An odd line of argument on this thread - that because you've been screwed over by your employer, then posties should accept being screwed over too. It smacks of jealousy.
Oh, and it's not a monopoly. TNT have a license to deliver letters nationwide. They don't, because it's not profitable.
You lot do really need to get a clear message out though - nobody outside of the business really has a clue what it's all about
+2. I have absolutely no idea what this is about, and I am pretyy well informed. It's a PR disaster for both RM plc and also the CWU, neither of whom has for a minute considered that they are both doing a highly effective job of pulling apart a public service. Both RM and CWU just appear to be squabling like children.
"Both RM and CWU just appear to be squabling like children."
I agree. They should have both agreed to binding arbitration (without pre conditions) from the beginning.
It smacks of jealousy.
it really doesn't.
"it really doesn't."
Just because you've not been able to achieve decent T&Cs for yourself, it doesn't automatically follow that posties should accept the same fate.
An odd line of argument on this thread - that because you've been screwed over by your employer, then posties should accept being screwed over too. It smacks of jealousy.
Not one bit. But you can chose to mistakenly think that way if you like...
Perhaps the ca 3m unemployed who would happily have any job (especially one with such sociable hours) could be perceived to be jealous, but obviously I can't speak for them.
Just because you've not been able to achieve decent T&Cs for yourself, it doesn't automatically follow that posties should accept the same fate.
So, work at your career, and become one of those who makes the Ts & Cs....
Just because you've not been able to achieve decent T&Cs for yourself, it doesn't automatically follow that posties should accept the same fate.
You clearly know more about my own T&Cs than I do. Care to share?
"So, work at your career, and become one of those who makes the Ts & Cs.... "
The law of averages dictates that most people will never be in a position to make their own T&Cs.
The law of averages dictates that most people will never be in a position to make their own T&Cs.
So because of that, you never aspire to getting there, wanting the easy life of a job you can just go home and forget about instead? You then moan when someone who has to make decisions, makes one?
"Perhaps the ca 3m unemployed who would happily have any job (especially one with such sociable hours) could be perceived to be jealous, but obviously I can't speak for them."
What if your boss said "take a pay cut or I'll find someone else to do your job"?
An odd line of argument on this thread - that because you've been screwed over by your employer, then posties should accept being screwed over too. It smacks of jealousy.
Oh, and it's not a monopoly. TNT have a license to deliver letters nationwide. They don't, because it's not profitable
What if your boss said "take a pay cut or I'll find someone else to do your job"?
Funny you should say that, it's looking like I'll have a 25% pay cut in my next post...
"So because of that, you never aspire to getting there, wanting the easy life of a job you can just go home and forget about instead? You then moan when someone who has to make decisions, makes one?"
It depends if the decision is fair. There's nothing wrong with wanting to do a job and then go home and forget about it. It's actually how most people in the industrialized world exist.
What if your boss said "take a pay cut or I'll find someone else to do your job"?
I'd get a different job.
"Funny you should say that, it's looking like I'll have a 25% pay cut in my next post... "
And if you were in a position to prevent that happening, what would you do?
There's nothing wrong with wanting to do a job and then go home and forget about it. It's actually how most people in the industrialized world exist.
I agree, but I fail to see the sense in getting 'your own back' and 'using the only power they have' when it ultimately means RM will lose millions in big businesses who will simply go elsewhere, and not come back. As I said to my last mobile phone company: "what use is a communications company that can't communicate"
"I agree, but I fail to see the sense in getting 'your own back' and 'using the only power they have' when it ultimately means RM will lose millions in big businesses who will simply go elsewhere, and not come back. As I said to my last mobile phone company: "what use is a communications company that can't communicate"
I actually have no idea who's in the right in this particular dispute. But it's perfectly conceivable that the RM management have screwed the posties over big time, and are refusing to budge. In such circumstances, the union doesn't have much option but to call a strike. A lot of people seem to forget that you don't get paid when you're on strike, so it's not a decision that's taken lightly.
As I said in an earlier thread, I think that management and the union should have been required to attend independent binding arbitration. My cynical view is that RM management don't want it because the strike is an opportunity to break the union, thus making it more attractive for privatisation.
And if you were in a position to prevent that happening, what would you do?
Accept it as part of the career I chose. I am trying to sort it, but am frankly expecting a 'take it or leave it' response. In addition, I'm obviously looking for a job elsewhere...
"Accept it as part of the career I chose. I am trying to sort it, but am frankly expecting a 'take it or leave it' response. In addition, I'm obviously looking for a job elsewhere..."
Right, and if you had chosen to be a postie, your union would fight your corner.
> And if you were in a position to prevent that happening, what would you do?
As an employee, you are in a position to prevent it happening - just leave. You don't need a Union to decide, based on you personal circumstances, whether the choice/new T's&C's you're being offered is acceptable to you.
