I have a job interview tomorrow that i’m quietly optimistic about (I know – pride comes before a fall etc etc). There is a bit of a dilemma though: my current job is easy, flexible, stress free, secure, well paid, close to home (l commute on the bike 10miles each way almost every day) and I’m effectively my own boss due to my actual boss being based in another country – i’m the sole person doing my type of job (design) in our UK operation. The problem is my current job has become dull, there is very little interest or support in/for my work; colleagues have about as much enthusiasm for work/life as a wet fart and l am, for the majority of my time, bored out of my tree. Unless I’m challenged in work (and enjoy working with the people l work with) l tend to get depressed and grumpy, so have been looking elsewhere for some time.

A new job has come up that should promise better money, a challenging environment; more sociable and enthusiastic staff; and room for career progression. I’m going to assume the new company may not be quite so flexible/stress free, it is also a bare minimum 21 miles away on the bike so l know for a fact that i’ll have less time at home to see my new family (6month baby), and my travel costs will increase (currently bugger all on the bike, occasional drive).

I’m thinking that if all goes to plan tomorrow, l’m going to have to make a fairly tricky decision about what to do, and as yet i’m thinking that the ‘grass always looks greener on the other side.’ While this current place can make my blood boil with frustration, it is for want of a better term, ‘easy money’. (sorry)

What say the hive mind – anyone out there been in a similar situation?

Don’t underestimate that extra 10 miles each way… it can wear you out, particularly if you’re not sleeping well due to kids.

BUT… it seems pretty clear cut and I’d suggest that all the other positives are going to comfortably outweigh and issues with the commute.

And there may be other commute options – lift sharing, etc so that you can balance out that extra distance.

Good luck 😉

MTFU and go for it.

Your current job fits around the rest of your life better I reckon. Is there any way you can let your boss know how you’re feeling so that he or she could change your role, give you more responsibility, pay you more? Perhaps new job offer might give you leverage in achieving this? With a 6-month old, time is probably your most precious asset at the moment. Sounds a bit “fatherhood is great”-ish, but you’ll never get these first few years back. Best of luck in the interview.

you’ll never get these first few years back

This.

Mine are coming up 5 now and I still look back fondly at the first few years.

But the best thing I did was move within 2 miles of home with my job (previously 30 miles) just before they were born so I hardly ever miss seeing them before and after work.

If you get the new job, can I have the old one?

As tempting as the new job sounds and as easy as it would be to say ‘go for it…regret what you did, not what you didn’t’, I agree with what deadlydarcy says

Your current job fits around the rest of your life better I reckon. Is there any way you can let your boss know how you’re feeling so that he or she could change your role, give you more responsibility, pay you more? Perhaps new job offer might give you leverage in achieving this? With a 6-month old, time is probably your most precious asset at the moment. Sounds a bit “fatherhood is great”-ish, but you’ll never get these first few years back. Best of luck in the interview.

Pretty much exactly what I chose and do now. Don’t regret it.
Could be earning £20K more and working 7-7 everyday and spending my evenings watching box sets on the train home, but I’d only go and buy more crap I don’t need.

Depends how much your work means to you vs. the rest of your life, I took the latter as more important but I know plenty of people who don’t.

Is commuting on the bike every day a must? 21 miles each way, every day, all year round is quite tough.

I do 20 each wat 3-5 days a week and I’m tired, factor in a young family and you’d be shattered.

Hmmm on the flipside you spend a lot of your life at work and if you aren’t enjoying it or getting much out of it and becoming bored or depressed then you are going to jump ship at some point anyway , or worse it could damage your home life. Regarding the travelling is it worth getting a small car (Peugeot 107 or such like) for certain days of the week when you are tired through lack of sleep etc….

