal Family, using such a term, reveals that there still are some pretty backward attitudes, and that ignorance is rife even amongst the privileged classes.

    Personally, I’m glad I live in a country where such behaviour is increasingly rare. And that this particular incident isn’t being brushed under the carpet, but being analysed and debated. Hopefully not for too long, though, as I’m going to get bored quite soon.

    I do feel some of the people coming out and being ‘offended’ are using the whole affair as a way of getting publicity/exposure for themselves, though. ‘Ooh, look, I’m all offended! I’m a victim!’

    There are serious implications of this, for sure. That Harry didn’t think his use of this word was unacceptable, points toward the fact that racist and phobic behaviour still needs addressing. There is always a need to educate and enlighten people. And that people everywhere, should perhaps make a little more effort, to understand one another.

    But to me, it’s just some thicky toff, being a knob-head.

    coffeeking
    Member

    I think this sort of points towards the whole stupidity of claiming words are offensive – they’re not. Its the intent with which they are used that is offensive. To be racist surely it needs to disadvantage or be discriminatory in some way, rather than just be a name. If it were used to cause mental anguish, or somehow make the person seem less valuable then fine, thats racist:
    “he’s only a paki, send him into the bullets first”
    but thats totally different to here’s bob, our ginger mate.

    The problem is that distinguishing between racism and just using certain words is hard, so people assume that anyone using a certain word is racist, but I think thats a cop-out as its the easy route. As sv says, I dont mind being called a brit, or a limey etc – I AM one, and proud of it.

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    well put coffeking.

    only problem is it assumes a level of intelligence in society (that it can distinguish betweent eh words and the intent) that is inevitably lacking. Got to have moral guidance for the lowest common deonominator unfortunately…. 🙄

    skidartist
    Member

    Words only mean what you mean when you say them.

    But in answer to the original question… I’m inclined to think: An Idiot in the company of racists.

    RudeBoy
    Member

    sv, not really comparable. The term ‘Brit’ has never really been seen as offensive, whereas Paki has a legacy of nastiness.

    One day, maybe calling a person from Pakistan a Paki won’t be seen as at all racist, but that day is not yet. Same as the word Nigger (which in itself, just means a black person), won’t be in common parlance in anything like a friendly and positive manner, for a long time, if ever.

    And what is acceptable between friends is totally different to what’s acceptable in other social situations.

    I wouldn’t call someone a Taffy, Jock, Mick, Spic, Dago, Wop, Chink, or whatever, if I thought the person wasn’t completely comfortable with it. in fact, I’d rather call them by their name, tbh. Nicknames are a bit childish, really, especially ones that relate to race, tribe, religion, etc.

    Problem with things like this, is that someone starts it off, often not really meaning any harm, and the ‘victim’ just thinks ‘oh, sod it, just go along with it, for a quiet life’. Doesn’t necessarily mean they are completely comfortable about it.

    I don’t see how someone’s colour or creed is relevant, really. Call someone ‘Crashy’, because they crash a lot, that makes more sense. But I do have a mate, Scottish Kev (self explanatory). I’ve asked him if he minds, and he’s actually quite proud of it. ‘Nae, dinnae worry, eh? Ah’m proud te be Scottish, and it helps me stand out amongst ye English bastards’.

    Banter, Abuse. Fine line, sometimes.

    lobby_dosser
    Member

    he should be suspended then DNA’d before being allowed to re-apply for his position.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    CaptainF – You’re not really that naive, I’m sure.

    Coffeeking – Very well put.

    I’m not saying Harry’s likely to be on the next leaked BNP list or anything, he’s just the thin end of the wedge – with the BNP list being the other end.

    It’s interesting for me in that the word “paki” is really similar to that Swastika he wore before – both have been co-opted by one point of view and both have become so loaded with meaning that to wear or say them (even “ironically”) shows an insensitivity to cultural meanings which could be called racist.

    Miketually – Fail to see your point. Is “Ramjam” a racist term I’m unfamiliar with?

    richc
    Member

    looked like slow news day bollocks you distract the muppets from the slaughter of the Palestinians, by our *allies* against terror.

    I don’t like the blokes public image, however it was from 3 years ago, and he has said sorry, so that should be enough.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Slow news day, my arse.

    Strongest domestic news story of 2009 so far.

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    Strongest domestic news story of 2009 so far.

    funniest post of the year so far…

    coffeeking
    Member

    The term ‘Brit’ has never really been seen as offensive, whereas Paki has a legacy of nastiness.

    True, a fair point, but how far do you take it. Black has also been linked to nastiness. Ginger has. We’re ruling out whole swathes of dictionary because someone else at some point used them offensively.

    Problem with things like this, is that someone starts it off, often not really meaning any harm, and the ‘victim’ just thinks ‘oh, sod it, just go along with it, for a quiet life’. Doesn’t necessarily mean they are completely comfortable about it.

    While that can happen, I’d be willing to be in most circumstances its not the case.

    As seen here, a large selection of people call the prince a “toff” and “upper class”. Considering they are both used as negative terms in todays society, yet they are things that (like people with coloured skin) he cant change. That makes anyone calling him that (especially those in this thread who are intending it unpleasantly) equivalent to racists – class-ist, as it were. Just because its not his race in question doesnt make it any less offensive if used in that manner. I think some people should look closely at their own views!

    But I do have a mate, Scottish Kev (self explanatory). I’ve asked him if he minds, and he’s actually quite proud of it. ‘Nae, dinnae worry, eh? Ah’m proud te be Scottish, and it helps me stand out amongst ye English bastards’.