The bottom line is I just want someone to deliver my post - I don't care who it is and how they do it. In fact, I don't really give a flying f'ck if there is a postal service or not - I just want to know that if I put a letter in a post box it'll get delivered in a few days. If TNT/Fedex/anybody wants to make a business of doing it, then good luck them. If they have to put prices up to do it then I'll make a decision on whether that rate is acceptable and either use it or not and the business will sink or swim on its own feet.
Either RM stands on it's own feet as a private company, or it's a a prtected public service and the workforce is prevented from striking, but the half baked pile of sh!te that it is at the moment is a national embarrassment.
p.s. I hope you find another job and tell your current lot to shove it!
"As an employee, you are in a position to prevent it happening - just leave."
That assumes that you can find another job.
Yes, it does, but if you find those terms unacceptable and terms that you would find acceptable means the company folds then you're looking for new job either way.
"Yes, it does, but if you find those terms unacceptable and terms that you would find acceptable means the company folds then you're looking for new job either way."
The Royal Mail makes a profit.
Right, and if you had chosen to be a postie, your union would fight your corner.
Indeed it would, and as the people who are unionised here went on strike a while back were also those who are least productive and most resistant to the very necessary changes, no surprises who got the chop in the last round of redundancies. In the posties' case, I'd be quite concerned that the strikes have only served to seriously weaken RM's financial position further. Not a productive thing to be doing when the mean reasons being cited for modernisation and job cuts are of a fiscal base.
And thanks for the nod of good luck - the job i've been asked to apply for is a 40% rise. Slight catch is it's in Adelaide...
Not enough profit, by a long shot, surely, for the business to be sustainable in the long term. The amount of money that needs to be put into the pension pot is incompatible with the money needed to invest in the long term future of the business, versus the profit it can reasonably generate in it current form. I have no numbers to go with this, but my understanding fromt he media reports is the pesnion black hole is such a millstone that no private company will be interested in wholly buying RM unless the goverment addresses this in cold, hard cash - which is seems unwilling to do.
The Royal Mail makes a profit.
But eventually someone will have to plug that pensions hole.
Frankly I'd be pissed that the government allowed most of the profitable work to go to private companies whilst still forcing them to carry out a loss-making service to every address. Surely that's the problem underneath it all, or have I really shown my ignorance on this one?
"Indeed it would, and as the people who are unionised here went on strike a while back were also those who are least productive and most resistant to the very necessary changes, no surprises who got the chop in the last round of redundancies"
But it doesn't follow that all union members are lazy. Neither of us are in a position to make a judgement in the case of RM, but I maintain that it's conceivable that the strike was the only option left to the posties.
As I said before, I do think that binding arbitration is the way to go. In that case, a unionised workforce is a real benefit to management, as they can reach a deal for everyone through collective bargaining.
"But eventually someone will have to plug that pensions hole.
Frankly I'd be pissed that the government allowed most of the profitable work to go to private companies whilst still forcing them to carry out a loss-making service to every address. Surely that's the problem underneath it all, or have I really shown my ignorance on this one? "
I think the pension hole exists because they took a pensions holiday when it was in surplus. Something we have to thank Thatcher for...
As for your second point - yes, private companies can cherry pick the most profitable bits to compete against. I've always thought that RM operates with one hand tied behind its back. It's a wonder that it turns any profit at all.
But it doesn't follow that all union members are lazy. Neither of us are in a position to make a judgement in the case of RM, but I maintain that it's conceivable that the strike was the only option left to the posties.
Granted, but if continued industrial action causes RM to fold, be it now or in a couple of years, all the posties will have a much bigger problem. I agree with you on binding arbitration though...
"Granted, but if continued industrial action causes RM to fold, be it now or in a couple of years, all the posties will have a much bigger problem."
True. It's something that RM management ought to remember, too.
As for your second point - yes, private companies can cherry pick the most profitable bits to compete against. I've always thought that RM operates with one hand tied behind its back. It's a wonder that it turns any profit at all.
Agreed. I'm not sure forcing what little profitable work RM still has away from it is the answer though, even if it is the only option available to the staff...
True. It's something that RM management ought to remember, too.
Indeed, although all the strike action will do is make the better managers to see said writing on the wall, and they'll use their nous to jump ship and find better employment; thereby exacerbating the situation.
"Indeed, although all the strike action will do is make the better managers to see said writing on the wall, and they'll use their nous to jump ship and find better employment; thereby exacerbating the situation."
An analogy: my employer has relocated a large number of staff from several offices, into one large office in a particularly unattractive location. It's all in the name of efficiency. Yu'll not be surprised to learn that everyone is trying to leave, so we'll be left with the dross who couldn't find anything else, and hence work will be done less efficiently. But have senior management considered this? Have they hell.
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