Go for the interview anyway , travel the route and see what it’s like, get the interview experience then make a decision….after all(without sounding cruel) you might not get the job mate.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Hmm – some interesting viewpoints regarding work life balance and being around the little one as much as possible. I definitely value my work/life balance – l know and am grateful for the way it is at the moment, so don’t want to throw it away on a punt.

on the flipside you spend a lot of your life at work and if you aren’t enjoying it or getting much out of it and becoming bored or depressed then you are going to jump ship at some point anyway

This. I get really pi$$ed off with the way my company works – lm supposed to do my job well (read, creatively) in an environment that has no provision or desire for it. Most days l go home and while not ‘unhappy’, lve got nothing to talk about, no highlight of the day, nowt (first world moan over, sorry).

Anyways, if all goes well tomorrow ill let you know. If not, well…

anyone out there been in a similar situation?

My situation is almost identical, right down to the job and being the sole designer in the UK. Main difference is I work at home four days a week.

Just over a year back I was offered pretty much my dream job, but it meant moving back to somewhere near Watford to make it commutable (we live on the Isle of Wight and other half has family here). Other half was heavily pregnant and we surmised that the loss of living space / quality of life / friends and family meant that it wasn’t a great time to make the leap.

Still wonder if it was the right decision, but I’m also lucky in that I’m in a good position to make that call.

That said, definitely go for it – you can always turn it down.

I must say.. .you’re not selling this new job to me.

Sounds like a nightmare..

Most days l go home and while not ‘unhappy’, lve got nothing to talk about, no highlight of the day, nowt (first world moan over, sorry).

The highlights to my day don’t involve work and I very, very rarely would talk shop to my wife! And I like my job, I just don’t want to bring it home.

crapknees – Member
What say the hive mind – anyone out there been in a similar situation?

Personally I would not rock the boat to risk it all but that depends on the industry you are in. You will regret it if things do not go accordingly to plan by turning a stable environment into a risky one just because you find it dull. Bear in mind you have a baby so until you can secure something for the baby for a while, you are taking risk at in the wrong climate. Another 2-3 years, yes.

Judging from your current situation you seem to have difficulty in gaining support for your enthusiasm but perhaps you have approached it the wrong way? Don’t blame others for not buying into your ideas just because you think it’s right. Find out the reason for their objection.

If you cannot convince someone at your company to see things your way I doubt you will be able to do so with the other company (established?), perhaps you will be able to change them to your thinking who knows but you can forget about spending time with your family if you succeed.

There will always be jobs around so why hurry? 😯

I get really pi$$ed off with the way my company works – lm supposed to do my job well (read, creatively) in an environment that has no provision or desire for it. Most days l go home and while not ‘unhappy’, lve got nothing to talk about, no highlight of the day, nowt

Make the changes yourself. Do things differently. Go out, find some inspiration, read a book, write a song, go to an art gallery, bungee off a bridge. Wear different coloured socks.

Do something to get yourself out of the rut that you have allowed yourself to get in.

Following on from what DD said, why not look at dropping hours at the current job? I work a four day week and spend that fifth day looking after my kids, I actually find that its increased my motivation at work because I pretty much do my previous work load in four days now. I’m not working longer just my enthusiasm means I work better!

It’s a win win in that sense, work still get the same level of output but I spend less hours in the office. 🙂

I’m facing a similar question (actually over 4 other jobs…they arrived like buses), though I can’t say the current job is especially cushy. For me more money and career advancement are important if I’m going to spend long hours at work.

But the family life risk is the biggest challenge. It’s tough enough as it is and I don;t think Dr North is able to ease up – she’s very all or nothing with work.

There isn’t a right answer to this – you effectively trade one set of problems for another.

Good luck in the interview.

Crapknees – how did it go?

Thought I’d drag this back from the dead:

Well, l didn’t get the original job. But, l’ve got offered another job that’s a bit further away, in a company and with like minded people that l know I’d love to work with. Only thing is, l got a call from them today with a salary proposal from HR.

Its not what they were advertising the job for on the website…

Basically they’ve offered me around £1500 less than what was listed on the online job application. During the interview it was made apparent that the figures were not supposed to be available – but it was, so hey. I’ve been told that they have had to take special measures even to give me the current offer, and l have to admit that l am not fully conversant in certain elements of the role (which i’ll get training for)

I’m waiting for another call, but where do l stand on this? I don’t have the job application form to hand so can only quote approx. figures, but they are definitely offering me less than what l anticipated. My main issue with it is that l’m going from a 10 minute commute, to an hour, so my costs would go through the roof.