    As an Englishman living in Scotland I can honestly say the same, I dont mind being pointed out as the “English bastard”, because I know they dont mean it unpleasantly and they invited me out for a drink! But then I’ve been served by a nice person in Tesco who was perfectly nice until I spoke (in my obviously English accent) and his manner changed completely, despite never using any words – that I found infuriating.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    It is surely something of a small triumph that we all recognise that the word is as least racist in overtone, and that from all sides he’s being rounded upon as an idiot for using it. It wasn’t that long ago it wouldn’t have been at all remarkable or newsworthy.

    stumpy01
    Member

    I think it’s been blown out of all proportion, and the video in question has been taken out of context.

    I grew up in an area where being white put me firmly in the minority (180 people in my yr at school, with only about 20 white people) and so had plenty of ‘ethnic minority (majority)’ friends.
    One guy in particular used to come out to the pub with us and regularly describe himself as nigger and would joke about it. He would often say that we were taking the p*ss out of him just because he was the only black guy there etc. but it was all in a friendly, among mates kind of way.

    One thing I did notice at are school was that racist tensions were almost always greatests between blacks and asians and Hindus and Seikhs.

    The only concerning thing about the video is that it appears the guy he was calling a Paki was asleep at the time so you can’t see his reaction and you have to take it from reports that this was an ‘affectionate’ name for the guy rather than see his reaction had he been awake.

    RudeBoy
    Member

    While that can happen, I’d be willing to be in most circumstances its not the case

    Having been in this situation myself, and knowing many others that have, too, I can say that it often is the case.

    Being a ‘Minority’ in a situation can be uncomfortable enough. But when someone addresses you, in a manner to make you feel uncomfortable, and others follow, that can be pretty unpleasant. I’ve worked in places where people have gone ‘Oi, Abdul (not my name, but a generic ‘Paki’ name to thick ****), or ‘ear, you, yer Paki’, and believe me, it isn’t nice. Then, they’ll come up to you, with ‘ah, I’m only joking with you, mate’, and you are then expected to accept it. ‘S’only a joke, innit?’

    Not very funny, when you get it all day. I never stayed long, in places like that.

    But I learned to understand it as other, insecure people, needing somoene else to project their insecurities onto. So they choose the easiest target, in my case, the only ‘Paki’ in the the workplace.

    So, it don’t bother me now, as I’ve said, I just find such behaviour sad. And I’m now in a situation where I don’t encounter such ignorance. Much better.

    coffeeking
    Member

    The only concerning thing about the video is that it appears the guy he was calling a Paki was asleep at the time so you can’t see his reaction and you have to take it from reports that this was an ‘affectionate’ name for the guy rather than see his reaction had he been awake.

    Must admit I did wonder about that myself.

    Cooroo
    Member

    Anyone actually watched the video?

    It’s not a word I’d use but I’m not so naive I don’t realise that lots of people do, either offensively or inoffensively.

    I’m not really interested in the royal family, would be just as happy not to have one personally. But he actually came over as not a bad bloke – the joke phone call to his grandmother, for instance.

    If I thought he’d intentionally endanger a fellow soldier because of his race, I’d be the first to demand action. But what these guys go through together (not just royal ones, even more so the squaddies) I don’t think leaves much room for petty racism.

    Skid-Mark
    Member

    In a land far far away, i was once a soldier. When I joined as a 20 year old I did not realize what institutional racism was, but I am sad to say that it had an effect on me, to such a point that during my 4 yrs I used the “P” word. It saddens me to say that, but the system demanded conformity, which I dully complied with. I had a truely fantastic time in army and would encourage any adveturous spirited individuals to think about joining. However on the institutional racisum point, I clearly showed naivity and am thankful that I was able to change my values.

    As for Harry, he is demonstrating nothing more than a mirror to the environment from which he has come. What views he wishes to embrace as he matures is anyone’s guess. Lets hope, in his own way he will be as understanding as RudeBoy,

    Skiddie

    vimto
    Member

    Watched the video on news of world site … and he also comments to one person that they look ” like a f***ing raghead” . Nice use of paki and raghead, sure that will come in useful when he is representing Britain. As we are all subjects of the royal family, it would be good if they actually brought them in an environment that represented the majority of the UK residents, rather than some rarified boarding school reserved for the upper echelons of the UK establishment,

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    A couple of thoughts occur to me on this…

    1) Has the “victim” of this racist attack spoken up about his view of the case, or is everyone getting their knickers in a twist on his behalf without his sayso?

    2) If said “victim” was shocked/traumatised etc by the incident, why didn’t he complain at the time and

    3) Assuming he is now serving in the Pakistani army, how on earth is he coping with the real stresses of fighting the Taliban up in the mountains?

    I suspect that this non-story has come about because:

    a) Young, famous, privileged young man makes a fool of himself in the past (Nazi costume, drinking binges etc)

    b) The gutter press decide to watch out for him so they can have another go

    c) Said young man goes through Army training, comes out the other side a much better person, and goes off to serve his country with distinction and more courage than most of us have done, depriving the gutter press of their target

    d) Some scroat sends in teh 3 year old video so the vendetta against him can be started again.

    He was young and foolish, but appears to have grown out of it.

    Anyone got a video of him being call “ginger nut” by fellow cadets they want to sell to redress the balance?

    IanMunro
    Member

    it would be good if they actually brought them in an environment that represented the majority of the UK residents, rather than some rarified boarding school reserved for the upper echelons of the UK establishment

    /Shuuders. The last thing i’d want representing the UK would be someone brought up on a diet of x-factor and big brother.

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