Hive mind?

Its not what they were advertising the job for

It’s only their opening offer, you can always negotiate….

You’re already in a job, so in a strong negotiating position. Tell them what you want, that you’d love to take the job but would be unable to do so for their initial offer do to increased travel costs and loss of free time (an extra seven hours a week assuming sensible traffic), and then if they don’t offer it then you’ve lost nothing.

Plus TBH, if they’re going to dick you about before you even start then that’s not a company I’d want to work for. Saying ‘no’ might be doing you a favour.

Thanks for the replies. I’ll wait and see if they come back to me with anything different. I feel greedy asking for more but ultimately its got to be worth it financially. On the other hand l hate where l am – anywhere’s better than this place.

that’s not a company I’d want to work for

Its a Bloody Good Employer™ 😀

Wow. My position sounds very similar to the opening post. Turned down a £45k (yes I know…) payrise at xmas which would have meant working in central London with a 4 hour commute or living away from family. Currently waiting on the salary negotiation for another role which will be more intense/better prospects but worse work/life balance. Its about balancing your key drivers.

At the end of the day it is how much they need to pay you to tempt you to work for them.

Work out what you want / need and stick to it. You don’t have to take the role. Recruiting the right people is hard work and time consuming so if it is the sake of a few k if they really like you I would expect them to increase their offer. If you are borderline, maybe not. And if they already think you are borderline, do you really want to work there?

Negotiate as they said saying you would not have applied at that rate you are in a striong position

1. they want you
2. Recruiting probably costs more than the extra you want
3. Its a negotiation

I would agree with Cougar though and I would negotiate to see how they react

Not being able to pay the wage they advertised the job at and having to get “special permission” to offer less than that is not the most convincing argument I have ever heard and makes me think they are incompetent. I would be reluctant to swap from a simple and secure job to what may be a shambles It clearly means your manager has limited actual power to deliver on promises.

I’ve been in the same situation, in a business sector where the expectation is you keep on wanting promotion etc.. I guess your little ‘un is about 9 months old and I found the balance / needs of home life taking a bigger chunk of my life and what I wanted to do with my time.

I hated my old job and moved, thinking the working life changes would alter everything – in reality, its taken 2 years to get to know folk, to a level where I have relative autonomy.

A commute 1 hour each way, on top of building your career is a big change and be wary about the grass is always greener bit… If they’re that wary about losing you for £1,500, it suggest that there’s a lot of bureacracy going on there, not seeing the wood for the trees in terms of getting the right people.

I’ve turned down promotions and job opportunities since moving jobs again as I really value my time on the bike each week and a new job/role would use up what spare time there is with a young family.

Also – it might not be a factor for you, but when we had our second child, we found it a real bonus having a more flexible and local job, to adapt around having two.

Give it another year or year and half, and I bet you shall get your dream job by then because the economy will “normalise” again so plenty of opportunities then.

I worked out some time ago that if you look at it as a time and motion exercise, you want to be thinking at least £250 per mile further from home, per annum.

fuel will cost you at least 15p least per mile in the car, twice a day, 220ish days a year – so just fuel is going to be sixty odd quid per mile per year – plus wear and tear on the car adds up.

Add in more time away from home, way I see it is that you get paid for being at work, so time devoted to work needs to be allocated and purchased from your ‘real life’ accordingly – 40mph average in the car makes 1.5 minutes per mile, 220 days, each way – 660 minutes – so thats 11 hours a year per mile travelling – multiplied by your hourly rate? at £30k thats an extra £170 a year worth of ‘life’ that you’re losing and needs to be bought back.

so, as I say, time plus fuel plus wear and tear makes every mile away from home worth about £250!

l’m going from a 10 minute commute, to an hour, so my costs would go through the roof.

Extra 50 mins each way is 8 hours a week, or one more day. So not only costing cash but ‘diluting’ your £/hour and costing time.

I have enough flexibility to minimise my 30-45 minute rush hour commute to 25 or less by missing traffic, or miss it completely by working from home. Is that an option? Those hours either side of the day are valuable family time.

Ninfan,

Sorry – l get your point, but not your maths: Lets say l have a return trip of 70miles, 50mpg, one hour each way – how do you get £250 per mile?

Probably a good job its not an accountancy role…

Crapknees – I think what you might not get is the fact that I’m hypothecating (poss the wrong word?) the travelling time to work.

You get paid to spend time away from your family and at work, every hour you spend away from your family has monetary value – you normally sell it to your boss at a certain hourly rate, well, if you are spending an extra two hours a day away from your family, you need to account for it against what you earn – because the alternative is that you’re just spending more hours dedicated to work for no reward,

in your example you would spend fifty hours a week dedicated to your employer (ten of them travelling), but only get paid for forty – if work was next door to home, you would spend 40 hours per week dedicated to work, and no time travelling, you get ten hours of your life and time with your daughter back, so of course you should figure this into your compensation – think of it like overtime, you’re doing ten hours a week of free overtime.

35 miles at 50mpg is about 4.40 each way, or 12.3p per mile fuel only
35miles
twice a day
220 days a year
15,400 miles at 12.3p per mile = £1894, or £54.12 fuel for each of the 35 miles (from home)

plus at two hours travelling per day you lose 440 hours of your lifetime, which since you normally sell to your employer for for (say) £15 per hour (at 30k per year) is worth £6600 (£188.57 per mile)

£242.69 per mile away from home, without accounting for wear and tear – obvs. if your wages are significantly higher or lower, that figure varies – if you were on 60k, then the value of the time you lose doubles, and each mile from work is ‘worth’ £431 per year.

You can look at holidays in a similar way – if the new job has less holidays, you need to figure out what that holiday timewith your family is worth to you at your hourly rate, as if you were selling it to them.

£242.69 per mile away from home

So if my maths isn’t too fubared, and going by that logic, i’d need to look at gaining an extra, hang on… almost £8500 per year to make it worthwhile.

Blimey… 😯

Good job they promote working from home then. Still waiting for a response to be honest. We’ll see.

If I was your boss, and I told you that in future you were going to have to work a six day week, how much extra money would you want from me?

equally, if I was your boss, and you told me you wanted one day off a week to spend more time with your family, how much would you expect me to reduce your wages?

edit – of course if you can pull off working from home two or three days a week it gives you shed loads of time with your family, so what is an extra two hours a day with your wife and kids worth to you?

True, true.

God l hate decisions. Im typing this at the moment in an office where no one has spoken to each other (despite my best efforts) since 8:40 this morning… Im utterly desperate to escape but im weighing that up against the time and (potential) financial loss of moving to another job.

Woe is me… 😉

Here we go:

Turns out the salary shown on the website was for the next wage bracket up from my role – i.e. a managerial role. In fairness, the job application page did mention managerial aspects and lm not mad keen on that prospect, so hey. The company, which is large (very large) has strict banding on wages. I’ve had a good chat with my prospective manager, l understand the ins and outs, and i’m still keen despite potentially not being any better off every month – the prospect of enjoying my days in work instead of just surviving them is ever so slightly tempting.

In order to get over the whole commuting costs thing, the employer has offered 105% of the pay bracket, as opposed to 103% currently offered, plus flexible working, so this may work. Official offer coming on Monday.

Now, what’s the most satisfying way to hand in your notice when no one’s expecting it? 😀

If they’re offering 105% of the pay bracket, where does that leave you for future pay rises?

Though bargaining flexible working is bloody good!

well done 8)

Now, what’s the most satisfying way to hand in your notice when no one’s expecting it?

Politely, with consideration – never burn your bridges.

Well done. Now ask for a car allowance to make up the difference.

Now, what’s the most satisfying way to hand in your notice when no one’s expecting it?

Dear Boss,

I resign.

Love

CrapKnees.

PS. I’m taking all my accrued annual leave and therefore my last day in office was yesterday.